The Official "What Should I Spend Money On?" Thread [Merged 10-6]

[vr4play]

It would help to know your O2 voltage and idc when you are getting knock (and how much knock). This would help determine if it is a fuel related issue or not. I get ~10-17 knock counts @ ~5500+ rpm @ 23psi on 93oct, but that is because my idc is +100%.

You have a 255 pump & no fpr, is it possible that you are seeing rich knock? First off what octane are you running? Where are you seeing knock and how much? (a dsmlink log would help). What are your fuel settings at? What are your fuel trims sitting at? I would probably put the money towards a fpr & a wideband. You should be able to run more then 16 psi no problem without WI with a fmic. I run 20 psi daily without knock, no WI on a fmic.

I run a 255 fp w/o an afpr and have never had a problem with tuning the fuel (even w/ a b16g pushing less air). I have a 1g and run a maft, so maybe that is the difference?

How bout a bigger radiator wouldn't that help with knock

My coolant temps are 213-226 on hot days. Stock rad w/ single stock fan (I plan on upgrading the fan to dual high flows). 50/50 (standard coolant/distilled water).

You will see some knock evrything over 18psi, with very good tuning maybe 20. Everything more than that you'll need higher octane gas( 100 octane would be great till 25psi) or you could get a water/methanol injection to do the same thing.. $300 should be enough to get a good kit.

Maybe if you can't tune. I could run 25psi on 93oct if I just got some 880s.


Don't just throw parts and all kinds of fluids at your car... find the problem first.

 

[daren_p]

You live in canada, i live in arizona. Difference in outside temperature is something what you should consider. I cant run 20psi at 112 degrees and 91 octane, and see no knock. When is winter time, stuff changes...I agree that with that setting global and deadtime would help you to peciselly set you a/f ratio, but not neccesserilly only way to go. Dead time i always kept as it was in the book , but global i never cared much. Only thing i cared was a wideband reading...

The knock you are seeing is probably mostly caused by the piss gas you have to run . Yes weather will play a difference but my car is only run in the summer. I think with the heat you see & the piss gas, WI is something that would defently be a good investment for you

Like I said you trims don't have to be dead on 0 but the closer the better, as the car will run more like "stock", and the rpm sliders will do what they are expected to. You should make sure your atleast well within the -12/+12% range that the ecu is able to compensate for, or any other attempt at tunning is pointless. The values in the book are just to give you a rough idea since there are so many variables. Only way to set them properly for your setup is to log mid & low trims & adjust from there.

 

[krummel21]

when I logged I did mid lows and I had it down to +- 3 on both so it was good. I then adjusted the fuel sliders after that I am running 11's acording to DSMLink which seems to be almost right on when I compared it to the WB used at the dyno. I had to re-tune becaue they didn't have the right setting for the injectors. I am running 93 octane right now I am going to go out and re-tune. I'm sure I can get it up to 20 psi I had it at 25 had 3 count sof knock thats why I backed it off. When you guys tune do you usually do it at the hottest part of the day or toward the night time?

Krummel21

 

[daren_p]

Ok sounds like you have your trims pretty well inline. With the rpm sliders, have you read the dsmlink tunning guide (not the user manuel) that gives you approx slider position to get the desired air/fuel. Like the air/fuel est, I have found these to be pretty close to my WB. When you say you had it at 25 & got 3 counts of knock, what do you mean 25? Also for knock are you talking the raw knock count (which people don't usually refer to in dsmlink) or 3 deg of timing retard? What rpm did this happen? & what are your inlet temp? Also have you adjusted the timing sliders at all or are they still zered out?

If your interested, shoot me a PM and I'll give you my email if you want to send me a log to check out.

 

[vr4play]

I'm sure I can get it up to 20 psi I had it at 25 had 3 count sof knock thats why I backed it off.

3 counts?! I thought it was something serious (like 20+ counts). 3 counts isn't bad. You can get 3 counts for any reason. If you hesitate (pause) during acceleration, you can get a difference of 5 knocks vs. a steady pull.

 

[daren_p]

3 counts?! I thought it was something serious (like 20+ counts). 3 counts isn't bad. You can get 3 counts for any reason. If you hesitate (pause) during acceleration, you can get a difference of 5 knocks vs. a steady pull.

He's using DSMLink so he's probably talking 3 deg of retard, not 3 raw counts. I just inquired into this so we'll have to wait for his reply

 

[krummel21]

It's not the raw value. That was at 25psi. I have a question someone had mentioned earlier that to much fuel can cause knock. I've been noticing on longer drives that I can smell gas. I'm guessing this would mean my global is set to low. It's set at 30% but 680's are suppose to be 33% but I didn't know cause they are PTE's.

That sight has all my pulls but here is my log for 25psi. It was done in 2nd because of space. Would this cause the knock to be less?

pull 49 was done with modifying the fuel a little more which took knock down considerably. For 50 I pulled the sliders down a little bit more and I got a lot of knock.

This is why I was asking about a radiator maybe to take down the temps and getting rid of some of that knock.

 

[krummel21]

Hopefully those work otherwise I can e-mail them to anyone who wants them.

 

[daren_p]

First off its not a good idea to try and do a 25 psi pull when the car isn't tuned & your getting knock, this is how you blow something up. Even when tuned properly 25 psi is really pushing it since you are on a completely stock 7 bolt. Once you get the tuning sorted out & think you can push over 20 psi, I would atleast invest in a set of ARP head studs. For you logs it best to do a full pull in 3rd, & yes it is possible to get less knock in second because of less load & amount of time your doing the pull for. I'll see if I can make anything from your posted logs.

Ok took a look at the logs, not sure how long the car was running in both logs but in one of them it wasn't even warmed up yet. Your coolent temps on the second log look completely normal & the inlet temps are pretty low. Your fuel trims look to be not bad slightly on the lean side but well within limits. It looks like your probably trying to take away to much fuel and to early in the rpm band. I would set all the rpm sliders back to zero, and start with a safe boost maybe 16-18 psi. Do a full pull to redline in 3rd and see what you get. Then slowely remove fuel and start with the higher rpms. Don't remove fuel from about 4000 rpms down. Also its better to be on the richer side in the 4000-5000 rpm range as this is where the rpms drop back to between shifts and the peak cylinder pressure will be in this range.

Here is one of my logs, its with lower boost but take a look at the fuel rpm sliders. With these settings I see around 10.5-11.1 on my WB depending on the rpm.

 

[krummel21]

That was my log from when I had higher boost levels here is my log that I am currently running. It was done when it was probly 94 degrees out at the time.

 

[krummel21]

Assuming that when I go out this weekend to tune that I get up to 18 psi without a problem. What do you guys think my next upgrade should be, now that you've looked at my log for 16 psi and can see how the car is running.

If you haven't seen the log. Assume that everything is running fine what would you guys recommend for me to buy with the $300?

Should I just wait and save up for something more expensive if so what?

Krummel21

 

[daren_p]

Ok that log is looking much better, what boost was that at? The above logs (at 25 psi) were just to much boost on not high enough octane gas & not adding enough fuel. Like my above post I would still zero the sliders below 4000 and add some fuel from 4000 to 6000 and see what happens. I think you are still fairly lean for the 93 octane your running. My first choice would still be a wideband, PLX-M300 works great with dsmlink & is under $300. Assuming everything is running properly, after that I would look for a set of cams. Unless you really want to run low/mid 20's on the street I would look towards water injection with a set of ARP head studs. Just noticed from your gallery you are venting your BOV & still running the 2g MAF, is there a reason for this? as you should have that recirculated.

 

[krummel21]

The bov is recirculated, is the a major disadvantage to the 2g MAF?

I didn't list it but I do have ARP head studs on the car right now.

What did you think of the temps, anything to worry about?

So just zereo the fuel sliders out completely from 0-4000 but won't this cause it to run very rich through that area?

Thanks for your help it's very useful.

It's 93 octane here so should I take the car back out and see if I can't get 18-20 psi. How much knock is acceptable do you think? I always read to stay under 1 after that it is hurting your engine.

What time of day do you usually tune? The hottest or does it matter?

 

[daren_p]

No the 2g MAF is fine, especially with Dsmlink. I just saw the pic in your gallery with the bov venting & you still had the factory MAF, only supposed to vent if your running the GM MAF and MAFT. As for the temps, the lower the better but defently not anything to worry about, think you were around 206? I used to see 196-200 all the time under cruise without a fmic but now I see 206-210 with one, which seems to be the norm. I would like to get the temps back down under 200 but not a major priority right now, probably get a aluminum rad over the winter.

By zeroing the sliders out under 4000 the car won't be rich, you aren't under boost yet so as you make the transition from closed loop to open the air/fuel ratio is starting off lean. From your higher boost logs you were knocking really early on, thats why I'd put the fuel back in the lower rpms, then turn up the boost abit & see what happens. I would also add a couple more % in the 4000 to 6000 range.

As for how much knock is acceptable, never really got a straight answer for that. I like to see none. I have my check engine flash at 2 deg, which I think should be more then safe. I get off the gass for a sec if I do see it flash but it rarely does.

 

[krummel21]

where did you get the PLX-M300 at and how much did it run you? Did you get the guage with it, or do you not need it since we hook it up through dsmlink or did u not hook it up through dsmlink? Do you think that it's a better choice than the AEM?

 

[daren_p]

I got it from this seller on Ebay, B&E Customs:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PLX-...33557QQitemZ8064449697QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

Great company to deal with, they have come down abit in price since I bought mine last year. They are now $299 with the display. Yes I have the display, & it is connected so my dsmlink will log the air/fuel ratio (use the rear O2 sensor input on the ecu) . Is the display useful for tuneing?, not really, its almost impossible to try & do a wot pull, look at the road, look at the gauge and look at your rpms & then when its all done remember what the gauge read at what rpm to adjust your fuel. If you want the cheepest route, then pass on the display but its not that much more (I don't think) so I'd just get it. Still good for a quick reference if your not logging at the time. Is it better then the AEM? not sure they are probably both pretty much the same. They probably both use the common Bosch wideband sensor so I guess it depends if your looking for a gauge or box display & the price. I think the AEM one has come down alot in price recently. I can say the PLX M300 works great.

I didn't have anymore room for a gauge as my 3 pillar & 2 bezel are full already so thats why I went with the "box" style. Where its mounted its out of the way but easy for me to see while driving, see pics in this thread:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=50384611#post50384611

 

[krummel21]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Inno...categoryZ43989QQihZ002QQitemZ4648486348QQrdZ1

Would this work alright with DSMLink?

 

[mirkoelek]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Inno...categoryZ43989QQihZ002QQitemZ4648486348QQrdZ1

Would this work alright with DSMLink?

It doesnt show the gauge, unless you want to go straigt into the dsmlink. Get one with a gauge. it looks nice in the car, its easier to monitor, plus you can log it with the dsmlink if you want to.

 

[krummel21]

Well I mean I don't really have anywhere to set it cause of my turbo timer, also I don't really have any need to look at those values unless I'm tuning. But you think that'll hook right up to dsmlink no problem and I can log with it? Just clarifing

Krummel21

 

[mirkoelek]

Well I mean I don't really have anywhere to set it cause of my turbo timer, also I don't really have any need to look at those values unless I'm tuning. But you think that'll hook right up to dsmlink no problem and I can log with it? Just clarifing

Krummel21

It should. Regular LM1 can, i dont see any reason why this one would not.

How come you dont have space?

 

[krummel21]

Well I have my pllar filled and I set the turbo timer ontop of the steering column I would have to buy another guage holder to get that to work. Don't really have the funds.

 

[mirkoelek]

Well I have my pllar filled and I set the turbo timer ontop of the steering column I would have to buy another guage holder to get that to work. Don't really have the funds.

Its not about funds my friend. Its about, "do it right the first time....dont bother later".

That is my most favorite gauge...

$24 with shipping

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/95-9...categoryZ40017QQihZ019QQitemZ8072589390QQrdZ1


Just break up with your girlfriend for about one weekend and youre set..

 

[krummel21]

hahaha, yea I could do that. The other thing is I would have to buy another guage to fill the extra hole. I mean you have the gage right now andd your saying that you really do use it a majority of the time. I don't know for sure so you can correct me if I'm wrong. Once you have you trims set doesn't your a/f always stay the same? So lets say it's 11's when your tuning and done wont it always be 11's from tehre on. Or is that something you need to watch?

 

[krummel21]

was it hard wiring the sensor into the ECU? Is there a diagram somewhere for reference? Where in DSMLink did you go to make the Check Engine light to pop on after 2 counts of knock rather than 5 which is what mine is set at currently.

 

[mirkoelek]

wow, man. Wideband has its purpose, and it seems to me, you dont know what that is. You'll work on your car every month or even a week, change , modify and what not.
You dont need Wideband to set your fuel trims!!!! You need widebad to tell you how is your car running. It tells you, are you runing rich or lean. How many times happend to me that i forgot to hook something up, have a little boost leak or vaccum leak, wideband tells you that. DSM is pain it the but, man and you know that. But if you have appropriate tools you should be fine and at least not hate your car (this comes from personal experience). Other and very important thing, you'll always tune your car. That is the time when wideband really helps you. I honestlly, every time i step on the gas, watch my a/f ratio, it makes me more comfortable if is ok. Keep knock settings at 5 deg, that is what everybody uses. Little or 2 counts of knock will came once in the while, it will make you nervous thinking that somethign is not right (been there). You dont need that.