Updating Talon Rally Car Thread

[dets]

Hey everyone. I've got an 90 Eagle Talon TSI AWD 2.0 4g63 Engine that i'm currently updating for the rally season this year. Although i'm late and won't be competing towards a championship this year, i'm going to be running this Talon a couple of times to test its strength. There are other Talon Rally cars out there driven by a couple of good independant teams, but i've never seen any real modifications done to any of those vehicles that i plan.

Mainly because certain Talon's don't want to compete in the Open Class with WRX's and Evolutions. I do, on the other hand, and i'm in desperate need of some help.

Below are some pictures of the car now. I'll be returning to my garage in 2 days where i can snap some more pictures of the engine and give you a more detailed view of what my car looks like.

I have a good understanding of the Talon and have already performed some upgrades to the car.

What it has now:

3" turbo back exhaust
stock turbo
Upper intercooler pipe with GReddy BOV (by pass valve was there, but its currently dismantaled because i've got the MAF on the way.)
Accela Wires
Boost gauge
Master Cut off switch
Power slotted front / Cross drilled rear rotors.
GAB Struts w/ eibach springs
racing seats
5 point harness
steel skid plates
Full FIA Rally spec roll cage
Some seam welds.


Thats basically it. I'm in rochester with my significant other till wednesday but the day i get back, i'm starting to upgrade the car again.

I'd like to keep this thread open as a commentary thread, an educational thread, and sort of an E - Journal of how the car got to where it is.

Below are pictures of the car as it is right now. I'll post pictures of the engine and the progress i'm making on with installing the mods.



If any has any suggestions on:

Engine Reliability
- I heard from some other talon guys that it was wise to remove the oil balancer. checked in my haynes and i couldn't find it. Any suggestions?




Mods: let me know if this is ok. or move it if you think it belongs elsewhere. thanks

 

[dets]

also, i plan on modifiing the car first for complete reliability before i shoot for performance.

I'm upgrading to a GM MAF for air and i'm not sure whether or not to for with an afc, mega squirt or just a complete stand alone for fuel.

The suspension is worked an the brakes are fine, my only main concern is keeping the engine cool.

Any suggestions on reliability?

 

[mitsugsx95]

Im not sure if the GAB shocks are adjustable, but i would have gone with a fully adjustable shock (tein, tokico, etc) so you can adjust it to match the road conditions.

I think you are refering to the balance shafts. You can take both the front and rear shafts (rear is conn. to oil pump) out and get a eliminator kit, and that will be one less thing you have to worry about breaking. Plus, less rotating mass in the engine makes things more simple/reliable.

 

[dets]

an eliminator kit. sounds nice. any links to where i could find that? brand?


thanks for the info.

 

[mavisky]

seeing as how you're in new jersey i'd give the guys over at www.turbotrix.com a call and i'm sure they'd be more than happy to help you with what you're wanting to do.

 

[mitsugsx95]

an eliminator kit. sounds nice. any links to where i could find that? brand?


thanks for the info.

Id check out the sponsor section up top. Almost all of them sell the elim kit.

If you were looking in the Haynes manual, i beleive they call them silent shafts.

 

[dets]

seeing as how you're in new jersey i'd give the guys over at www.turbotrix.com a call and i'm sure they'd be more than happy to help you with what you're wanting to do.

i've heard of them, they've got a great reputation. But for my situation, it doesn't pay to go to a shop. I've got a great understanding of this car so far and i can't afford to spend money on labor, just parts. A couple of members of my team work in different areas of automotives, so our acess to wholesale parts is available.

I know i could learn alot from you guys on this website so when i get back on tuesday (or wednesday) i'm going to post pics of the engine and the progress i've been making.

Thanks for the help.

 

[dls93tsi]

get an elim kit off ebay. it cost me 20 bucks and had everything all the other kits have

 

[ChicagoGSX]

I would upgrade the clutch and maybe beef up the tranny as well.

 

[kpt4321]

get an elim kit off ebay. it cost me 20 bucks and had everything all the other kits have

Don't get it on E-Bay, just buy the parts from the dealer.

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/balance-shafts.html

 

[kpt4321]

3" turbo back exhaust
stock turbo
Upper intercooler pipe with GReddy BOV (by pass valve was there, but its currently dismantaled because i've got the MAF on the way.)
Accela Wires
Boost gauge
Master Cut off switch
Power slotted front / Cross drilled rear rotors.
GAB Struts w/ eibach springs
racing seats
5 point harness
steel skid plates
Full FIA Rally spec roll cage
Some seam welds.

You should dump the cross-drilled rotors, before they crack and you crash, and possibly hurt yourself.

You don't need an aftermarket BOV, the stock 1g BOV wil do just fine. If you already own it, then, well... whatever.

You need to make sure that the BOV is not venting to atmosphere.

NGK wires are probably your best bet if you need to buy wires again.

The goal should be to run more boost, to make more power. That means it's time to buy fuel system upgrades like a fuel pump, injectors, and fuel control.

 

[kpt4321]

I'm upgrading to a GM MAF for air and i'm not sure whether or not to for with an afc, mega squirt or just a complete stand alone for fuel.

The MAFT will do as much tuning as a SAFC will do, so don't wory about that.

A megasquirt is not what you want, because that will only control fuel.

I don't think you are ready for a full standalone yet, not with your mod level.

You can also considering modified stock chips, either DIY or from somewhere like dsmchips.com.

 

[dets]

The MAFT will do as much tuning as a SAFC will do, so don't wory about that.

A megasquirt is not what you want, because that will only control fuel.

I don't think you are ready for a full standalone yet, not with your mod level.

You can also considering modified stock chips, either DIY or from somewhere like dsmchips.com.

ll be browsing those links you gave me, thanks.

i'll crawl before i walk on this one. i'll leave the stand alone for later.



Oh and by the way, those mods are already on the car. the list of things i plan to put on it isn't posted yet, but my goals are for basic realiability.

i was going to wait to post pictures of the engine before i posted my goals, but would you like to hear them anyway?


edit: i just check DSM chips and it reccomends the use of an AFC. since i'm already logging and got my MAF, could you recommend a fuel controller? I will something that will allow me set and load maps for different stage settings.

 

[kpt4321]

Setting, saving, and loading fuel maps is something you can't usually do, without something like a standalone or DSMLink.

However, I don't know why you would need to do that. Tune it once, it will be fine.

If you have a MAFT, you don't need a SAFC.

 

[mitsugsx95]

The only reason I can see why you would need adjustable fuel maps is if you plan on doing mountain rally, where you need to adjust depending on the atltitude your at.

 

[polishshark]

can you post some more pics?

thx
andrzej

 

[dets]

tommorow i can post pics. My girlfriend is finishing her academic responsiblities and i can finally return home.

Tommorow i'll be posting pics of the every mechanical moving piece on this car.

 

[Zenja]

I think the new MAFT can tune fuel in increments of 1% (or near there), so it should be good enough for tuning.

 

[dets]

ok. i got back. I don't have my camera handy just yet, but i'll let you know what we did yesterday.


Dropped intercooler, cleaned it with gas, its was filthy. Didn't take long though for the gas to start coming out clear.

Put back the stock mas and broke the wires on two injector harness. You know, the wires right above the electrical connectors on the injectors? those.

We dropped the exhaust and it was slightly pinched from behind the last part of the skid plate from the last race. Any suggestions on what the best procedure is to repair it? I was thinking of going back to brooklyn and oxy-acyt. weld it, but i'd like some feedback first.

Going to the junk yard today to get the 2 harness's i broke, front 94' calipers, and a pump steering fluid jar. This car has its wear an tear but its all coming together. Going to try to re- upholster the seats also. I'll post pics of everything later on tonight.

Sorry i'm getting back so late online. My internet wasn't working for the past two days. I'll be updating again later tonight.

 

[dets]

The only reason I can see why you would need adjustable fuel maps is if you plan on doing mountain rally, where you need to adjust depending on the atltitude your at.

which is mainly the reason that i wanted differenet maps. But considering the new MAFT 2.0 is so versitle, i think i may be able to accomplish the same using it with my pocket logger.

 

[mitsugsx95]

I dont know if your still running the 14b, but I would probly upgrade to a 16g. You want more power if your going to be doing brutal courses and uphill runs, but at the same time keep your low end spool and power.

Also, try and run the short route ic piping to help with the low end power.

 

[kpt4321]

The only reason I can see why you would need adjustable fuel maps is if you plan on doing mountain rally, where you need to adjust depending on the atltitude your at.

The ECU already will automatically adjust for this, really. There would only be minor changes needed.

 

[polishshark]

where did you get that roll cage and how much was it?

thx

andrzej

 

[dls93tsi]

http://www.dsmparts.com/customer/product.php?productid=279&cat=144&page=1

this isnt rally spec, but its a good base to expand on. I would probably use that as a base and just keep going with it to make a full cage...

 

[dets]

Whew, sorry i haven't been able to get my F***kin camera so i won't be able to post pics but i'll update with the work i've done.


Took out ECU, inspected it. No eprom so no chip. :thumbdown:

Re-painted the interior and took out the race seats for re-upholstery.

Did the Cold Air Intake mod by taking out the front light. Came out nice.

Dropped the exhaust, it has a bend under the last part of the skid plate. No good. From 3" to about 1 and 3/4. Took it back to the shop to re-weld and mandrel bend the exhaust back to its proper form.

Inspected front calipers, they are no good. For the stopping distance i want, i'm upgrading to the 93 AWD calipers and front power slot rotors. I ordered them already.

Remounted the battery and boost gauge using a custom bracket that i made for the front console.

Ordered a fuel and oil pressure gauge from autometer and a A-Pillar gauge pod.

Wired the front A/C fan to turn on with the stock fan. I have no A/C compressor so i wasn't going to take out the fan also. I have two fans. I'm considering changing to slimline fans.

Considering ordering an FMIC. Considering HKS Cams and Pulley sets.



Also, I made the roll cage. ONCE I GET A CAMERA YOU ALL WILL HAVE THE PICS YOU"VE BEEN WAITING FOR. Or at least i get to show you wtf i've been talking about this entire time, sheesh. This is starting to get irratating.


Oh well. I'll be in PA this weekend for STPR. Its a rally that is supposed to be one of the best of the year.