420A Twin Turbo a 420a

[gabytech]

So your telling me after the last 2 times i have reassembled this engine that i can not do it and that i do not know anything about the basics of a engine or repair You learn by doing it right or mistakes either way from what i've learned from theses people is hands on and research is what is going to put me in the right place I have people like you that post on her that pretty much call me stupid and that i cant do the job. I know i can do the job and i post these forums to insure my question and answer to make sure the job is done properly you don't know the amount of knowledge I have about this engine and you don't know for a fact that will not succeed. So if your going to tell me to take it to a shop and learn nothing and go away quit posting criticizing bull on my thread.

A real knowledgeable guy wouldn't be coming to a thread asking about twin turbo 4cyl engines or compound turbochargers. Im in NO way trying to bring you down, Im giving you the best advice someone whos been a automotive tech for 10+ years could give you. Unless you know bumper to bumper how an engine really works in all the sense of the word and have done certain type of engine repairs first, I wouldn't recommend anyone to do a diy engine rebuild. Engine rebuild isn't just installing the internal parts and torquing everything to specs, there are other things that come into play and it amazes me how common it is for diy guys to NOT even know about. I hope "So your telling me after the last 2 times i have reassembled this engine that i can not do it" you aren't referring to the exact same engine you going to rebuild, making it the 3rd time.

 

[stracer107]

The porting part of your build should be done by an experienced machist. If you have done port work before leave it to a pro. There is only one shop here in Nebraska I would recamend. Its in Lincoln though. So going to Colorado might be closer for you. Good luck on your build. Hope it works out for you.

 

[Sullbren17]

A real knowledgeable guy wouldn't be coming to a thread asking about twin turbo 4cyl engines or compound turbochargers. Im in NO way trying to bring you down, Im giving you the best advice someone whos been a automotive tech for 10+ years could give you. Unless you know bumper to bumper how an engine really works in all the sense of the word and have done certain type of engine repairs first, I wouldn't recommend anyone to do a diy engine rebuild. Engine rebuild isn't just installing the internal parts and torquing everything to specs, there are other things that come into play and it amazes me how common it is for diy guys to NOT even know about. I hope "So your telling me after the last 2 times i have reassembled this engine that i can not do it" you aren't referring to the exact same engine you going to rebuild, making it the 3rd time.

Yes i bought the car with aftermarket pistons, the first time i spun the rod bearing and i didnt know you had to get your crank fixed and stuff so i just threw new rod bearings on but i didnt know anything about engines like i had no idea that the pistons went straight up and down i was completley oblivious and i did my reasearch on timing, specs, and i put the engine back together the second time the timing belt broke and i took of my head to have it checked by a machine shop and they told me they could lap them and i was stupid and i said no i put a new timing belt on and idler kit but the belt got pinched and it will brek again but i had a knocking noise from something so i decided finally doing a half ass job is not the way to go and i tore the motor out and i put it on a stand in my basement i have to get my block bored and honed and my crank is in bad shape so im going to buy a new crankshaft and new pistons. the machine shop my rods are ok and i can just buy new pistons and do my build path i set up for myself and take it step by step. ive been doing small work for a guy to work on cars like the other day i replaced a fuel tank in a bronco and the clutch. So im working slowly. I dont want to be told to take it to a mechanic thats going to be a bigger moron then any other dick or jane because the mechanic and machine shops here arnt to reliable I sound like a super genius compared to most they guys here.

 

[gabytech]

Yes i bought the car with aftermarket pistons, the first time i spun the rod bearing and i didnt know you had to get your crank fixed and stuff so i just threw new rod bearings on but i didnt know anything about engines like i had no idea that the pistons went straight up and down i was completley oblivious and i did my reasearch on timing, specs, and i put the engine back together the second time the timing belt broke and i took of my head to have it checked by a machine shop and they told me they could lap them and i was stupid and i said no i put a new timing belt on and idler kit but the belt got pinched and it will brek again but i had a knocking noise from something so i decided finally doing a half ass job is not the way to go and i tore the motor out and i put it on a stand in my basement i have to get my block bored and honed and my crank is in bad shape so im going to buy a new crankshaft and new pistons. the machine shop my rods are ok and i can just buy new pistons and do my build path i set up for myself and take it step by step. ive been doing small work for a guy to work on cars like the other day i replaced a fuel tank in a bronco and the clutch. So im working slowly. I dont want to be told to take it to a mechanic thats going to be a bigger moron then any other dick or jane because the mechanic and machine shops here arnt to reliable I sound like a super genius compared to most they guys here.

Those "mechanic thats going to be a bigger moron then any other dick or jane because the mechanic and machine shops here arnt to reliable I sound like a super genius compared to most they guys here." you refer about are the hole in the wall kind of shops. Unfortunately there are a lot of auto technicians that give us a bad name, but there are a lot of experienced and skilled automotive technicians also. unfortunately most customers don't want to pay what good and reliable work cost, and they end up taking it to a cheaper wall in the hole shop. You already done 2 engine repairs, imagine what it really would have cost you from the very beginning taking it to a reputable and skilled shop, probably you would have money left for more performance parts that Im sure you would like to have than what you have already spent doing it yourself. That's what I mean when I say "stay away from the diy wrench".

Nevertheless, if you going to diy, go to amazon a buy a good book about engine rebuilds and another about engine performance, read them first, and then go ahead and take the wrench but go step by step, don't go straight to running cause that's exactly why you have already rebuilt your engine a few time already...

 

[mr2krazee]

Nevertheless, if you going to diy, go to amazon a buy a good book about engine rebuilds and another about engine performance, read them first, and then go ahead and take the wrench but go step by step, don't go straight to running cause that's exactly why you have already rebuilt your engine a few time already...

+1 on the engine book. Also if you dont have one already get a haynes manaul, although many will say they are worthless i personally like to have one flipped open to the corresponding section for the part im working on that way i can get all the specs and whatnot to double check it done properly

 

[gabytech]

+1 on the engine book. Also if you dont have one already get a haynes manaul, although many will say they are worthless i personally like to have one flipped open to the corresponding section for the part im working on that way i can get all the specs and whatnot to double check it done properly

Factory work manuals are not cheap but aren't that expensive as they used to be a few years ago. They can be found decent priced at ebay in cd format or downloadable adobe format. Haynes and Chiltons aren't very general repair manuals, although better than having nothing but not better than a factory repair manual.

 

[99 gs iowa]

seriously a twin turbo or coumpound 420a,
your a real special type of person

 

[Sullbren17]

http://nawdu.de/files/2gnt_420a_overhaul.pdf
This is what i use i have it on my IPad and i also have a hanes manual i got for my birthday...

 

[phunny]

seriously a twin turbo or coumpound 420a,
your a real special type of person

Thank goodness we didn't listen to people like you when they said the 4cylinders couldn't do this/that. If we had we'd all still think our 13.5 second cars were the dopest

 

[gabytech]

Thank goodness we didn't listen to people like you when they said the 4cylinders couldn't do this/that. If we had we'd all still think our 13.5 second cars were the dopest

Why would you go there with a 420A, when you have the 4G63 ??? I don't see the 4cyl cars who have done this and that using the base model engines, they always use the biggest available 4cyl engine... In our case that would be the 4G63 engine...

 

[99 gs iowa]

why do a compound set up on a 420a, when there hasnt even been one get under 10sec's yet,

 

[Sullbren17]

That's exactly whats wrong with diy weekend gearheads with NO knowledge. They think they can rebuild an engine or make engine parts combinations just because they can do an oil change and a brake job. Before you get in the performance game, you 1st need to understand the fundaments of a vehicle and how an engine works and its systems works. If you think the pistons are moved up and down by the conrods and crankshaft, you need to rethink your performance skills.

hey so im the original posters friend i drive a 66 mustang that i built from the ground up and i started just like he did but in less then a year i have built the car to 850 horsepower at the fly wheel and all you people that are hating on him for doing things himself obviously arent the smartest people on earth because you wont even try to do it yourself so shut up and help the kid on this Help forum not talk crap and make yourself sound like a jack ass

 

[gabytech]

hey so im the original posters friend i drive a 66 mustang that i built from the ground up and i started just like he did but in less then a year i have built the car to 850 horsepower at the fly wheel and all you people that are hating on him for doing things himself obviously arent the smartest people on earth because you wont even try to do it yourself so shut up and help the kid on this Help forum not talk crap and make yourself sound like a jack ass

That's the help a real knowledgeable person like myself is giving him, coming from someone who is a ASE certified tech & Mercedes Benz USA certified tech 10+ years, road race crew mechanic and drag racer. The best advice I gave the kid is to first learn to crawl before walking, that's exactly why this is his 3rd engine rebuild. I get he wants to diy and learn, but also no ones wants to throw away money like having to rebuild the engine a 3rd time like that. Like I advice him "buy a few books about engine rebuild and performance engines, read them till you really understand the science and all that's required to rebuild an engine and then give it a go". He's already been thru unnecessary trial and error because he tried to ate more than he can chew... And now hes talking about twin turbocharging or compound turbocharging a 420A. Hes getting way to ahead of himself... I don't mean to come harsh at him, Im just been blunt about it, been cars aren't my weekend hobby, its how I make my living... Nothing wrong with him wanting to diy wrench, but he needs to learn a bit more before. There are hundereds of books about engines, turbochargers, etc that are way more educative than coming to a thread asking newbies questions and not handle the blunt advice...

BTW, those F&F words "Built from the ground up" are used by newbies and ricers. So if you have a 800+ hp Mustang you might want to rethink that phrase, the real crowd dont use that line.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

hey so im the original posters friend i drive a 66 mustang that i built from the ground up and i started just like he did but in less then a year i have built the car to 850 horsepower at the fly wheel and all you people that are hating on him for doing things himself obviously arent the smartest people on earth because you wont even try to do it yourself so shut up and help the kid on this Help forum not talk crap and make yourself sound like a jack ass

Did you put it on an engine dyno or are you also talking out of your ass?

And congrats on making "850" on a large displacement motor with half as much work being done by twice as many cylinders in your imaginary mustang.

How about you help him if you are so capable?

I'll give you a hint, I actually have a compound build in progress and if you have to come on tuners asking how to do it.. you are plain and simple not ready to do it.

This kid has a few years of research, trial and error ahead of him with a single-turbo system before trying to use staged compressors and turbines. Never mind all the rest that is required to get the system to work or the cost of such an endeavor.

 

[grothe3297venge]

hey so im the original posters friend i drive a 66 mustang that i built from the ground up and i started just like he did but in less then a year i have built the car to 850 horsepower at the fly wheel and all you people that are hating on him for doing things himself obviously arent the smartest people on earth because you wont even try to do it yourself so shut up and help the kid on this Help forum not talk crap and make yourself sound like a jack ass

First off, are you the one helping him? He keeps saying my friend said this and my friend said that. Maybe your the said issue. If you are so "knowledgeable", maybe you should look back to the ridiculous posts he has made and the questions he has asked. Nobody is talking crap, people are tired of holding this kids hand when all he has to do is search. So I don't know why you/your friend are all butt hurt about the responses.

Someone who has supposedly built an 850hp mustang doesn't seem to lead him in the right path. For example he asked if he could use bigger rings if he bores his motor. Where was your so good expertise?! Where was your expertise the first time he replaced his rod bearings, he never had the crank checked and look what happened.

So in conclusion, OP you need to find better help. You need professional assistance, people who know what they are doing. Not some guy who claims to have an 850hp mustang . We may be rude when it gets to some points but really it's because people on here already personally know the outcome, or you just aren't retaining the information that we give you.

 

[phunny]

Why would you go there with a 420A, when you have the 4G63 ??? I don't see the 4cyl cars who have done this and that using the base model engines, they always use the biggest available 4cyl engine... In our case that would be the 4G63 engine...

I've had a 420, it actually got me into DSM's, bought her brand new in 99. By the time I was done she has a 8ft wing and was bright orange .

I'm saying we don't know what we don't know. Just a couple years ago everyone said that auto's are garbage and guys were laughed at for having them... No everyone is swapping to them, get my point?

 

[gabytech]

I've had a 420, it actually got me into DSM's, bought her brand new in 99. By the time I was done she has a 8ft wing and was bright orange .

I'm saying we don't know what we don't know. Just a couple years ago everyone said that auto's are garbage and guys were laughed at for having them... No everyone is swapping to them, get my point?

I certainly agree with you. And to a certain extent an auto trans in a 4cyl comes a time they are garbage. Not getting into the details, but those who know auto trans know why a auto trans in a 4cyl wont hold past a certain point. Im just suggesting the kid to read and learn the science involved before taking the wrench or asking useless question. Does he even know how to read cfm maps to really understand turbochargers ?? Thats exactly why its so common for diy gearheads turbocharging their cars to bolt bigger turbos than what they really need and end up changing to a smaller turbo after they realize they bolted a unnecesary turbo size to meet their engine and their performance needs... Gotta know the science involved before wrenching.

 

[glowryder]

Mods, can we close this? theres alot of conjecture, and its just an overall pointless thread. Bottom line.. no "online" help is going to help some one TT the 420a Platform. Not saying its not possible, Im just saying, OP , and many on here, cant even build a 420a correctly (budget builders) .. My .02

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Twin symmetric turbos, plumbed in parallel is possible on a four cylinder.. But why? What would it achieve that a properly matched single could not? It's been done, and it was abandoned.

Staged turbos is also possible, but you need to have a very very thorough understanding of what you are in for. Before that, you need to have a goal. Here too it's important to make sure what you are looking to do.. would not be better accomplished with a single turbo.

 

[gabytech]

Twin symmetric turbos, plumbed in parallel is possible on a four cylinder.. But why? What would it achieve that a properly matched single could not? It's been done, and it was abandoned.

Staged turbos is also possible, but you need to have a very very thorough understanding of what you are in for. Before that, you need to have a goal. Here too it's important to make sure what you are looking to do.. would not be better accomplished with a single turbo.

Couldnt have said it any better. Point been he needs to buy a turbocharger book, learn, and understand the technical side of the turbocharger beyond the simple understanding most ppl have.

 

[Sullbren17]

Hey guys I know your upset with "holding my hand" but i was woundering were to get the information to understand what turbos and what to do to turbos to finish the job i got my crank and my block today. i have my pistons coming, and i have my bearings and gaskets and timing where already here.. now i did some looking at some post on turbos and i did not understand a word anyone was talking about anyone wanna give me a push like a link or anything??

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

Try googling "all about turbos book"

 

[DSMnoobsause]

Google how to turbo,turbochargers,superchargers,forced induction. Or look for books under the same category's.

 

[Sullbren17]

And about the twin turbo isnt the mivec 4g93 twin turboed???

 

[gabytech]

And about the twin turbo isnt the mivec 4g93 twin turboed???

Oh boy, Im going to pretend that wasn't asked... 4G93s where NEVER turbo engines...

Go to amazon and search under books the word TURBO.... That will give you a good search for turbo books..