tuning help, timing problem?

[crazyboost]

So today I finish wiring up my water injection kit and i go out to start tuning a little bit and see how the car is running. I've been fixing and working on tons of other stuff for a while so i haven't been able to drive it a lot and haven't tuned it in a while. The mods are:
turbo back exhaust, O2 dump, jrc fmic, maft, blow-thru uicp, water/alky injection, 550cc's, walbro 190 fuel pump, safc, sbr 3500 clutch, wideband...

So basically the car runs like shit, I floor it and it will studder a few seconds in to the run. The car is a lot slower than it should be with all these mods; it was faster when i just had a mbc and an exhaust.

I think the problem has somethign to do with my timing. I thought this was the culprit awhile ago so i checked my base timing (it was at 9 degrees) so i set it back to 5 degrees. So today while i logged a few pulls my timing was pretty ridiculous. at the beginning of these second gear pulls (started out around 2500 rpms) the timing would 33-35 degrees, then i would floor it and it would fall down to around 28 right away then slowly decrease to around 20 degrees by the time i got to 4500 rpms and the engine would studder so i let off. I know that something is messed up here, it should start out around 10 and advance to 18-20 degrees right? I wasn't knocking that much during the runs, it would just start knocking before the studder and max out around 10 each pull before i let off. Anyone have any clue as to what is going on with my car?

 

[GVR4592]

Post a datalog and do a boost leak test.

 

[crazyboost]

i checked base timing again it was at 5, then i did a boost leak test and i heard a small leak coming from somewhere by the turbo, not the comp outlet but either where i had my plug over the inlet or somewhere towards the center section. also i heard bubbling from the valve cover so i assume my pcv valve is bad, should i get another one or just get a catch can? these boost leaks werent too bad though, as i got the pressure up to 15 psi then stopped putting air in the system and it slowly went down to 5 psi after about 20 25 seconds. so it held fairly well, any ideas on whats up with my timing?

 

[crazyboost]

so here a few logs from the other day. keep in mind i couldn't get past 4500 rpms really ### the car would studder/hesitate really bad so i let off. this is the first run with about -8% across hi on my safc.

Coolant RPM Knock Throttle Timing
165 3031 0 21 38
165 3031 0 38 37
165 3063 0 64 30
165 3125 0 94 28
165 3063 0 100 28
165 3125 0 100 28
165 3094 0 100 27
165 3125 0 100 27
165 3156 0 100 27
165 3156 0 100 26
165 3188 0 100 26
165 3219 0 100 25
165 3219 0 100 25
165 3250 0 100 24
165 3281 0 100 24
165 3281 2 100 23
165 3344 2 100 23
165 3344 2 100 22
165 3375 1 100 21
165 3406 1 100 21
165 3469 1 100 18
165 3500 1 100 16
165 3563 1 100 15
165 3594 1 100 15
164 3656 1 100 15
164 3719 1 100 16
164 3781 0 100 17
164 3875 0 100 17
164 3906 0 100 18
164 3969 0 100 18
165 4000 0 100 18
164 4000 0 100 18
164 4000 0 100 18
164 4000 0 100 18
164 4031 0 100 18
164 4031 0 100 18
165 4031 0 100 18
164 4031 0 100 18
164 4063 0 98 18
165 4063 0 98 18
164 4094 0 98 18
164 4094 3 99 17
165 4156 3 88 17
164 4156 3 53 17
165 4125 3 27 17
165 3906 3 17 26
165 3969 3 13 35


here is my second pull, didn't change any settings

Coolant RPM Knock Throttle Timing
169 2438 0 30 28
169 2406 0 29 28
169 2531 0 48 28
169 2531 0 100 26
169 2594 0 100 25
169 2594 0 100 25
169 2688 0 100 25
169 2719 0 100 24
169 2750 0 100 24
169 2813 0 100 24
169 2844 0 100 24
169 2906 0 100 24
169 2969 0 100 23
169 3000 0 100 22
169 3063 0 100 22
169 3125 0 100 22
169 3156 0 100 23
169 3250 0 100 22
169 3313 0 100 23
169 3344 4 100 21
169 3438 4 100 20
169 3500 4 100 20
169 3531 4 100 16
169 3625 4 100 15
169 3688 4 100 16
169 3781 3 100 16
169 3875 3 100 16
169 4000 3 100 17
169 4063 3 100 17
169 4156 3 100 17
169 4188 3 100 17
169 4250 3 100 17
169 4281 2 100 17
169 4406 2 100 17
169 4469 2 100 17
169 4563 2 100 17
169 4594 2 100 17
169 4719 2 100 18
169 4750 2 100 17
169 4688 1 100 17
169 4875 1 100 18
169 4750 1 100 18
169 4781 1 11 18
171 4750 1 11 30
171 4531 0 11 42

I saw a little bit more knock that time so i dropped the 3k, 4k, and 4.5k settings down to -7% for the hi settings on my safc.

Coolant RPM Knock Throttle Timing

178 1813 0 15 30
178 1813 0 33 31
178 1844 0 65 24
178 1906 1 96 21
178 1875 1 100 21
178 1969 1 100 21
178 1969 1 100 21
178 2063 1 100 22
178 2094 0 100 24
178 2156 0 100 24
178 2219 0 100 24
178 2250 0 100 24
178 2313 0 100 24
178 2375 0 100 24
178 2406 0 100 23
178 2469 0 100 23
178 2500 0 100 23
178 2563 0 100 22
178 2594 0 100 21
178 2625 0 100 21
178 2688 0 100 21
178 2719 0 100 21
178 2781 0 100 21
178 2813 0 100 20
178 2875 0 100 20
178 2906 0 100 20
178 2938 0 100 20
178 3000 0 100 20
178 3063 0 100 20
178 3125 0 100 19
178 3125 0 100 19
178 3188 0 100 20
178 3281 0 100 19
178 3313 0 100 18
178 3375 0 100 17
178 3438 0 100 17
178 3500 0 100 15
178 3563 0 100 16
178 3625 0 100 16
178 3688 0 100 17
178 3750 0 100 17
175 3844 0 100 17
178 3875 0 100 18
175 3969 0 100 18
178 4063 0 100 18
175 4094 0 100 18
175 4156 0 100 18
175 4250 0 100 18
175 4313 0 100 18
175 4344 0 100 18
175 4438 0 100 18
175 4531 0 100 18
175 4531 0 100 18
175 4594 0 100 18
175 4594 0 100 18
175 4688 0 86 18
175 4688 0 93 18
175 4688 0 99 18

that one looked a little better with no knock and timing was lower and started increasing.
my next pull was with the same settings.


Coolant RPM Knock Throttle Timing
198 2625 0 38 37
198 2656 0 74 29
198 2813 0 98 28
198 2656 0 100 27
198 2813 0 100 28
198 2813 0 100 27
198 2813 0 100 27
198 2938 0 100 27
198 2906 0 100 26
198 2938 0 100 26
198 3031 0 100 26
198 3063 0 100 25
198 3156 0 100 25
198 3156 0 100 25
198 3219 0 100 25
198 3281 0 100 25
198 3313 0 100 25
198 3406 0 100 25
198 3469 0 100 25
198 3531 0 100 24
198 3594 4 100 21
198 3688 4 100 20
198 3750 4 100 17
198 3844 4 100 16
198 3969 3 100 17
195 4063 3 100 17
198 4156 3 100 17
195 4219 3 100 17
195 4281 3 100 17
195 4344 3 100 17
195 4313 3 100 17
195 4344 2 100 17
195 4469 2 100 17
195 4500 2 100 17
195 4531 2 100 17
195 4656 2 100 17
195 4656 2 100 17
195 4688 2 68 18
195 4750 2 16 17
198 4438 1 13 33
198 4313 0 13 41
198 4156 0 13 42

so i got some more knock that time. wtf? i didn't change anything. didn't change anything and pulled again, i still have that nasty studder


Coolant RPM Knock Throttle Timing
198 3656 0 51 40
195 3656 4 100 25
198 3656 4 100 25
198 3469 4 100 25
198 3281 4 100 24
198 3219 4 100 24
198 3250 4 100 23
198 3250 4 100 23
198 3281 4 100 22
198 3313 3 100 23
198 3344 3 100 23
198 3406 3 100 23
198 3500 3 100 22
198 3594 3 100 20
195 3688 3 100 18
198 3813 4 100 16
195 4000 4 100 16
195 4125 3 100 17
195 4250 3 100 17
195 4375 3 100 17
195 4406 3 92 17
195 4406 3 13 17
198 3938 3 12 28
198 3406 3 12 38

same knock, again.


Coolant RPM Knock Throttle Timing
195 2781 4 47 31
195 2844 4 97 27
195 2875 4 100 24
195 2875 4 100 24
195 2969 4 100 24
195 2969 3 100 24
195 3031 3 100 24
195 3094 3 100 24
195 3125 3 100 24
195 3188 3 100 24
195 3219 3 100 23
195 3281 3 100 23
195 3375 3 100 24
195 3438 7 100 22
195 3563 7 100 21
195 3719 7 100 19
195 3844 7 100 18
195 4000 11 100 14
192 4094 11 100 14
195 4281 11 100 14
195 4438 15 100 12
192 4469 15 98 12
192 4406 15 96 12
192 4313 15 96 12
192 4156 15 93 12
192 4156 15 53 12
192 4063 15 61 12
192 4125 15 82 12
192 4219 14 82 13
192 4188 14 51 13
192 4125 18 44 11
195 4000 18 58 11
195 4188 18 80 11
192 4219 18 72 11
195 4094 18 54 11
195 4188 17 25 14
195 4094 17 13 25
195 4031 14 13 36
195 4156 4 12 40
195 3969 0 12 41

^ that pull had tons of knock on it. still the studder, im not sure if that is ### of my water injection kicking in or what, i want to lean it out a bit to compensate for the water/methanol but im afraid to see what happens with this knock. i was gonna pull again but i got the studdering thing again still


203 2688 1 22 34
203 2719 0 95 30
203 2844 4 100 27
203 2938 4 100 25
203 3000 4 100 25
203 3031 4 100 25
203 3094 4 100 25
203 3188 4 96 25
203 3281 4 86 24
203 3344 4 73 26
203 3469 3 61 25
203 3594 3 50 25
203 3719 3 33 23
203 3750 17 18 23
203 3531 17 14 31
203 3438 11 14 35
203 3531 1 14 40
203 3531 0 14 40

sorry for the extremely long post, so anyone have any advice on what i should do here? was my boost leak test alright? should i get a catch can or a new pcv valve?

 

[GVR4592]

Did you notice how knock increased significantly the higher your coolant temps got? If you're not driving in between runs, the coolant temps are going to go really high because there's no airflow across the radiator, the intercooler will heatsoak for the same reason. Try cruising for a few minutes in between each run to keep things cool.

If you're using a stock, unhacked air sensor, your safc settings should be in the -14 to -20 range. Have you read the safc tuning guides?

Also it's best to do any tuning with the water injection off. Are you using plain water or water/alcohol mix?

 

[crazyboost]

Yea i did notice that. i posted them to see if anyone thought that might have something to do with it. I was driving a little bit inbetween runs but not much. so next time i will let it cool down a lot before i make a pull again. I thought my temps were still within normal conditions though?

i have a 3" gm mas with maft. the translator is zeroed out because i just change everything with my safc. I know my settings should be a lot lower than -7 and -8. I'm using about a 65/35 water/alky mix by the way. and yes ive read the guides

so am i correct in that my pcv is shot, because when i was putting air in the system i could hear a bubbling/liquid type noise around the valve cover area, then when i opened the oil cap and put my ear closer i could hear it a lot better.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Did this happen after installation of the SAFC?

I helped a guy with the same problem a couple of months ago on another board. It turns out that he didn't cut the airflow wire when installing the SAFC, they just spliced into the wire.

 

[crazyboost]

No i have had the safc installed for over two years now, so that has never been a problem. any other thoughts?