The Answer to Spark Plug Wires ( Ignition Wires )

[David15151]

This is to help all those looking to upgrade their ignition wires and are not sure what brand they would like to buy.

The following is the resistance measured in ohms/ft by each major ignition wire distributer.

(low = good, high = bad)

MSD Ignition 8.5mm Super Conductor (40-50 ohms/ft)
Accel Thundersport (150 ohms/ft)
Taylor 8mm Spiro Pro (350 ohm/ft)
Aurora ignition wire set (400 ohms/ft)
Vitek Performance Cables (their web site does not mention resistance, but John Monnin measured them at about 800 ohms/ft; the label under Vitek's braiding says "Magstar Gold 8mm High Performance S-4 Stainless Steel Mag Wire" - thanks John!; Magstar wires are manufactured by Wiretec)
Wiretec Magstar Gold (800 ohms/ft as measured by John Monnin)
NGK Resistor Spark Plug Wire Set (2600 ohms/ft)
Mitsubishi factory wire sets (3000++ ohms/ft)
Car Quest brand wire sets (3000++ ohms/ft - Thanks to Bret for measuring these wires.)
Magnecor KV85 (6000++ ohms/ft)

 

[aleccolin]

It's doubtful that wrapping the wires in electrical tape will make any difference since they already have a coating on them.

 

[Gigaah]

Would wraping the wires in copper mesh(sorta like nylon "chineese finger trap" type tube).
I know that for cell phones it acts as a ferady(sp) cage and you cannot use a cell phone with it wraped like that. Would such a wire mesh screen EMI?

 

[chicagoboostin]

just a correction.. the 3kgt vr4 motor is a 6G72TT

 

[99gst_racer]

Honostly no amount of info will me the all out ending factor in this debate. I do think though there is a LOT of good info in the entire thread enough so that someone who didnt know what they wanted can make a good choice at to what they will get. Therefore we can skip just about any future "which plug?" thread. I doubt any thread has had so much real data and concepts behind a set of ignition wires. Therefore, even though we have not come to a mutual agreement I believe this thread serves its purpose. If ANYONE needs info on spark plug wires.. lord knows we got a bucket load here.

This, I do think we have a mutual agreement on. There is ALOT of great info here.
Good times, good times....

 

[David15151]

just a correction.. the 3kgt vr4 motor is a 6G72TT

yep.. i was hoping no one would notice that mistake

aw well.. 6g63 6g72 both sound good to me

gee guys we got this to 4 pages .. only 5 more pages to go to compete with the BOV vent to atmophere thread! :laugh:

oh and I did speak with MSD today on the phone just to verify my claims.. but im not going to say much about that cause no sense beating a dead horse.. in summery they do not like the design of wires like that of magnecore because it causes high resistance and also MSD states their wires do in fact suppress EMI just as well. Anyways, I wouldnt expect any company to admit to being wrong or have a product not as good as another. I'm still going with low resistance wires myself.. just waiting for them to arrive at my house. Maybe I will notice a difference when i take out my current magnecores.

 

[99gst_racer]

Anyways, I wouldnt expect any company to admit to being wrong or have a product not as good as another.

Yeah, that's for sure....

Maybe I will notice a difference when i take out my current magnecores.

Yeah, make sure you post your results/opinion.

 

[tmizer]

More data:

Taylor Thundervolt 50, PN 98069, just installed, I measure on average 40 to 50 ohms/ft.

 

[2meangst19]

I dont see how magnacore wires are the worst when road race enginering and other well respected dsm sites recomend them. I asked a lot of people about spark pluge wires before I bought mine and all said get magnacore and are using them on the dsm's as well.

 

[David15151]

I think I already covered the reasons quite clearly.. just read the thread.

 

[IceDragon]

Just my 2cents but I use Nology HotWires... and also... to the questions about why stores that are recommended would recommend magnacore or wutever... I dunno, maybe you should look and see what they sell OH MY GOD, they sell magnacore (most stores that recommend them sell them, Thats why, SALES.) IMO, Nology HotWires mixed up with the Nology PowerCore rock... I like em, and a couple other car's I helped work on around here run the same setup and noone's complained yet!

 

[kicker91laser]

intead of arguing about plug wires, just go out and cough up $500 for a coil on plug ignition

 

[91boost]

IMO, Nology HotWires mixed up with the Nology PowerCore rock... I like em, and a couple other car's I helped work on around here run the same setup and noone's complained yet!

I run Nology's on my MR2 and love them. Not sure yet if I am gonna try them on my GST.

You are running a non-resistor plug with them right?

 

[boostedinaz]

Everything was pretty much covered, very well also, so I just thought I would add this. I will only run MSD wires on all my cars. I have yet to put them on my Talon, bbut will do so soon and report back.

My reasoning for this is that MSD has been around for along time and pretty much has invented the powerful ignitions we see today. All of there components are very well built and do exactly what they say.

For those wondering why so many shops sell them if they "suck", well the days of a Speedshop, and I use that term losely when refering to todays shops, actually tested a product and on ly carried it if id did well, are long gone. Companies will carry what will sell or what they can get a good deal on. Sure the Maganacores have gone fast, but does that mean they are the best or that there is new technology out there? Not at all. DSM guys are the only people I have seen that will only use what the faster guy use no matter what. It always ends up well "racerX" went this fast on "productY" so it cant be bad. Trying new things is why the whole sportcompact market is alive, so give it a shot, it just may work.

 

[gsx951]

Also another thing to take into effect, is EMI and EFI suppression, MSD, Accel, and NGK all use a good Suppression material. Where as Magnecor just puts a silicone coating on it. In a post above a set of magnecor wires that are only 15k old are already ARCING THROUGH THE WIRE! What kinda proof do you need, that these aren't the greatest wires. I'm not trying to plug Magnecor I'm just trying to give people info that they need to make their own reasonable decision.

David this is nonsense! EMI and EFI supression?
Why would you want to suppress your fuel injection system? Did you mean Radio Frequency Interference?
What does jacket construction have to do with radiated noise ? Not a damn thing. Radiated noise is suppressed by conductor geometry. The crap you refer to as "good Suppression material" is a band-aid to help out a poorly designed cable and it is this conductive layer that's actually carrying the signal, not the low resistance metal core.
The suppression is achived by dramatically increasing the resistance of the wire. How? You say...you measured the wire at xxx ohms/ft. and saw for yourself that it was a low resistance wire. Well, the signal that the ignition transmits on this conductor is a high frequency pulse and therefore travels over the surface of the conductor. The surface of the MSD conductor is a high resistance conductive layer. You measured the wire with dc. Your testing protocol is flawed and in no way predicts what will happen to the wire in service.
I don't know any nice way to say that the premise of your argument is based on a fundimental misunderstanding of the electrical phenomonon involved.

 

[gsx951]

The MSD's totally eliminated fuel cut issues I was having after the Magnecores didnt.

Fuel cut is about airflow.

 

[gsx951]

Just my 2cents but I use Nology HotWires... and also... to the questions about why stores that are recommended would recommend magnacore or wutever... I dunno, maybe you should look and see what they sell OH MY GOD, they sell magnacore (most stores that recommend them sell them, Thats why, SALES.) IMO, Nology HotWires mixed up with the Nology PowerCore rock... I like em, and a couple other car's I helped work on around here run the same setup and noone's complained yet!

"The most notable of exaggerated claims for ignition wires are made by Nology, a recent manufacturer of ignition wires promoted as "the only spark plug wires with built-in capacitor." Nology's "HotWires" (called "Plasma Leads" in the UK) consist of unsuppressed solid metal or spiral conductor ignition wires over which braided metal sleeves are partially fitted. The braided metal sleeves are grounded via straps formed from part of the braiding. Insulating covers are fitted over the braided metal sleeves. These wires are well constructed. For whatever reason, Nology specifies that non-resistor spark plugs need to be used with their "HotWires." In a demonstration, the use of resistor plugs nullifies the visual effect of the brighter spark.

Ignition wires with grounded braided metal sleeves over the cable have come and gone all over the world for (at least) the last 30 years, and similar wires were used over 20 years ago by a few car makers to solve cross-firing problems on early fuel injected engines and RFI problems on fiberglass bodied cars — only to find other problems were created. The recent Circle Track Magazine (USA, May, 1996 issue) test showed Nology "HotWires" produced no additional horsepower (the test actually showed a 10 horsepower decrease when compared to stock carbon conductor wires)."

 

[cuttheduck]

I dont see how magnacore wires are the worst when road race enginering and other well respected dsm sites recomend them. I asked a lot of people about spark pluge wires before I bought mine and all said get magnacore and are using them on the dsm's as well.

Road race also says the illuminas are the best shocks for the 2g.
:laugh:
Whats your point? If someones willing to spend 80 bucks on wires that will last three months, then of course they will reccomend them.

Let me also mention that not all the Accel wires are good. The 300+ Thundersports for DSMs and other imports seem to be really excellent wires for the money, as well as several other lines of wires that Accel makes. They do make some crappier ones though, and usually price is the best indicator of that quality differential.

Amen, I sold by $89 magnecores after having them crap out on two friends cars.
Picked up brand new accel 300+ thundersports for under $25. I'm gonna have a hard time believing that accels aren't the best all-around choice for us not in the 350-400+ horsepower club when you consider price.

Expensive plug wires are like taking a sh1t before racing, sure it might make a little difference on paper, but the end results are the same.

 

[David15151]

David this is nonsense! EMI and EFI supression?
Why would you want to suppress your fuel injection system? Did you mean Radio Frequency Interference?
What does jacket construction have to do with radiated noise ? Not a damn thing. Radiated noise is suppressed by conductor geometry. The crap you refer to as "good Suppression material" is a band-aid to help out a poorly designed cable and it is this conductive layer that's actually carrying the signal, not the low resistance metal core.
The suppression is achived by dramatically increasing the resistance of the wire. How? You say...you measured the wire at xxx ohms/ft. and saw for yourself that it was a low resistance wire. Well, the signal that the ignition transmits on this conductor is a high frequency pulse and therefore travels over the surface of the conductor. The surface of the MSD conductor is a high resistance conductive layer. You measured the wire with dc. Your testing protocol is flawed and in no way predicts what will happen to the wire in service.
I don't know any nice way to say that the premise of your argument is based on a fundimental misunderstanding of the electrical phenomonon involved.

EFI was a typo my fault.

Oh and as far as the rest your post there refer to my post 15 as I already covered it. But here is some of it to cut it down for you.

Electrical charge flow for direct current (DC) occurs through the entire cross-section of a wire. Larger diameter wires of the same material have lower resistance (ohms) per foot of length. Unlike direct current, the charge flow for alternating current (AC) tends to be localized near the surface of a conductor. This tendency is called the skin effect. The higher the frequency the greater the tendency is to have current only at the surface. When skin effect transmission is occurring, the effective resistance along the wire increases because the area or volume of metal available for transmission has decreased. The higher the frequency, the higher the effective resistance becomes. The brief high-voltage impulses along our ignition wires can be considered similar to alternating current. Therefore, skin effect electrical transmission occurs in the ignition wires. At the relatively low frequencies our ignition system operates at, which is up to about 8000 Hz, the effective resistance is roughly only a few percent higher to perhaps double the DC resistance. For more information regarding the skin effect search http://www.google.com/ and look at the article by Willem Naegels at http://diyaudiocorner.tripod.com/skin.htm.

In a series circuit, such as in the High Tension side of our coils, current (amps) must remain constant across the circuit. However, the voltage drop across each resistor in the circuit is directly related to resistance. Higher resistance means a greater voltage drop across the resistor. The resistors are the coil secondary wire, both ignition wires, both spark plugs when they are resistor plugs, both spark plug gaps, and the engine heads and block. The sum of all the voltage drops must equal the voltage available in the electric field produced in the High Tension circuit.

So, contrary to Magnecor's claims, DC resistance measured along the ignition wire's length does matter. The greatest amount of voltage is available at the spark plug gaps using wires with the lowest DC resistance and therefore the lowest skin-effect effective resistance. Usually, the problem with low resistance wires is that they can do a poor job of suppressing EMI generated by the ignition system. MSD Ignition, Accel, and other manufacturers, have solved this problem with careful design.

 

[gsx951]

Road race also says the illuminas are the best shocks for the 2g.
:laugh:

Really? John told you that or was it Ty?
Last i heard it was custom JIC/Magic they were hot for.

 

[gsx951]

"Electrical charge flow for direct current (DC) occurs through the entire cross-section of a wire. Larger diameter wires of the same material have lower resistance (ohms) per foot of length. Unlike direct current, the charge flow for alternating current (AC) tends to be localized near the surface of a conductor. This tendency is called the skin effect."

Gee thanks. but you assume that the rest of us are unfamilliar with skin effect.

"At the relatively low frequencies our ignition system operates at, which is up to about 8000 Hz,"

Don't you mean 16,000 Hz? You are afterall dealing with a wasted spark ignition.


"In a series circuit, such as in the High Tension side of our coils, current (amps) must remain constant across the circuit."

It really appears to be a parallel circuit, take another look.

"So, contrary to Magnecor's claims, DC resistance measured along the ignition wire's length does matter."

Based on your opinions. You've proved incapable of setting up a proper test protocol.

"Usually, the problem with low resistance wires is that they can do a poor job of suppressing EMI generated by the ignition system. MSD Ignition, Accel, and other manufacturers, have solved this problem with careful design."

Ah, but they haven't. You just don't understand the operation of the conductive jacket yet. It's a friggin' balast.....

http://962.com/other_racing_cars/nissan_gtp_zx/

This is the car that made me aware of Magnecor way back in the '80's, the NISSAN/Electromotive 300ZX GTP
Electromotive is a manufacturer of ignitions, they recommend Magnecor for use with their product. (crazy huh?)

 

[really slow FWD]

too bad dsmtalk is down, their was a really good post on this topic that started as me getting flamed and someone taking the time to do lab qualty resurch.

 

[GSX0TIC]

Thanks for the useful information and time. I have come to a conclusion on which my wires of choice will be.

Even though this thread is a few months old. Older posts are just as useful than brand new ones.

 

[SRiz]

i just had a set of magnacore 8.5s and i was gettting CEl cause of cylinder misfire GUESS WHAT!!!! i got accel thundersports and no more misfire hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!

 

[gsx951]

i just had a set of magnacore 8.5s and i was gettting CEl cause of cylinder misfire GUESS WHAT!!!! i got accel thundersports and no more misfire hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!

Most wire related misfires are operator induced. hmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!

 

[cuttheduck]

Most wire related misfires are operator induced. hmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!

Yes but magnecors do fail extremely easily. They are a great race wire, but for the normal dsmer who doesn't maintan them religiously, they will fail very fast. Just stick to a cheap wire that works if you're not running some huge numbers.
http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/techbulletins/tech_mrbishi1.htm