Timing belt alignment mark problem

[bomper04]

Alrighty, here's a rundown of what happened. Timing belt hydraulic tensioner went booboo and car jumped timing, yay! So, the result was not significantly horrible to my surprise, just bent all my exhaust valves and pistons were A-okay! Luckily for me I have a spare head in my garage that I've been working on with fresh guides, seals and valves =) So with the head off I decided to look around and make note of things I had to do. Upon rotating the crank to line up the belt guide behind the crank sprocket to the front case, I noticed that the mark on the case and guide doesn't hit TDC for me...the piston is about half an inch away from TDC. When i match #1 at TDC, the notch is about a quater of a turn past the mark...what gives? I've looked at thread after thread and couldn't come up with a conclusive answer. Looked on alldata/shopkey and procedures say that with the mark lined up, #1 will be TDC. WTH?!

 

[donniekak]

Your plate between the balance belt sprocket and timing sprocket is either on backwards, or the wrong one.

 

[bomper04]

tried it, there's a keyway on the guide that only fits one way. if you flip it around it still yields the same result. i confuseeee though i won't rule out having the wrong belt guide plate.

 

[bomper04]

well here's a question, when you lined up the TDC marks on yours was your #1 and 4 truly at TDC?

 

[donniekak]

tried it, there's a keyway on the guide that only fits one way. if you flip it around it still yields the same result. i confuseeee though i won't rule out having the wrong belt guide plate.

The only way it could have the same result is if the keyhole is exactly lined up with the timing mark, or 180* off. It is neither. Put the engine at tdc and flip over the plate.

 

[rush2252]

The dowel pin should be near 3 oclock on the crank pulley if its in time. Are you saying with the head off the piston is still 1/4-1/2 off from TDC? Im a little confused? If thats what your saying then I believe that is correct. I believe your overthinking this

 

[snowborder714]

How about taking some pictures showing/explaining how much of a difference there is between the two points.

 

[bomper04]

well here's something interesting: i'm guessing that when i had valve to piston contact, the initial shock had enough power to shear the keyway for the beltguide. so after all, the keyway on the belt guide had sheared and rounded off a little bit. therefore the mark would line up incorrectly because the guide shifted. thank you donnie for your insight, when i get a hold of a camera i'll try to take a picture!

 

[92DSMErdrick]

That guide plate will most def not line up if you have it flipped the wrong way. Def get a hold of one that didn't shear or make the notch for the guide bigger. Another way for you to tell if it is at TDC is to but your lower timing cover back on and put the crank pulley on to check if the timing mark on the crank pulley matches up with your timing cover. I ran into the same issue with a friends motor and it baffled us for awhile. It was indeed that belt guide plate that was flipped around. It is not one of those mirror 180 degree type things. It will change the position of how the guide notch matches with the oil pump mark.

 

[92DSMErdrick]

To clarify this I took a quick picture of the plate with it turned around. I kept the notch where it lines to the sprocket on top. If you look at the bottom you will see how the alignment notch is in a completely different spot. Close to over an inch difference

<a href="http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/erdrick191/?action=view&current=IMG_0555.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/erdrick191/IMG_0555.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/erdrick191/?action=view&current=IMG_0556.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e78/erdrick191/IMG_0556.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[rush2252]

Good reference on the pic I think that may be his problem.

 

[bomper04]

yea thanks for the pic, the keyway is rounded off on my guide. just got another one today, thanks errrybodyyyy