Think you know this?

[myblack98gst]

you know correct me of I am wrong but the head and block basically use two different oiling ports.. the oild does not go through the crank then to the head, or through the head down to the crank.

so genious "buck" explain to me why it is impossible for the head to have 40 psi and the crank to have 20 psi due to blockage.. it isn't.

 

[Tevenor]

This thread is so full of misinformation, it makes my head hurt. Let's get some basics out of the way shall we?

1) Pressure doesn't mean volume. In fact, in many cases excess pressure in an idle situation means you have a big chunk of something nasty blocking the rest of your engine of VOLUME. Stick your dick in a hose and you will get plenty of pressure but no water to cool down your nuts.

2) The front balance shaft is countered by the rear balance shaft. The front shaft is spun by the belt timed to the crank. The rear shaft is part of the oil pump gears. The front shaft is oiled by 2 journals and associated bearings. The rear balance shaft is hollow and is self lubricated from the oil pump to the bearings.

3) If you spin ANY Bearing, shit will go through your engine. Period. I don't care if its a rod, main or balance shaft. THe questions is how much and how big. If you didn't clean everything out, you leave a potential for a nasty surprise when you start it back up.

4) 40 psi of oil pressure at the head is ungoddly high at idle. These cars idle at 20-30 psi of pressure right after the filter AT THE BLOCK. And there is only 1 oil path from the main feed line. The head gets it last. If you have more pressure at the head than at the block, you got some wacky shit going on. What idle is the car producing 40 psi at the head?

5) When you removed the rear, what did you replace it with? Did you rotate the front balance shaft bearings so the journals are blocked by the blank side of the bearing face?

6) If you got lots of tick, the ecu can easily read this as tons of knock and pull back your ignition timing to the point of affecting driveability under boost. Mechanical timing offset is very obvious in both idle and boost.

 

[Talon007]

You really should have pulled the engine and did a proper rebuild, especially since there was an oil loss isuue. But thats beside the point now

 

[98TsiAWD]

This thread is so full of misinformation, it makes my head hurt. Let's get some basics out of the way shall we?

1) Pressure doesn't mean volume. In fact, in many cases excess pressure in an idle situation means you have a big chunk of something nasty blocking the rest of your engine of VOLUME. Stick your dick in a hose and you will get plenty of pressure but no water to cool down your nuts.

2) The front balance shaft is countered by the rear balance shaft. The front shaft is spun by the belt timed to the crank. The rear shaft is part of the oil pump gears. The front shaft is oiled by 2 journals and associated bearings. The rear balance shaft is hollow and is self lubricated from the oil pump to the bearings.

3) If you spin ANY Bearing, shit will go through your engine. Period. I don't care if its a rod, main or balance shaft. THe questions is how much and how big. If you didn't clean everything out, you leave a potential for a nasty surprise when you start it back up.

4) 40 psi of oil pressure at the head is ungoddly high at idle. These cars idle at 20-30 psi of pressure right after the filter AT THE BLOCK. And there is only 1 oil path from the main feed line. The head gets it last. If you have more pressure at the head than at the block, you got some wacky shit going on. What idle is the car producing 40 psi at the head?

5) When you removed the rear, what did you replace it with? Did you rotate the front balance shaft bearings so the journals are blocked by the blank side of the bearing face?

6) If you got lots of tick, the ecu can easily read this as tons of knock and pull back your ignition timing to the point of affecting driveability under boost. Mechanical timing offset is very obvious in both idle and boost.

I just watn to touch on number 4 with my experience. I get about 85-90psi at the filter when the engine is cold. But after it warms up, like he said its around 25 psi by the filter at idle. (750-850 rpms) I believe the reason It goes down is the relief valve opens up to let oil to the external air/oil cooler.
So now only what RPM are you getting 40psi at the head, but what temp is the engine at? I cant remember for sure, but did you say you are running the water/oil cooler? I dotn know if those are as affected by opening a relief valve? Someone else may know.

Now onto number 5, If that was the case he wouldn't get anywhere near 40psi at the head would he? Because the bs and crank gets oil before the head does. The head oil galley is right at the end of the front main oil galley, and goes up through the side of the front pass. side headstud. Wouldnt the oil leak through the bs bearing hole enough so that it wouldnt get up to the head much?

 

[Tevenor]

The relief valve works to limit the max oil pressure and allow it to drain away from the oil passages. When the oil is cold, it is more viscous (thicker) and causes more pressure. As it warms up, the oil thins and the pressure drops.

 

[98TsiAWD]

The relief valve works to limit the max oil pressure and allow it to drain away from the oil passages. When the oil is cold, it is more viscous (thicker) and causes more pressure. As it warms up, the oil thins and the pressure drops.

Yeah, that makes sense. I knew it was to keep it from overpressurizing, but I though maybe it had something to do with the check valve or whatever it is on the external oil coolers that might be causing mine to go down, anyway back on subject.

 

[98TsiAWD]

Ok, I just read that you have a tapping in the head. Start the car, and take the oil cap off and see if the cam journal you can see is getting fully coated in oil. If its not, but you have pressure at an early spot in the head, you may have a clog somewhere in your head galleys or dist block. If thats the case the first thing I would do is pull the V. cover and take the oil distribution block off. That is on the pass side of the head, shouldb e 3 10mm bolts on it. The hole closest to the front of the car is where the oil comes up to the head, then it goes into the dist. block and sends it to those other 3 holes. You can try blowing compressed air through the holes to check for blockage. Also push down on yoru lifters and see if they are all still full of oil (they shouldnt be able to be pushed down on if they are).

 

[Suparata]

Everything Tevenor said is to the point and no. 4 is very true. You don't get 40 psi in the head when oil is at operating temperature. It starts cold at close to 40 but when the engine is hot you hardly get over 5psi. This is what you get at cruisin' at the head and when downstairs is close to 80psi .
Bottom line 40psi at the head at warm idle is imposible since you get less than 20psi before filtration, cooling or anything else where the stock oil pressure sender is.

Mitch.

 

[BUCK]

"Tevenor 5) When you removed the rear, what did you replace it with?"

Buck: Other than the Mirage Stub Shaft you don't replace it with anything - no need to - it's oiled via the hollow B/Shaft.

"Tevenor: Did you rotate the front balance shaft bearings so the journals are blocked by the blank side of the bearing face?"

Buck: he's posted at LEAST twice that he left the front B/Shaft IN - which is perfectly fine IMO.

 

[Suparata]

I don't understand why people leave the front (right) balance shaft in there. It is just a waste of oil (pressure) to the rest of the engine. They say it's not more than before but that's not true. Leaving a worn out shaft in two screwed up bearings it's just crazy in my opinion.
Well if you had a certain clearance when the shaft was spinning now that clearance is almost doubled because there is no "oil wedge" that "centers the shaft".
Never mind leaving the shaft in after it was seized in the bearings. Guess what: now there are all the chances for that bearing to fall out of there because it probably did loose the fit.
Now why would somebody try to patch an engine after a failure like that without cleaning and measuring everything is really beyond me.

Mitch.

 

[Tevenor]

"Buck: Other than the Mirage Stub Shaft you don't replace it with anything - no need to - it's oiled via the hollow B/Shaft.

Uh. No try again. The Mirage stub shaft is solid and there are 2 different versions. One with an oil groove around the circumfrence of the shaft seal surface and one with out. the ones without tend to sieze up the oil pumps, which is why you want the right version. Oh and did I mention that NEITHER STUB SHAFT IS HOLLOW.

Buck: he's posted at LEAST twice that he left the front B/Shaft IN - which is perfectly fine IMO.

Which doesn't answer my question now does it. I wasn't asking about the shaft, I was asking about the bearing. The "right" way to do it is to remove the B-shaft and install the bearings 90 degrees out. But I would agree that there is no harm leaving it in as it DOESN'T CONTACT THE DAMN CRANK but it won't block the journal as well as turning the bearings which is why I asked the question.

And trying to keep up with the posts in this thread is like trying to decipher instructions on how to program a VCR finger painted in baby shit. The more you read, the worse it smells, and the more you want to bang your head against a wall.

 

[crankbender]

Yall seem to have the engine internals covered. All I will add is that when you have any bearing fail you should rebuild the whole thing.

Kinda off the wall here but this happened to me once. During this escapade it is possible that you killed the timing belt tensioner itself. This happened to me once. What happens is as the belt gets into harmonics (cam snap over) the belt can cause the tensioning bracket to tap against the failed tensioner. This could be your tapping sound. As stated before this can cause timing to get pulled...etc.

It is unlikely this happened but I still have yet to figure out how you smoked a belt with teeth.

 

[Talon007]

Yall seem to have the engine internals covered. All I will add is that when you have any bearing fail you should rebuild the whole thing.

Kinda off the wall here but this happened to me once. During this escapade it is possible that you killed the timing belt tensioner itself. This happened to me once. What happens is as the belt gets into harmonics (cam snap over) the belt can cause the tensioning bracket to tap against the failed tensioner. This could be your tapping sound. As stated before this can cause timing to get pulled...etc.

It is unlikely this happened but I still have yet to figure out how you smoked a belt with teeth.

I have also had a tensioner fail on me, at first I though it was internal damage, but the ticking stopped at roughly 2700rpm+.

I agree with a full and profer rebuild, as I stated before

 

[Staged]

OKAY!
I think I have heard enough, read enough, and thought enough also.
SO! Let's pretend this IS baby "poop" and it is getting hard to see the overall picture.

I am going to save many of you a lot of time and future writings, so I hope that you read this closely.

1. If YOU think you are getting a headache... come be me for one day inside all the posts and questions, and just looking for that one answer (I realize there are multiple possibilities and possibly multiple solutions, so don.t comment on #1).

2. MANY, including several higher end DSM philosophers agree. Leaving the front balance shaft in place to avoid, a. the work load associated with the removal and replacement, and b. the time spent on that, is perfectly okay. It is considered the same under normal conditions as removing the balance shaft and then rotating bearings 90 degrees. This may not be normal, but we do all agree on one thing. The balance shaft froze in it's bearings. I may not be the best mechanic on the planet, hell, I am nobody compared to some. But I know this much, the bearing froze the shaft in place due to heat, friction and expansion. So argue that point all you like.
BONUS
Go to www.vfaq.com and you can direct yourself to the Balance Shaft Elimination instructions and the stub shaft I used is listed there. I did not waver on parts list. I was very specific about the parts. Maybe Tom was wrong?

3. OIL PRESSURE! Now for all you fans of this subject. No matter what you think, or how you think it should be, there are 2 conditions you guys are argueing over that you already answered and don't know it. Because, as I read TWICE...
a. The pressure readings are taken at a cold start temp.
b. At approximately 1100RPM cold idle.
BONUS
c. Oil pressure rises during elimination kit install.
d. The pressure reading is taken at the oil port in front of Cylinder 4 right next to the oil feed line to the turbo. The original objective of this port was to protect the turbo, but is so close to the chamber, it was also perfect as a head reading.
e. PLENTY of oil is being spit all throughout the lobes and rockers. I had the head cleaned and tested before putting it back on. I also personally pulled the chamber cover and cleaned it. Then actually used up what I had left of my regulator to blow air through the distribution block and down the tubes.

4. Last. Rebuild. The head was tested. The cams were set. The lash adjusters and the.... Oh Hell.... You can see that the only thing I have not done to this motor for this was mic the Main journals on the Crank, replace the Main bearings, tension adjuster, and oil pump assembly. As far as replacing them, $202.55 shipped to my door, and about 4 hours of dropping everything from the front upper mount to the transmission and it's out. I can get that done. I DID mic the rod journals on the crank to get the fitting on the rod bearings when I replaced them, and then did the same for the rings after honing inside the cylinder walls. I am not going to go into all that again. Let's assume for a second that I didn't go to the local mechanic to get this done because I LIKE to do things like this. And then ask yourself why I would be answering all these things over and over in THIS forum. I thought it said Advanced. Was this Newbie? Did I hit a wrong button? Besides, if this is so easy that everyone agrees to decide what the big problem is, then tell me, because so far, there is no answer. Hasn't been one in 3 months. Like one person put it, "I'v got a headache..." So do I.

Buck, Crankbender and a couple of others are on the same track I am on, and so I will be replacing the tensioner tomorrow evening after work. Let me get that all settled first. It is the ONLY timing component I have not changed since this all happened.

Please somebody tell me how to remove posts here so I can clean this thread up a little! haha.

 

[Talon007]

2. MANY, including several higher end DSM philosophers agree. Leaving the front balance shaft in place to avoid, a. the work load associated with the removal and replacement, and b. the time spent on that, is perfectly okay.

Contrary to popular belief, its not that hard to do at all, even with the block in the car. One man job.

 

[-red97rum-]

OKAY!
I think I have heard enough, read enough, and thought enough also.
SO! Let's pretend this IS baby "poop" and it is getting hard to see the overall picture.

I am going to save many of you a lot of time and future writings, so I hope that you read this closely.

1. If YOU think you are getting a headache... come be me for one day inside all the posts and questions, and just looking for that one answer (I realize there are multiple possibilities and possibly multiple solutions, so don.t comment on #1).

2. MANY, including several higher end DSM philosophers agree. Leaving the front balance shaft in place to avoid, a. the work load associated with the removal and replacement, and b. the time spent on that, is perfectly okay. It is considered the same under normal conditions as removing the balance shaft and then rotating bearings 90 degrees. This may not be normal, but we do all agree on one thing. The balance shaft froze in it's bearings. I may not be the best mechanic on the planet, hell, I am nobody compared to some. But I know this much, the bearing froze the shaft in place due to heat, friction and expansion. So argue that point all you like.
BONUS
Go to www.vfaq.com and you can direct yourself to the Balance Shaft Elimination instructions and the stub shaft I used is listed there. I did not waver on parts list. I was very specific about the parts. Maybe Tom was wrong?

3. OIL PRESSURE! Now for all you fans of this subject. No matter what you think, or how you think it should be, there are 2 conditions you guys are argueing over that you already answered and don't know it. Because, as I read TWICE...
a. The pressure readings are taken at a cold start temp.
b. At approximately 1100RPM cold idle.
BONUS
c. Oil pressure rises during elimination kit install.
d. The pressure reading is taken at the oil port in front of Cylinder 4 right next to the oil feed line to the turbo. The original objective of this port was to protect the turbo, but is so close to the chamber, it was also perfect as a head reading.
e. PLENTY of oil is being spit all throughout the lobes and rockers. I had the head cleaned and tested before putting it back on. I also personally pulled the chamber cover and cleaned it. Then actually used up what I had left of my regulator to blow air through the distribution block and down the tubes.

4. Last. Rebuild. The head was tested. The cams were set. The lash adjusters and the.... Oh Hell.... You can see that the only thing I have not done to this motor for this was mic the Main journals on the Crank, replace the Main bearings, tension adjuster, and oil pump assembly. As far as replacing them, $202.55 shipped to my door, and about 4 hours of dropping everything from the front upper mount to the transmission and it's out. I can get that done. I DID mic the rod journals on the crank to get the fitting on the rod bearings when I replaced them, and then did the same for the rings after honing inside the cylinder walls. I am not going to go into all that again. Let's assume for a second that I didn't go to the local mechanic to get this done because I LIKE to do things like this. And then ask yourself why I would be answering all these things over and over in THIS forum. I thought it said Advanced. Was this Newbie? Did I hit a wrong button? Besides, if this is so easy that everyone agrees to decide what the big problem is, then tell me, because so far, there is no answer. Hasn't been one in 3 months. Like one person put it, "I'v got a headache..." So do I.

Buck, Crankbender and a couple of others are on the same track I am on, and so I will be replacing the tensioner tomorrow evening after work. Let me get that all settled first. It is the ONLY timing component I have not changed since this all happened.

Please somebody tell me how to remove posts here so I can clean this thread up a little! haha.

What was your compression after the rebuild? Just curious, and forgive me if I missed it. It's timing belt 101 to change the tensioner when you do a TB job especially when you smoked it, knucklehead j/p. Oh well, that's water under the bridge. Damn I'm addicted to this thread. Now I have to know what happened to your motor. Change that tensioner and let us know the results.

 

[95AWD_TSI_TALON]

I havent heard anyone say anything about this yet- HAve you checked your base IGNITION timing. Have you been able to find out wuts ticking. I think you can disconect the knock sensor and it will eliminate it ( not smart to do) but I say at this point unhook it and try to drive around the block. If it drives fine then you know its knock pulling your ignition. your timing at like 10 degrees makes NO POWER. Hence having a parachute.

 

[Staged]

Update and answers:
I am going to try to pull the knock sensor out of the picture tomorrow. That seems like a good idea to at least try.
Another great idea that came up was that the CAS is an issue, so another is on it's way now.
I went ahead and started setting a fund aside in case I say screw it and buy a longblock as a temp to just do a nice Stage 2 build now (I am seeing opportunity).
My compression can be checked in the morning. The 40psi is from the top of the head on oil pressure and at cold start only. The tap makes me nervous to let it run too long. Timing belt, tensioner adjuster and tension pulley are all changed and now I am leaning towards changing the cams for the hell of it.
Thanks to everyone that has helped so far! This part is the waiting part for funds and time!
Thanks!!!!