420A Twin Turbo a 420a

[Sullbren17]

So i posted some post awhile ago and i was told that you can not twin turbo a 420a but i was also reading that you can run a compound twin turbo set up with using a smaller turbo to spoil up a larger turbo ? and also if you put a turbo on the larger injectors are for air fuel ratio because of the amount of air in the cylinders and lack of fuel?

http://www.atsdiesel.com/ats2/templates/template_06.asp?p=2029422272&c=36

 

[grothe3297venge]

I think you need to do a little more research on the difference between twin charged and compound turbo's. This question to me is kind of like when your parents say, "think before you open your damn mouth" type of saying. There is no real point to twin charging a 4 cylinder. Hence why you haven't seen it done already. Compound turbo's would really be the only benefit, but judging your lack of knowledge, this is one thing you should stear clear of.

I know you are just "asking", but really we have gone over this question with you before when you said you wanted to twin charge your car. Do you remember what everyone said/did? Also I HIGHLY doubt you could afford to do said work even if it were possible. Sorry if this was a tad harsh, but literally everything you seem to ask is either way out in left field, or you are just seeking for information because some said so and so.

To me, you basically have a blatant disregard to anything people say, and you don't seem to want to retain information that is on this website.. Which is basically the tested and proven paths of many upgrades for years.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Lol +1

Twincharge a 420a....
I also find it funny this is in the build journal section.

 

[Sullbren17]

i ment to put it on newbie...

 

[PANDARESCUE]

just because something can be done with enough money doesnt make it wise although there have been compound setups on 4g63's that white 2g this last year at the shootout had a compound holset setup on it and that bi*** went like a raped ape i think that it was a stm car why not worry about getting a something like a 14b on that motor first

 

[TurboLaserRS]

The larger injectors are part of the equation when going forced induction. The increase in air being stuffed into the cylinders is going to need to be compensated for with fuel. It is much more complex than that of course, and two turbos is going to be even harder to tune for than one. You will need something to tune the car with when you go forced induction whether it's single or twins though. By the fact you're asking a question such as this, I would highly suggest some more research on your part. As alluded to above, there have been a couple of twin builds so far, but none that I know of on a 420A. Turbocharging a factory NT car is a difficult task, and what you're talking about is going to take a LOT of fabrication. What you're talking about is possible- But I hope you have an almost endless supply of money.
Good luck.

 

[Sullbren17]

i dont want to even attempt to twin turbo just reasearch doesnt really make sense to me.

 

[TurboLaserRS]

What doesn't make sense? As far as I know, there isn't anyone that's done a TT setup on a 420A (on this forum). You're talking about basically 100% custom fabrication. It's the same as going from NT to Turbo, but with the added complexity of two turbos, wastegates, pipe routing, etc.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

So i posted some post awhile ago and i was told that you can not twin turbo a 420a but i was also reading that you can run a compound twin turbo set up with using a smaller turbo to spoil up a larger turbo ? and also if you put a turbo on the larger injectors are for air fuel ratio because of the amount of air in the cylinders and lack of fuel?

http://www.atsdiesel.com/ats2/templates/template_06.asp?p=2029422272&c=36

There is abig lack of knowledge here. You are a good year or a, couple years from doing this yourself.

 

[gabytech]

Seriously a TT 420A ???? Oh boy, some people need to stay away from performance cars... From time to time always a new kid in the block usually a high school kid comes out with something that makes me LMFAO !!!!!

 

[phunny]

I'd love to see someone built a compound turbo 420, and I was MISLEAD by the title :/

 

[mr2krazee]

why not worry about getting a something like a 14b on that motor first

+1! go fast the cheap/easy way first! i do understand wanting to be different by having a unique build, but as others said you should research this topic further and gain more of an understanding of the point in it before seeking input on it from others. think about this: you usually see engines with 2 heads and 2 exhaust manifolds that run 2 turbos right? go out and look at your 420a, you'll notice a single head and exhaust manifold... see where im going with this?? remember that turbos are exhaust driven, which is where the difference comes in when planning to run compund twin turbos on a 420a (or any 4 cylinder engine) thus making it far more time/$$$$ consuming which is why you dont see many.

hope that helps you.

 

[blindboarder_02]

This kid is just looking for information and facts. Not criticism.

I would start by getting yourself familiar with how the engine works. Grab a couple tech school books on engine mathematics and advanced engine performance. Start there.

READ READ READ and when you think you've covered it all - READ AGAIN.

 

[gabytech]

This kid is just looking for information and facts. Not criticism.

I would start by getting yourself familiar with how the engine works. Grab a couple tech school books on engine mathematics and advanced engine performance. Start there.

READ READ READ and when you think you've covered it all - READ AGAIN.

That's exactly whats wrong with diy weekend gearheads with NO knowledge. They think they can rebuild an engine or make engine parts combinations just because they can do an oil change and a brake job. Before you get in the performance game, you 1st need to understand the fundaments of a vehicle and how an engine works and its systems works. If you think the pistons are moved up and down by the conrods and crankshaft, you need to rethink your performance skills.

 

[Sullbren17]

I don't think its complete lack of knowledge because i understand the 2 manifolds, the 2 heads, and the 2 turbos. I understand the basics of how a turbo works i know how a combustion engine works, i know how a rotary engine work, i understand with a turbo that you put it on your manifold, and the exhaust spins a turbine that is on a shaft that turns another turbine to draw in air to force it in your intake. The injectors I don't understand quite right here because you use bigger injectors so it can stand up to more pressure to add more fuel to your cylinders. but when you have a turbo and you don't upgrade your injectors you have to much air in the mixture? that is the question. I understand that a engine sends out a pulse of exhaust and i'm not sure but from what i think when the turbo spoils it pushes enough exhaust to send that pulse at a good constant rate without a pause to spoil the turbo(I really don't know how to word that) which is why if you have this compound turbo set up then you can run more boost with 2 turbos and have more horse power?

 

[jayson427]

I don't think its complete lack of knowledge because i understand the 2 manifolds, the 2 heads, and the 2 turbos. I understand the basics of how a turbo works i know how a combustion engine works, i know how a rotary engine work, i understand with a turbo that you put it on your manifold, and the exhaust spins a turbine that is on a shaft that turns another turbine to draw in air to force it in your intake. The injectors I don't understand quite right here because you use bigger injectors so it can stand up to more pressure to add more fuel to your cylinders. but when you have a turbo and you don't upgrade your injectors you have to much air in the mixture? that is the question. I understand that a engine sends out a pulse of exhaust and i'm not sure but from what i think when the turbo spoils it pushes enough exhaust to send that pulse at a good constant rate without a pause to spoil the turbo(I really don't know how to word that) which is why if you have this compound turbo set up then you can run more boost with 2 turbos and have more horse power?

just so you know no one is saying your ignorant but when something like this is asked you should be prepared to get bashed a little bit. for one a twin turbo set up requires two sets of headers. which our car has only one so there is no way to twin turbo a 420a. but you can do a compound or sequential turbo set up. there is only one guy i know of that has this on a 420a. he actually holds the record for the most HP on a 420a last time i checked. look up dsm zero or youtube 661 horse power eclipse. you do have alot to read tho. you can understand how things work in a literal sense by reading but actually understanding it down to a science takes alot of time.

for your kind of question you have, if you dont have enough fuel on a turbo set up and you run it hard you get detenation which destroys engines.

 

[mr2krazee]

I don't think its complete lack of knowledge because i understand the 2 manifolds, the 2 heads, and the 2 turbos. I understand the basics of how a turbo works i know how a combustion engine works, i know how a rotary engine work, i understand with a turbo that you put it on your manifold, and the exhaust spins a turbine that is on a shaft that turns another turbine to draw in air to force it in your intake. The injectors I don't understand quite right here because you use bigger injectors so it can stand up to more pressure to add more fuel to your cylinders. but when you have a turbo and you don't upgrade your injectors you have to much air in the mixture? that is the question. I understand that a engine sends out a pulse of exhaust and i'm not sure but from what i think when the turbo spoils it pushes enough exhaust to send that pulse at a good constant rate without a pause to spoil the turbo(I really don't know how to word that) which is why if you have this compound turbo set up then you can run more boost with 2 turbos and have more horse power?

no there is not more air in the mixture when you boost with a turbo. there is only more in the mixture if you raise the boost level. the reason for the bigger injectors is to compensate for the extra air being compressed by the turbo when running higher boost, if there is too much air from too much boost this is referred ton as a lean condition, in which case bigger injectors, a bigger fuel pump (walbro 255lph), adjsutable fuel pressure regulator (AFPR), a data logger, and tuning software or device is required in order to richen the mixture and compensate for the extra boost which prevents detonation along with other potential catastrophic failures. i hope you didnt think i was criticizing you earlier, i was not. but you should do some googling on safe boost levels and proper upgrade paths because those threads will contain valuable info that help explain the basics of performance tuning and engine upgrades.

This kid is just looking for information and facts. Not criticism.

I would start by getting yourself familiar with how the engine works. Grab a couple tech school books on engine mathematics and advanced engine performance. Start there.

READ READ READ and when you think you've covered it all - READ AGAIN.

I agree... big time. besides actual hands on wrench time, READING is the best way to learn.

Tech Guide: 1G 4G63t Upgrades - DSMtuners

go read that, it explains what mods you need and why you need and how much you gain from them, even if you already read it go back and do it again, i glance at this from time to time just for fun because all i think about is modding my cars and it has some good stuff in there

 

[Sullbren17]

I have made a plan for my build. I have the motor out and transmission. Im doing this in order..
>Clean intake, engine grease, gunk on everything.
>Buy gasket set and seals..
>Bore my cylinders, Lap valves, polish and port my intake and exhaust.
>buy new internals, rods, pistons, crank, cams, valves, valve springs and retainers, lifters.
>Replace Oil pump, timing belt, idler, etc...
>New ignition system MSD, MS, Injectors, Replace Broken Sensors,...
> Take A couple days With Time and caution to assemble the engine.
>Do my suspension Pro-thane bushings, Hubs, struts, control arms, ball joints, Break pads, and just maintenance. Engine mount bushings.
>New Clutch
>Take a day to drop my engine in, install MS.
>assemble power steering, turbo, bolt on stuff.
>Finish With my body. sanding, bondo/body filler, primer paint, Acrilic essence paint is what im gonna try to do for.
>Try to find a selvage dsm for interior missing a lot of parts for it. bolts for dash and stereo system. new seats, carpet head liner and gauges.

I know this is going to cost A LOT OF MONEY, but i figure that if i build every thing all at once then the matenice wont be constant and everything will be new. I did look up things like polishing, port matching gaskets, lapping valves, i dont understand the tuning part tho. the 420a is already turbo-d and i have larger injectors and i do have a SFMU I don't think i have a different fuel pump. but I am going to try my hardest to do this project the most caution and time i can take.

 

[gabytech]

I have made a plan for my build. I have the motor out and transmission. Im doing this in order..
>Clean intake, engine grease, gunk on everything.
>Buy gasket set and seals..
>Bore my cylinders, Lap valves, polish and port my intake and exhaust.
>buy new internals, rods, pistons, crank, cams, valves, valve springs and retainers, lifters.
>Replace Oil pump, timing belt, idler, etc...
>New ignition system MSD, MS, Injectors, Replace Broken Sensors,...
> Take A couple days With Time and caution to assemble the engine.
>Do my suspension Pro-thane bushings, Hubs, struts, control arms, ball joints, Break pads, and just maintenance. Engine mount bushings.
>New Clutch
>Take a day to drop my engine in, install MS.
>assemble power steering, turbo, bolt on stuff.
>Finish With my body. sanding, bondo/body filler, primer paint, Acrilic essence paint is what im gonna try to do for.
>Try to find a selvage dsm for interior missing a lot of parts for it. bolts for dash and stereo system. new seats, carpet head liner and gauges.

I know this is going to cost A LOT OF MONEY, but i figure that if i build every thing all at once then the matenice wont be constant and everything will be new. I did look up things like polishing, port matching gaskets, lapping valves, i dont understand the tuning part tho. the 420a is already turbo-d and i have larger injectors and i do have a SFMU I don't think i have a different fuel pump. but I am going to try my hardest to do this project the most caution and time i can take.

Oh BOY, Here it goes... Another future newbie thread about "crankwalk" or "misfire after engine rebuild"......

 

[jayson427]

Oh ohhhh, Here it goes... Another future newbie thread about "crankwalk" or "misfire after engine rebuild"......

we have been hard enough on this dude lets cut some slack and at least get him in the right direction or just dont post. at least he wants to doing everything right and not half ass it.

 

[mr2krazee]

we have been hard enough on this dude lets cut some slack and at least get him in the right direction or just dont post. at least he wants to doing everything right and not half ass it.

Yea really give the dood a break, he may be a noob but isnt that what this place is for? helping noobs grow out of noob status and become knowledgeable gear heads. plus do 420a engines actually walk? i dont think ive heard of it but i could be mistaken. and really that shouldnt cost THAT much money to complete what he listed if he goes to the scrap yards for the interior odds/ends and then just buys a nice complete rebuild kit plus a couple goodies. the porting is something i think you should have done unless you are an actual cylinder head tech or have a very good knowledge of porting, my best friend (hes an mr2 guy and a machinist) went to joe mondellos porting school and learned first hand from the king of porting (R.I.P. he died this winter ) and ive heard horror stories of porting jobs gone wrong by people who arent experienced in it so make sure you know what your doing with that or just pay somebody and get it done so you can rest at night that your boosted 420a head flow is optimal. but hey im glad to see you have a plan and arent just saying hey im going to have a 10 second car because i have a turbo.

 

[gabytech]

we have been hard enough on this dude lets cut some slack and at least get him in the right direction or just dont post. at least he wants to doing everything right and not half ass it.

The right direction is for him to stay with diy oil change and brake jobs atleast for now, and leave the engine rebuild to the ones that do this as a job... 2 thumbs up for the diy wrencheads that want to learn, but I doubt this kid really has the knowledge or skills to do an engine rebuild. First you gotta crawl, then walk, then run... Don't start rebuilding an engine, when you haven't done smaller type of automotive repairs. I can see this going from a diy engine rebuild to a misfire or something to a real automotive tech fixing it. And there goes a diy budget rebuild ending up costing a lot more...

I understand how every gearhead likes to wrench their own car, but unless you got real knowledge or someone who does this everyday helping you, this isn't the diy kind of work... Its one thing to do a small room home repair, its another thing to rebuild a house. Leave to caesars what belongs to caesars.

 

[Sullbren17]

The right direction is for him to stay with diy oil change and brake jobs, and leave the engine rebuild to the ones that do this as a job... 2 thumbs up for the diy wrencheads that want to learn, but I doubt this kid really has the knowledge or skills to do an engine rebuild. First you gotta crawl, then walk, then run... I can see this going from a diy engine rebuild to a misfire or something to a real automotive tech to fix it, and there goes a diy budget rebuild ending up costing a lot more...

So your telling me after the last 2 times i have reassembled this engine that i can not do it and that i do not know anything about the basics of a engine or repair You learn by doing it right or mistakes either way from what i've learned from theses people is hands on and research is what is going to put me in the right place I have people like you that post on her that pretty much call me stupid and that i cant do the job. I know i can do the job and i post these forums to insure my question and answer to make sure the job is done properly you don't know the amount of knowledge I have about this engine and you don't know for a fact that will not succeed. So if your going to tell me to take it to a shop and learn nothing and go away quit posting criticizing bull on my thread.

 

[jayson427]

OP you have a good thought on alot of your build plan which is good. you need to find a really good machine shop that deals with smaller engines. heres a link for 2gnt.com and this will help you out probably the most out of any other thread out there. my only suggestion is keep reading and if you have any questions on aftermarket parts like whats better for what just pm me and ill help you out.

2GNT.com - Power_Stages

 

[mr2krazee]

The right direction is for him to stay with diy oil change and brake jobs, and leave the engine rebuild to the ones that do this as a job... 2 thumbs up for the diy wrencheads that want to learn, but I doubt this kid really has the knowledge or skills to do an engine rebuild. First you gotta crawl, then walk, then run... Don't start rebuilding an engine, when you haven't done smaller type of automotive repairs. I can see this going from a diy engine rebuild to a misfire or something to a real automotive tech to fix it, and there goes a diy budget rebuild ending up costing a lot more...

I understand how every gearhead likes to wrench their own car, but unless you got real knowledge or someone who does this everyday helping you, this isn't the diy kind of work... Its one thing to do a small room home repair, its another thing to rebuild a house. Leave to caesars what belongs to caesars.

i do agree with you somewhat here. like i said earlier about the porting, i think that is something he should have done by a reputable cylinder head shop as he probably is lacking the skills and training required to do a proper port job. as i mentioned earlier my best friend is a machinist who graduated from mondello racing engines porting class, ive been learning the basics from him about porting and soon im going to port my own 4g63 head mondello style (sorry to thread jack here bud) and get my own porting tools and such. porting is a very extensive process requiring great skill for detail and good knowledge of air flow physics at the very least. that is the kind of work he should leave to a specialist, as for the engine rebuild i did my first rebuild on my sw20 MR2 by myself with the opinionated verbal help of a couple gearhead pals and the good old internet, but as was said i already had a very good understanding of engines and mods plus i am an ase certified collision repair tech whos daily work consists of daily wrenching. i plan on getting certified in quite a few of the ase categories (if not eventually all of them over time) for mechanics in the near future as im sick of paint/body and would love to be professional mechanic for a living