The Official "What's this DSM worth?" Thread

[krb508]

Hi, everyone, im new to the forums, and the DSM's but im not new to cars, I am a technician but my real question is that i have a 1993 Camaro z28 LT1 v8, and a guy wants to trade for a 1993 Eagle talon, this is what he told me he has done to it: trade for a built 93 talon tsi(turbo) AWD?
i had a list of all the mods, but my son lost iton me showing it off to his buddies. i believe it has over size turbo 18g maybe oversize injector,(very fast way not stock) greedy turbo timer, stage 3 clutch(no broken in yet) short shift, fredenza flywheel, new tires, ti plugs(needs wires) boost adj. ,timing belt just replaced maybe 10 miles on it! i believe 3" exhaust is performance cat back but may be turbo back
i'm def. not a tuner so this doesnt mean much to me im sure theres alot more i forgot
ohh ya only needs a bigger intercooler and wires.
car is real nice perfect body drives awesome , AWD is real fun to drive.
too fast for my teen son, too small for family and imreally more of a muscle car guy!

So ive talked to the guy over the phone he said the engine was rebuilt, so im pretty sure its a legitimate deal, but what im wondering is if you guys think its a good deal, and also what kind of hp numbers should i expect with the 18G turbo, and whats a good site to buy an intercooler from? thanks alot guys! ive attatched some photos of the car too!http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

 

[lacroixdp]

I'd definitely pass. You can find those (at least in Indy) for 2K... your Camaro would sell for at least 4K here no problems, more if it has a manual. There are some things in the engine bay that give me the impression the guy is sloppy/doesn't really know what he is doing. Specifically, he spent more time powder coating items and playing dress-up than he did doing a clean install like no heat shield on the exhaust manny, right-side radiator mount missing, chintzy looking spark plug wire cover covering some old looking plug wires (it doesn't even fit flush), old looking hoses, O2 wire dangling right in front of the turbo, craptastic crimp-on holder for orange wire on battery without convoluted covering, stock radiator fan replaced with a single in push format when it looks like he had plenty of room to leave the good factory fan in, fuse cover off near battery which would allow for corrosion, and a few other nitpicks. When people care more about appearance than vital maintenance items like belts, hoses, wires and such, it worries me what other things they might have neglected like oil, spark plugs, timing belt. Furthermore, it's absolutely maddening when people neglect to put all the bolts and nuts back on when replacing/repairing their car... it tells me they don't really take pride in their car. He'd be getting the sweet end of the deal, IMHO.

 

[rayrayx411]

that turbo looks too small to be an 18g. might be just the angle. and theres something up with the radiator hose. he is also missing the manifold heat shield. he says its built but has all the stock intercooler hoses and bov. not to mention the stock intake. id double check if he really built the engine up

 

[viperlp01]

From the engine shot it doesn't look that sick to me.. Stock piping and uncrushed 1g bov... You need a complete mods list to really tell. But in my personal opinion a dsm is was better than an 90s camaro..

 

[GSXSixteenG]

Your limits will all be set in the tune. With an 18g you can produce anywhere up to 350hp maybe more, but it all matters on what you are tuning with and how good the tune is. I'd have to see some pics of your Camaro to compare the two. But I'm not much of a muscle car guy.

 

[bluegs03]

Definately pass that thing looks stock under the hood! It still has the stock aircan/ intercooler piping setup. I think the guy is lying to you about the modifications he has done to the car. Just look the the front picture of the car it doesnt even have a front mounted intercooler, if that is indeed an 18g which would look like this, Forced Performance Turbochargers: DSM 18G-6SL2 Turbocharger
The intercooler would be overwhelmed by a turbo of that size.

If you do go ahead with the purchase of this car make sure that you get receipts for the items he has bought i bet he wont be able to find them.

 

[1bad95tsi]

Looks pretty stock to me -it is clean though- id trade its definately going to be faster than an early 90s camaro my buddy had 1 there pretty slow compared to dsms - and around here where i live they practically give them mid 80s to mid 90s camaros away - the dsm has way more potential and once you go awd with 300 hp or more it'll put a big smile on your face and you wont look back trust me

 

[krb508]

Alright, so what im gathering from what your saying lacroix, and from what i can see, he does care more about appearance, i will attach some pics of my camaro so that you guys can compare, and bluegs03, he did say he lost all the receipts! haha! wow im glad i asked here first before going down to see it!

 

[lacroixdp]

Nice Camaro - I'd hold on to it rather than get that particular DSM for sure. IMHO, I get the impression that DSM is a basket case. I don't know how much Camaro's go for up in your area, but like I said they are worth a good amount here in Indy.

 

[beating4g63s]

honestly I'd pass on this deal depending on the condition of your camaro, if your camaro is in a decent nice condition, I'd just ask the guy how much out right he wants for it, if you could sell your car for 1-2k more then I'd just buy it and use that money to fix possible problems, besides the radiator fan, and little things pointed out earlier and the walmart air filter are the things that make me not like it, but it is a very nice looking car, also ask the person for receipts of what all was done before trading.

 

[krb508]

Yeah, thanks, they go for around under 4,000 with the six speed, which i have, and the talons KBB value is around 1700, but thanks for opening my eyes, I dont think im even gonna go look at it, but ill keep lookin for a better one, i just liked this one from "what it had done to it" and how clean it looked on the outside, but im sure i can find a better one. Thanks guys!

 

[krb508]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with my car, i brought it to my shop and gave it the full check up, fluids, brakes, tire wear, alignment angles, ball joints, the real deal. And the guy has no receipts due to "his teen child losing it" so i dont know, Im set on keepin my car.

 

[cardot33]

I finally found someone on a dsm site that has a Camaro! Yea, you'd better not get rid of your Camaro. Especially not for that deal, an LT1 6 speed camaro is a lot better than a Talon tsi. The Camaro is a sports car, a muscle car, and they sound so much better too. Sorry guys, that's just how I feel.

 

[TofastForU_99]

TRADE.......i hate Camaro's i have owned them and they are no were as near as fun to drive as a DSM especially a turbo AWD

but hey thats just my opinion

 

[ilco187]

i traded a 91 gta firebird for my current talon, shows what car i like better.

 

[pur97tsifwd]

Yea i would rather have the dsm way more fun then a camaro only if its awd and you will never want to go back.

 

[95fwdtsi18psi]

This is really hard for me, owning both a DSM and a 96 Z28. I can give you my personal opinion now that I have experience with both cars. I love my Camaro and my Talon to death but if it came down to it, the Talon would have to go. The LT1 in that Camaro is a very, VERY good dependable motor. Aside from a LS1 F-Body I would never sell mine. Sure I love my DSM it's not going anywhere unless it HAS to, that means I get married and the wife says no, hell my girlfriend already hates the thing but it's still here. I say pass man, but it's all personal opinion.

One thing though, that motor looks completely stock. That looks like the stock 14b! It has all factory hoses as well as the intake and other piping. This dude is shiting you.

 

[95fwdtsi18psi]

I finally found someone on a dsm site that has a Camaro! Yea, you'd better not get rid of your Camaro. Especially not for that deal, an LT1 6 speed camaro is a lot better than a Talon tsi. The Camaro is a sports car, a muscle car, and they sound so much better too. Sorry guys, that's just how I feel.

Your my new best site buddy. I love my Z28 to death, but I have been raised around them my whole life so I might be a bit biased.

 

[Dert]

I guess on the plus side, the talon looks stock, so you know he hasn't done any upgrades on it himself...but it could also mean he's bagged on it and not maintained it, I'd say get it inspected, if it passes without any problems then why not...it will be more fun than a camaro., or just buy it off him, as you could easily sell it if you dont like it (but you will)..coming from a 350 hp '91 5.0 stang owner, who has had it parked for the last 4 years thanks to a waaaay more fun 97 GS-T

 

[SmalltownDSMer]

Alot of people will tell you to avoid cars that are heavily modded, and I would have to agree. You never know how the previous driver treated it. With that power what do you think it was used for? Not to drive to the corner store and back.

It's your decision but you would prob be happier finding a completely stock car (or close to it) and put the mods YOU want on to it.

Good luck

 

[Dert]

thers no way he has alot done to it, nobody would put all the upgrades he says and still keep factory intake and intercooler piping, and that is a 14b with all stock lines connected to it....but like i said, it is hard to find unmodded dsm's in good condition

 

[costas14]

its a good stock talon it looks like, who knows it could be full of problems. the blue makes it look ugly but it will be faster then ## camaro for sure

 

[95fwdtsi18psi]

its a good stock talon it looks like, who knows it could be full of problems. the blue makes it look ugly but it will be faster then ## camaro for sure

Yep, if what he says about the mods is true...I know my Talon isn't quicker then my z28, but I have only had it for about 6 months now...

 

[1990AWD]

I guess on the plus side, the talon looks stock, so you know he hasn't done any upgrades on it himself...but it could also mean he's bagged on it and not maintained it, I'd say get it inspected, if it passes without any problems then why not...it will be more fun than a camaro., or just buy it off him, as you could easily sell it if you dont like it (but you will)..coming from a 350 hp '91 5.0 stang owner, who has had it parked for the last 4 years thanks to a waaaay more fun 97 GS-T

haha I love DSMs also but why don't you drive your mustang?!?! you can't get a dsm sideways with the same feeling as a rear-drive muscle car!

 

[costas14]

it looks mint, and bert an inspection? what do you think this is? drive it around the block nail the gas other then that your not buying a 2009 eclipse. your buying a 92. and even if it has a bunch of problems, what you cant sit there and be like well since i found this this and this during my bazillion point useless inspection im only gonna offer you 100 bucks. those are the kind of people that i usually kick out and dont let them buy a car from me