The Answer to Spark Plug Wires ( Ignition Wires )

[David15151]

This is to help all those looking to upgrade their ignition wires and are not sure what brand they would like to buy.

The following is the resistance measured in ohms/ft by each major ignition wire distributer.

(low = good, high = bad)

MSD Ignition 8.5mm Super Conductor (40-50 ohms/ft)
Accel Thundersport (150 ohms/ft)
Taylor 8mm Spiro Pro (350 ohm/ft)
Aurora ignition wire set (400 ohms/ft)
Vitek Performance Cables (their web site does not mention resistance, but John Monnin measured them at about 800 ohms/ft; the label under Vitek's braiding says "Magstar Gold 8mm High Performance S-4 Stainless Steel Mag Wire" - thanks John!; Magstar wires are manufactured by Wiretec)
Wiretec Magstar Gold (800 ohms/ft as measured by John Monnin)
NGK Resistor Spark Plug Wire Set (2600 ohms/ft)
Mitsubishi factory wire sets (3000++ ohms/ft)
Car Quest brand wire sets (3000++ ohms/ft - Thanks to Bret for measuring these wires.)
Magnecor KV85 (6000++ ohms/ft)

 

[99gst_racer]

Did you go and do any research to back yourself up?

No, instead I bought the wires and used them for 2 years, regaurdless of ohm resistence. Does that make them better than the rest? NO Are they worse? NO. They are plug wires for Christ sakes. Thay transfer spark just like the rest......

At no point did I say take your Magnecore wires out and put in MSD. I said MSD has a lower resistance then Magnecore (and lower resistance is good).

No, actually you said Mangecor are bad, MSD are good. There's nothing bad about my Magnecor wires. And I actually USED them for proof.

Which major ignition wire distributer did you get this info from. Would it be MSD? .

Please explain to us why (low = good, high = bad)....
Wow could this affect a (for example) 300 HP daily driven 4G63?
Explain why the resistance level makes such a big difference....
And how does this difference specifically affect performance?

 

[leet]

Please explain to us why (low = good, high = bad)....

Lower resistance allows more current to be transferred to the spark plug.

That is a good thing, especially in high power applications.

 

[dave99gst]

btw - 2 years on a DD dsm is prob a tad to long

 

[David15151]

Please explain to us why (low = good, high = bad)....
Wow could this affect a (for example) 300 HP daily driven 4G63?
Explain why the resistance level makes such a big difference....
And how does this difference specifically affect performance?

OK, this is not affending people who own Magnecor wires as I own a set myself.

The thing that makes lower resistance better is during high RPM when there is less Dwell time on the coil pack. Resistance plays a bigger role in determining how easy spark gets through. For example high HP people use lower gapped plugs so during high RPM's it's easier to produce spark. Many magazines have tested wires. They prove that magnecor wires are either barely better or worse depending on the car on a Turboed t3/t4 Civic they increased hp by 1.2 over stock where MSD and NGK both increased by 3.4 HP. Accel wires increased by 2.8 who's got the better wires? You decide go; do some reasearch.

 

[CowPimp]

Hrm. Interesting. I guess when I do my next tuneup (I just did one today), I will replace the wires with something different.

 

[David15151]

Also another thing to take into effect, is EMI and EFI suppression, MSD, Accel, and NGK all use a good Suppression material. Where as Magnecor just puts a silicone coating on it. In a post above a set of magnecor wires that are only 15k old are already ARCING THROUGH THE WIRE! What kinda proof do you need, that these aren't the greatest wires. I'm not trying to plug Magnecor I'm just trying to give people info that they need to make their own reasonable decision.

 

[LaserDad91]

Please explain to us why (low = good, high = bad)....
Wow could this affect a (for example) 300 HP daily driven 4G63?
Explain why the resistance level makes such a big difference....
And how does this difference specifically affect performance?

What a statement!! If you do not understand a BASIC electrical circuit, quit whining and calling B/S, STFU, and learn something!! It was already posted previously, so READ! I get so sick of this crap!! Like they said go measure ‘em yourself!!

Someone is just trying to post fact backed by some DATA, other than a damn time slip and dyno read, and everyone is pissed off cause there $80 + spark plug wires are maybe, not the best???

No one is saying they are BAD, just that they have higher resistance than the some of the others.

BTW, I decided way before this, it either be the MSD’s or the ACCEL’s. I did order the MSD’s and they were not the right type for my 1G, and Horsepowerfreaks promptly addressed the issue, gave me shipping and refunded my money, very professional!!

I like the thread!! Don’t condemn someone for trying to provide useful information, just because that information may not agree with what you have!!

So, does anyone else know where we can get the MSD’s for a 1G?

 

[99gst_racer]

What a statement!! If you do not understand a BASIC electrical circuit, quit whining and calling B/S, STFU, and learn something!! It was already posted previously, so READ! I get so sick of this crap!! Like they said go measure ‘em yourself!!

Calm down dad. I do understand a basic electrical circuit. I just wanted to hear from the thread starter how it would significantly effect my car if I were to throw away the Magnecor's and buy some MSD's.


David15151 - If low resistance is good, (which I dont doubt) then why did Magnecor make theirs so high? I dont understand why they would purposely make their the worst for resistance. I'm not trying to be a D!ck. I've just seen alot of "incorrect" data pulled from the net, and I'm not the kind of person that believes the first thing I hear/read.

 

[David15151]

So, does anyone else know where we can get the MSD’s for a 1G?

http://www.dsm-performance.com/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=55

You could ask them if they fit a 1g.

, and I was looking why they only sold those.. and I quote

"Out of our personal experiences with the Magnecors, we no longer sell them. Three sets in five months on Ross' car alone was entirely too much to bear for plug wires that are $140 a set. The MSD 8.5mm wires that we now sell are just 40-50 Ohms per foot, look very similar for those who are into that thing, and we've never had a set or a single wire come back "bad". We use MSD wires on all of our cars and have for more than two years. Enough said. "

wait SBR has them too . http://www.slowboyracing.com/Ignition/wires/MSD/MSD_Ignition.html
(cheaper than first link)

 

[TDX]

Nice! Thanks for taking time and measuring the specs. MSD it is!

 

[LaserDad91]

Calm down dad.

I'm not the kind of person that believes the first thing I hear/read.

Understood. I kind of blew!

And I can respect the latter part of your statement.

I know you did not ask me directly but.........My guess on the resistance of the Magnacore would be related to the supression and maybe durability? Depending on how a wire is wound, you can cancel the magnetic field generated by the current flowing, not sure exactly how, but it can be done. I think this is the key to the MSD's. But that just an educated guess, which I should not post since I do not know exactly. .

Thanks for the link David15151

 

[David15151]

David15151 - If low resistance is good, (which I dont doubt) then why did Magnecor make theirs so high? I dont understand why they would purposely make their the worst for resistance. I'm not trying to be a D!ck. I've just seen alot of "incorrect" data pulled from the net, and I'm not the kind of person that believes the first thing I hear/read.

EMI suppression is accomplished either using higher resistance wires OR a fine copper-alloy wire spirally wound around a ferro-magnetic impregnated center core.
Usually, the problem with low resistance wires is that they can do a poor job of suppressing EMI generated by the ignition system. MSD Ignition, Accel, and other manufacturers, have solved this problem with careful design.

That translate to some brands like Magnecore are using the old way of higher resistance for EMI suppression while some other brands are using the new technology of fine copper-alloy wire spirally wound around a ferro-magnetic impregnated center core.

 

[99gst_racer]

EMI suppression is accomplished either using higher resistance wires OR a fine copper-alloy wire spirally wound around a ferro-magnetic impregnated center core.
Usually, the problem with low resistance wires is that they can do a poor job of suppressing EMI generated by the ignition system. MSD Ignition, Accel, and other manufacturers, have solved this problem with careful design.

That translate to some brands like Magnecore are using the old way of higher resistance for EMI suppression while some other brands are using the new technology of fine copper-alloy wire spirally wound around a ferro-magnetic impregnated center core.

Excellent, this is the stuff I like to hear. I have a few sets of MSD's on the shelf here. I'll pick up a set and give my car a tune-up next week. I haven't inspected my Magnecor's since I installed them, so they might need replacing.......

LaserDad - Part # for the MSD's for the 1G is 32699. I got them if you want them and I can beat ANY price. PM me.

 

[David15151]

Calm down dad.

Now that was funny!

I do hope though that this thread will put an end to the many many "what wires?" thread. Please reference this thread to future posts .

 

[99gst_racer]

David - I found some stuff while brousing Magnecor's site. I dont wanna stir anything up, but I had a few more questions.
"the term "EMI suppression," which was first introduced by Magnecor in 1989 to describe a major function of our KV85 and R-100 Race Wires which, at that time, had been re-engineered to overcome emerging EMI problems caused by the use of aftermarket "low-resistance" wires on electronically managed engines and vehicles that contain sensitive on-board electronic equipment, has now become a meaningless buzzword to include with other claims (few, if any of which are factual) our competitors make for their ignition wires in advertisements and other promotional material. Unfortunately, the claims that "low-resistance," "super conductor" and "built-in capacitor" wires are EMI suppressed are as factual as other claims made for the same wires such as: "300 times more powerful spark" — "30 times more spark energy" — "15 times more powerful" — "over 300% more spark energy" etc. etc. etc. . In reality, it is impossible for "low-resistance" spiral conductor and so-called "built-in capacitor" wires to properly suppress EMI "

Do you have any proof that the new technology low resistance wires have adequate EMI suppression? Magnecor's philosophy seems to be - the trade off of high resistance for proper EMI suppression is worth it.

Here's a little more info that I found. "A spiral conductor with a low electrical resistance measured by an ohmmeter indicates, in reality, nothing other than less of the expensive fine wire is used for the conductor windings — a construction which cannot achieve a clean and efficient current flow through the magnetic field surrounding the windings, resulting in poor suppression for RFI and EMI. Of course, ignition wire manufacturers save a considerable amount in manufacturing costs by using less fine wire, less exotic winding machinery and less expertise to make low-resistance spiral conductors. As an incentive, they find a lucrative market amongst performance parts marketers who advertise their branded ignition wires as having "low-resistance" conductors, despite the fact that such "low-resistance" contributes nothing to make spiral ignition wires perform better, and RFI and EMI suppression is compromised."

Every manufacturer claims theirs to be the best and they all have data to back up their claims. One has better "this" but the other has better "that". Here's the link I was using if anyone wants to read more. http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm

"In recent years, most ignition wire manufacturers, to temporarily improve their spiral conductor's suppression, have resorted to coating excessively spaced spiral windings, most of which are crudely wound around strands of fiberglass or Kevlar, with a heavy layer of high-resistance carbon impregnated conductive latex or silicone compound. This type of construction hides the conductive coating's high resistance when the overall conductor is measured with a test ohmmeter, which only measures the lower resistance of the sparse spirally wound wire (the path of least resistance) under the conductive coating and ignores the high resistance of the outermost conductive coating in which the spark energy actually travels. The conductive coating is rarely shown or mentioned in advertisement illustrations."

 

[David15151]

refer to post # 15

 

[99gst_racer]

Usually, the problem with low resistance wires is that they can do a poor job of suppressing EMI generated by the ignition system. MSD Ignition, Accel, and other manufacturers, have solved this problem with careful design.

Do you have proof? Older, non-computer controlled vehicles dont need EMI surpression, but our cars do. Do you have proof that the low-resistance wire manufactures solved the problem.....

 

[99gst_racer]

Many magazines have tested wires. They prove that magnecor wires are either barely better or worse depending on the car on a Turboed t3/t4 Civic they increased hp by 1.2 over stock where MSD and NGK both increased by 3.4 HP. Accel wires increased by 2.8 who's got the better wires?

"Claims of Horsepower Gain

Every brand of spiral conductor ignition wires will perform the function of conducting coil output to the spark plugs, but NONE, despite the claims made in advertisements and other promotional literature, will increase horsepower. Independent tests, including a test performed by Circle Track Magazine (see May, 1996 issue) in the USA, show that NO "low-resistance" ignition wires for which a horsepower increase is claimed do in fact increase horsepower - the test also included comparisons with solid metal and carbon conductor ignition wires.

In effect, (when new) a coated "low-resistance" spiral conductor's true performance is identical to that of a high-resistance carbon conductor."

btw - 2 years on a DD dsm is prob a tad to long

Actually, for me, 2 years = 2 summers. I only put 11K miles on my car in 2 years.

 

[David15151]

you see the problem with magnecore is they are using old technology still. That document was written a long time ago. I mean they are quoting magazine articles from 1996. I do think we have improved over 8 years no?

look at this.. pulled right from their truth document.

"To be effective in carrying the full output from the ignition system and suppressing RFI and EMI in particular, spiral conductors need windings that are microscopically close to one another and precisely spaced and free from conductive coatings. To be more effective, the windings need to be wound over a core of magnetic material — a method too costly for wires sold through mass-merchandisers and most speed shops who purchase only the cheapest (to them) and most heavily promoted products."

I think they obviously developed a way to do it by now.

Now look at this and tell me what you see.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[99gst_racer]

you see the problem with magnecore is they are using old technology still. That document was written a long time ago. I mean they are quoting magazine articles from 1996. I do think we have improved over 8 years no?

Yes, but some of today so-called "improvements" are simple gimmicks. Like with Nology's braided gounding wires.

I think they obviously developed a way to do it by now.

Maybe they did, maybe they didnt. I'm not going to guess. I want to see proof.
Our cars need effective and permanent EMI suppression and I have yet to see proof that a common low-resistance wire set can offer that.

Using the special winding around the magnetic core is more effective at EMI supression, but the effects are only temporary. See Below.

"The suppression achieved by this practice of coating the windings is only temporary, as the spark current is forced to travel through the outermost high-resistance conductive coating in the same manner the spark current travels through the outermost high-resistance conductive coating of a carbon conductor used in most original equipment and stock replacement wires."

The method used by MSD and many other is not a permanent way to supress EMI. There is yet to be a permanent way to supress EMI on a low-resistence wire set.

Low resistance is better that high, but when the difference or true performance is so small that it is un-noticable, then why does it matter?
"In effect, (when new) a coated "low-resistance" spiral conductor's true performance is identical to that of a high-resistance carbon conductor."

 

[David15151]

This is also in the Truth document by Magnecore

"Magnecor Race Wires' Metallic Inductive Suppressed Conductors are designed to carry the full output from all race ignitions, and are exclusively manufactured in Magnecor's specialized facilities with precision machinery and equipment, and include microscopically close spiral windings wound over ferrimagnetic cores. No conductive coatings are used over the spiral windings. Magnecor Race Wires' conductors are jacketed entirely with the highest temperature aerospace grade silicone rubber to resist the extreme temperatures generated by race engines."

hmm.. that sounds awfully close to the design shown on the picture of an MSD wire.

you say:
"In effect, (when new) a coated "low-resistance" spiral conductor's true performance is identical to that of a high-resistance carbon conductor."

This document seems very hypocritcal if you ask me.

 

[RunninVR4]

Ok, I've been reading this thread on and off... So I would just like to say that.

Here's a proven as it's going to get if your in doubt or don't know much about spark plug wires here's a good site to go to, to get a great idea of what we are talking about and what's going on. WIRE TESTS, DYNO PROVEN RESULTS There's even some dyno proof for you doubters

Personal exspierence with Magnecor wires is that they suck you pay a lot for them and get very little in return. A friend of mines E-manage was getting a weird reading from his TPS. So he was like wtf... He changed from Magnecor wires to Accel wires and guess what his TPS reads perfect.

I mean come on now do you want the stereo in your car to influence the current that's traveling through your spark plug wires. Or you spark plug wires to influence what certain readings your ECU sees? Now let's get real your not gonna gain .5 in the 1/4 but there's other advantages to better wires.

I mean it's good to not believe everything you hear and half of what you see. But there comes a time when your just beating on a dead horse. There's been countless amounts of fact backed data, from resistance readings to dyno charts!

 

[91boost]

I'm wondering what the Taylor ThunderVolt's are like.....

 

[99gst_racer]

hmm.. that sounds awfully close to the design shown on the picture of an MSD wire.

Yes, you are right. These wires have a very similar internal structure. The difference is resistance. MSD has a low resistance but only temporary EMI suppression. Whereas Magnecor has high resistance and permanent EMI suppression. Other than the EMI difference, these wires should function equally.

Here's a proven as it's going to get if your in doubt or don't know much about spark plug wires here's a good site to go to, to get a great idea of what we are talking about and what's going on. WIRE TESTS, DYNO PROVEN RESULTS There's even some dyno proof for you doubters.

If there is a problem with your existing plus wires and they are not operating up to par, and then you replace them with new ones and gain 3 HP, you didnt just "add" horsepower. They are not producing performance power by themselves. They simply function properly unlike the replaced defective wires. It's like using sh!tty 87 octane gas an then running good, quality 94 octane. You didnt add more HP to you car with the good gass. You simply replace the old defective 87 octane with a good clean up-to-par replacement.

There's been countless amounts of fact backed data, from resistance readings to dyno charts!

I'm not arguing the resistance readings. I'm simply stating that there is MUCH more important things to worry about than resistance. If it's worth it to you to supposedly "gain" 2 HP with low-resistance wires and take the chance of ruining electrical components from imporperly suppresses EMI's, then feel free and "add" your 2 ponys. I hope it's worth it. :thumbdown

Nology claimed their wires had "300 times more powerful spark". If you jump to believe their fact backed data on that, then you are one of the suckers they are aiming their product at.

 

[99gst_racer]

Lower resistance allows more current to be transferred to the spark plug.

That is a good thing, especially in high power applications.

We, as DSMers, dont need "more" spark. We only need enough. Spark is only one element needed to create combustion and the 6000 ohm Magnecor wires are proven to maintain conductance of full spark energy indefinitely without emitting EMI and to tranfer spark to the plugs. That is all we need wires for. And they are excellent for the average 300 HP DSM.