Turbo ???

[kspharris]

Just picked up a 91 n/t auto. I have a exhaust manifold, 14b oil feed and drain lines, oil pan and possibly a 91 gst manual ecu. I know I'll have to pick up some 440cc injectors and a pump. My questions are this:
1. Will a healthy n/t motor handle a 14b with a vacuum line ran from the j-pipe straight to the wastegate? (10 psi I think)
2. Will the stock n/t fpr work or do I need to switch to the turbo one?
3. Will the ecu work or will I need to get a auto ecu?
4. Will it work without the knock sensor? Idk if my n/t even has one but was reading that it may not.
5. If I don't have a turbo ecu can the stock one handle the fuel needs? I read somewhere that stock ecu can handle about 10% more air flow/fuel needs. True not true? Obviously I'd have to keep the stock fuel setup with the stock ecu.
Trying to get it boosted with as little effort as possible right now. I'll change over to 1g pistons and all the goodies for more boost later but now my summit hatch swap is taking my time and funds. Thanks all.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

I'm sorry, I can't come to answer these questions as these ALL have already been answered. The Search bar is right there to use, don't be afraid. It won't bite you. I promise.

Just because I'm feeling 'jolly'...here is a starter thread. Not the best but it'll get you moving.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-turbo-system-intercooler/5986-4g63-nt-engine-how-make-turbo-kit.html

 

[kspharris]

Ok jolly, don't post if your not going to be helpful. I read that whole thing and know how to build a turbo kit for this car and knew how to before reading. Also maybe you should read where it says don't reply to post in the newbie forum with search. Thanks for to useless info, but thanks for trying to help.

 

[90gen1tsi]

Question 1 is no. you need a dish style lower compression piston. Our cars come stock pushing about 11 psi. No way a stock nt piston would work for that kind of boost.

I believe that the auto and man ecu is different and also the nt ecu i have read that it will not work for a turbo set up either.

 

[rlacasse1]

You will need a knock sensor, you're n/t does not have one. That means you will get to add one in and wire it all up.

In all honesty, finish the summit and ditch the n/t.

Oh, and try searching. It will do wonders. There is a write up that talks about this. I'm sure it can't be to hard to find.

 

[FLASH1970]

1. It might. The weak point is the pistons on the n/t engines. I'd stick to 7 psi or so.
2. I'd get a turbo fpr and a turbo pump.
3. Get a turbo auto ECU
4. Wire in a knock sensor.
5. No. You need a turbo ECU. N/T cars have 230cc injectors I think and the ECU's fuel map is set up for those injectors. A stock 1g auto turbo car has 390cc injectors and fuel maps set up for that size injector.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Just picked up a 91 n/t auto. I have a exhaust manifold, 14b oil feed and drain lines, oil pan and possibly a 91 gst manual ecu. I know I'll have to pick up some 440cc injectors and a pump. My questions are this:
1. Will a healthy n/t motor handle a 14b with a vacuum line ran from the j-pipe straight to the wastegate? (10 psi I think)
2. Will the stock n/t fpr work or do I need to switch to the turbo one?
3. Will the ecu work or will I need to get a auto ecu?
4. Will it work without the knock sensor? Idk if my n/t even has one but was reading that it may not.
5. If I don't have a turbo ecu can the stock one handle the fuel needs? I read somewhere that stock ecu can handle about 10% more air flow/fuel needs. True not true? Obviously I'd have to keep the stock fuel setup with the stock ecu.
Trying to get it boosted with as little effort as possible right now. I'll change over to 1g pistons and all the goodies for more boost later but now my summit hatch swap is taking my time and funds. Thanks all.

1. It is recommend that you don't. When I did the n/t to turbo swap, i didn't. Some people have done it and reported that it works, however, I would never trust the n/t pistons with boost.
2. The non-turbo fuel pressure regulator is set at 48 psi, the turbo auto one is set at 43 psi (uses 390cc injectors). (FYI, The turbo manual one is set at 37 psi for the stock 450cc injectors). If you are planning on using a 14b, I would get the 450 injectors and the turbo M/T FPR. Also the turbo fuel pump is a MUST!!! There is NO WAY the non-turbo fuel pump will be able to keep up with the demands of 450 injectors and the 1:1 rising rate fuel pressure with boost. Don't forget the to use the turbo injectors you will need the fuel injector resister pack which the n/a versions didn't have.
3. You will HAVE to have a turbo ECU. It's not the pistons where it is highly recommended, it is required for it to run right.
4. You need the knock sensor. Most non-turbo blocks are already tapped for it, you just need to either wire it in to the n/t harness or get a turbo harness.
5. No. You can't keep the stock fuel system or the ECU.

There are a lot more items that you aren't even considering. Check out this tech article, http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/37019-installing-turbo-4g63-into-nt-4g63.html, for everything else you will need. You can also check out my blog to see how I did the swap last spring. If you want it to work right, you need to spend A LOT of time researching, planning, and acquiring parts. The actual mechanics of the swap is the easy part.

Hope this helps!

 

[ramsack]

1. Yes, for how long depends on how much knock you can avoid. It's best to tune. You will get knock on 93 octane on stock timing maps. The N/A pistons do not blow up from the first little knock they see. This is what the knock control system does, retard timing before damage sets in. You will want to avoid long high-speed/high-rpm pulls. The piston ring end gaps are too small for the amount of heat boost adds to the mix. People doing 140 on the highway all the time for long periods is what kills these pistons, not knock.

2. You need to match the regulator to the ECU.

3. Any turbo ECU will work. The transmission is controlled 100% by the TCU.

4. Since you need a turbo ECU then you need a knock sensor.

5. You might as well get a Walbro fuel pump, bigger than stock injectors, an AFPR, and something like DSMLink to tune with.

You WILL NOT want to use some kind of airflow tuner like an SAFC on the N/A pistons. It's a stupid enough idea on a 7.8:1 block, and you will ruin the N/A pistons in a day with all the timing an airflow converter will induce.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

To add on to my last post, here is how to wire up a non-turbo harness to work with a turbo swap. You will still need the turbo ECU either way you look at it.

Once again, check out this tech article that mavisky wrote: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/37019-installing-turbo-4g63-into-nt-4g63.html

what you'll need to wire in:

7th wire from mas - the 7th wire from the mas needs to be run back to pin number 6

knock sensor - one wire can be grounded to the engine bay somehow, the other white wire needs to be run back to pin number 9 on the ecu.

wastegate solenoid - one wire here will be grounded, the other returns to the ecu at pin number 105

injector resistance pack - this is the most dificult. i'll let the following pictures describe it rather than trying to explain it in text. if you have any questions just ask.

And here is a tech article by TimG on how to wire the injector resister pack on a 1g n/t harness: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-electrical-wiring/174314-injector-resistor-pack-wiring-1g-n-t-turbo-conversion.html

Hope this helps!

 

[kspharris]

Thanks to everyone that replied except XiKeiya. Well thanks even to him but not for the negativity. FYI I did search and read the entire post. You have waisted 15 mins of your life telling someone something that didn't need to be said. My questions weren't answered or at least to my satisfaction. Hence this post is for some other people that have more experience with this than I do. 9!clipse and ramsack, y'all have been awesome!! Thanks a ton for the links and info. Maybe I should have clarified my questions so "blatant idiots" could understand. I'm NOT trying to start anything here. I just wanted a bit more info and NO negative person trying to counsel me on what I should do. Anyway, 9! Or ram on my question 5 I was more talking about if I kept the n/t ECU AND changed to the stock turbo fuel setup AND got an AFC to tune with would that work? I wouldn't have to wire in the knock sensor or the mas. After rereading question 5 I guess I didn't state any of that so de de deeee! Of course I'd put in the turbo pistons and ecu and wire everything properly once my summit is up and running. Just saying for now of course. Thanks again and sorry for the book, Keith.

 

[ramsack]

Anyway, 9! Or ram on my question 5 I was more talking about if I kept the n/t ECU AND changed to the stock turbo fuel setup AND got an AFC to tune with would that work? I wouldn't have to wire in the knock sensor or the mas. Of course I'd put in the turbo pistons and ecu and wire everything properly once my summit is up and running. Just saying for now of course.

You WILL NOT want to use some kind of airflow tuner like an SAFC on the N/A pistons. It's a stupid enough idea on a 7.8:1 block, and you will ruin the N/A pistons in a day with all the timing an airflow converter will induce.

So you're going to get an n/a block to put regular turbo pistons in it later? You're not going to want to ever run boost without a knock sensor, especially with something like an SAFC. Just do it right or not at all.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Yes get all the mods do it right or do it again, asking questions gets lots of our answers. The threads are there to help its all there.

 

[avenged5]

Not a genius but Ill try.

1. Hit or miss depending on the condition of the engine.
2. Get the turbo one.
3. Im pretty sure the only difference in the ecu's was the injector programming. With turbo injectors you should be fine. (the stock 450's)
4. You DEFINITELY want to wire in the knock sensor.
5. Stock fuel system is not gonna supply enough fuel for the added air. Just find a turbo ecu.

And btw all these answers can be found so easily through google.

 

[Misterbeechy]

i think you can find you info here good luck: How to turbo 4g63 nt

 

[kspharris]

What I meant was that I'll use my current motor (n/t) and put 1g pistons in it and when I do that I'll wire in the knock sensor and other neccessary things. How do all the other cars, honduhs mustangs etc. "just turbo" their cars? Does every car have a knock sensor except the n/t eclipse? Idk really just asking. Thanks again ramsack

 

[92AWDHX40]

I dont know thats why i got rid of my non turbo block and got a 6 bolt turbo block. Didnt want to . mess around with all that work, wayy too much to deal with.

 

[ramsack]

They do so not having any control of knock and weak internals. They are just pissing blindfolded outside in the wind.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

What I meant was that I'll use my current motor (n/t) and put 1g pistons in it and when I do that I'll wire in the knock sensor and other neccessary things. How do all the other cars, honduhs mustangs etc. "just turbo" their cars? Does every car have a knock sensor except the n/t eclipse? Idk really just asking. Thanks again ramsack

Most cars these days come with knock sensors, even naturally aspirated ones. I know mustangs have several knock sensors. Heck even my 5.3L Avalanche has 2 knock sensors. As I mentioned in my first reply, most 1g n/t 4G63's came with the block already tapped for the knock sensor, it's just a matter of getting a sensor and adding 2 wires.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Interesting i never new that.

 

[BlackMount]

Also doing Turbo conversion

I am stock 9:1 pistons on 450cc injectors, with Turbo 1G ECU, I am running a T3, TDO4HL-15G turbo and be running stock waste-gate which is 9.5lbs until I have something to tune with.

Should be safe? all stock turbo electronics installed, except I have a set of HIGH impedence injectors which allow me to run WITHOUT wiring up the Resistor pack.

 

[kspharris]

Well hey there blackmount. Glad to see another dsm'er around me. Good luck with your car. If I can ever help you just let me know.

 

[dsm-onster]

Turbo conversion done here. You do not need to swap in turbo block components. . .Is it recommended? ABSOLUTELY. At 10psi or less, IF YOU HAVE THE KNOCK SENSOR/TURBO ECU COMBO, then no not neccesary.

Everything else is spot on. Remember the stock n/t tranny is weak along with that n/t clutch. I can pull through it with my 13g at stock boost turbo block (low compression) only in 2nd gear. But that weak n/t clutch saves the broken tranny issues down the road. . .