talon vs viper

[Antilles]

You should probably start a whole new thread on this, but in my opinion a GSX just doesnt make a good track car. On a road course the AWD hurts as much as helps, and the car is insanely heavy for that type of racing. I have done quite a bit of suspension modding on my AWD talon and it straight blows in the corners compaired to a lighter car.

If you are serious, I would say weight, brakes, and cooling are your three largest issues to overcome, in no particular order. They all need to be addressed.

I myself am in the process of buying a Miata for a track racer. The DSM is only good going straight IMHO.

Good luck,

Chris

 

[abrxy3]

3200 lbs too heavy for the track? if i recall correctly, both the sti and the evo weigh 3200 lb, and those cars handle like a dream

 

[Antilles]

Yep, they do. So do Vettes, and other cars of similar weight. Our cars dont. Even after (in my case) heavy suspension mods.

You really want a car thats around 2000 to 2500 lbs if you are really serious about it. 3200 lbs just doesnt change directions all that well, no matter what the packaging.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by airbrat



But when someone says how they beat a car that cost $70-80K that just sounds so childish.
You create this stereotype that if the car is expensive then it should be fast. Gimmie a frikkin break

NO a 70-80K sports car should be fast thats the point of it being a sports car. and it is fast, apparently his car is just faster. WOW what a concept.

 

[mule]

Antilles, thanks for the heads up, but when I said 3200 is heavy I just meant I was surprised at the weight in stock trim. If I get a GSX it will lose every bit of interior and unnecessar electronics. It will be trailered to the track. Your right on the mark with 2000lbs, but I guess I could settle for 2500lbs. The viper in full race trim (I've talked to a bunch of guys at the track) weighs in at 3100lbs! What a pig! I am also looking at the MR2 turbo of course. It seems the combo of about 350rwhp, or awhp, and 2000lbs makes a great track car. Of course add suspension goodies, big brakes, and those sweet ars Hoosiers. Anyone know how much weight is possible to be lost on the GSX?

abrxy3,
STI, EVO, Vette, Viper, it doesn't matter. If you want to see a good handling car go to a serious road course and watch 'gutted' 1985 mustangs destroy all of these cars.
My racing partner has a 4 door civic full race that weighs 1900lbs (with the cage) and he has to run Toyo something tires (rules of the Honda challenge class). At our last event he turned in a quick lap of 1:07 on 135 N/A hp. Some perspective; the quick lap of the AIX class (full race, Hoosier, 550hp mustangs) was 1:03, myself (viper) and another friend (2002 Z06) were able to muster a 1:17. Basically, if its street legal, it doesn't handle.

Also good advise, I will start a seperate thread on the GSX and a 'diet'.

 

[Antilles]

I think about 2400lbs is possible on an AWD DSM if you put in a cage and go nuts on the weight reduction. I have heard of rally guys pulling the motors to shave off unnecessary bracket material in the engine bay.

As far as car choice, its really all personal preference. I wouldnt use a DSM, and having driven mid engine cars, those just plain scare me. Hence my decision to buy a Miata.

 

[RipperXX]

Well i saw an NSX the other day, i wanted to turn around and chace him to race for the hell of it, even though i knew i would get my ass handed to me since im pretty much stock.. but i didn't...

and is it just me or do NSX's look to much like a frarrie?

 

[EkLiPsEd05]

there is a replacement for displacement, its called technology they have hybrid electric cars now that smoke vetts off the line and in speed thats technology there bud. and anyway the dude was only trying to say he beat a viper not that he hated all domestics give him a break and get the heck off a DSM site with your love for american cars. LOSER ur name whatever it is sounds like some kind of afgan man! Antilles=F A G

 

[Antilles]

I dont know what your deal is, but you sound like a god damned genius here with your misinformation and your poor spelling and grammer.
Most of all I dont know what the #### you are talking about. I dont know if you just picked a name out of your little hat and just started flaming, or really have no clue whatsoever as to whats going on. I never made any of the points you are arguing against. Why dont you add a quote to your flaming pile of bullshit before you start going off on people.

 

[gsxstac]

oooooooooooook 1st off the awd dsm is great for the 1/4 mile. it has short gear ratios, gets awesome launches all the time, is consitent, and very fun to drive. this is tunring into domestic vs import here but everyone is trying to make a disclaimer that they like both sides. so lets get to the point here

THIS WHOLE "NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT OUT OF DATE AND SLOWLY BECOMING EXTINCT. OBVIOUSLY THER EIS A REPLACEMENT CUZ A 2.0 WITH LESS THEN 8G'S UNDER THE HOOD JUST BEAT A 8.0. AND I;VE ALSO LEARNED THAT TORQUE REALLY MEANS NOTHING AS SOMEONE ELSE SAID. RX7'S MAKE NO TORQUE BUT RUN 9'S. SO THATS MEANINGLESS. HP DONT MEAN THAT MUCH EITHER. ANYONE HERE THIS JOKE :WHATS A 500HP, 600HP, 700HP AND A 800HP SUPRA ALL HAVE IN COMMON? THEY ALL RUN THE SAME 1/4 TIME. SAME THING WITH MUSTANGS. AND WHOSE THE IDIOT WHO SAID 4G'S IN A MUSCLA CAR WILL RUN 10'S??? MAYBE A RACE CAR U IDIOT. DSM'S ESPECIALLY AWD'S ARE ABOUT RUNNIN AT THE TRACK WHAT U RUN ON THE STREET. AWD'S DONT NEED SLICKS. THATS WHAT MAKES A LOW 12 SEC AWD DSM BEAT EVERYTHING ON THE STREET. CUZ PEOPLE ARENT RUNNIN SLICKS ON THE STREET. ON THE WAY TO THE MALL I WILL WALK ON A 800HP DOMESTIC BECAUSE WHEN HE SEES ME PUT 4 CAR LENGTHS ON HIM OFF THE LINE HE WILL PANIC AND FLOOR IT AND LOSE CONTROL. THIS HAS HAPPENED TO ME MANY MANY TIMES. DOMESTICS ARE OUT OF DATE. MORE POWER IS BEING MADE WITH SMALLER MOTORS. AND PLEASE EVERYONE STOP WITH THIS " MY UNCLE HAS A HEMI BARRACUDA RUNS 9'S SHIT" NO ONE CARES ABOUT UR DRUNK 45 YEAR OLD UNCLES POS THAT RAN 12'S 10 YEARS AGO WITH NO INTERIOR AND SLICKS INSIDE FAKE WHEEL WELLS MADE OUT OF BARRELS.

THE POINT OF THIS THREAD WAS THAT A FELLOW DSM MEMBER BEAT A VIPER WITH A 4 CYLINDER 2.0 ON THE STREET. I GIVE HIM ALOT OF PROPS. MY DAD HAS A 2000 VIPER GTS AND HE KNOWS I'LL GIVE HIM A RUN, HE'S DRIVEN MY CAR MANY TIMES. HE RESPECTS AND IT AND THATS WHAT ITS ABOUT.

BUT.... PUT EXHAUST, INTAKE, HEADERS AND A COUPLE OTHER THINGS INTO A VIPER AND YOU HAVE A LOW 11 SEC MONSTER.

PEOPLE, STOP HATING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[metabolic666]

finally someone who knows what im talking about. thanks for the props and for clearing up this whole mess. and what's up with the miata antilles? you cant be serious about buying one of those( this is wear i pass out from laughing) i really dont know what to even say about that. im not even going to touch it. thanks again gsxtac

 

[Antilles]

Originally posted by metabolic666
finally someone who knows what im talking about. thanks for the props and for clearing up this whole mess. and what's up with the miata antilles? you cant be serious about buying one of those( this is wear i pass out from laughing) i really dont know what to even say about that. im not even going to touch it. thanks again gsxtac

Im so hurt you dont approve

 

[turboeclipse008]

Auladan, people like you are the ones i like destroying the most. Little conceited bastards like you that think hummm i have a v8 my car is may faster the any 4 cylinder. It just so happens in regards to one of your previous idiotic statements you made about a stock GT w/ intake/ exhaust beating a gs-t w/ intake/exhaust. First of all why would you compare the 2 cars where one has 210hp stock and one has 260 & 302lb of torque, but since you did. I have a gs-t and when all i had my HKS exhaust and Injen intake i was pulling cars on my friends GT with Exhaust, intake, and a racing chip. So unless you acually learn something about DSM's i suggest not posting you retarded statements. AND FOR ALL THOSE PEOPLE HATIING ON THE GUY BEATING THE VIPER STFU! YOU GET PROPS FROM ME MAN, CONGRATS beating people like that are always the most fun!

 

[stjoetalon]

Most of you guys are closed minded morons.

Also, please learn how to type a thoughtful, punctuated post with complete sentences and paragraphs...you type with the same mentality as you think.

yo dawg stop hatin cuz notin beetz the AWD you vipers be slow an shit cuz my dad had a musclecar an it waznt shit dawg

 

[DSM90AWD]

Just got back from 3 weeks in Tokyo. I saw many a nice car.. AMG, Diablo, Maranello, couple Vipers and many EVOs, WRX, and Skyline GTRs.

Tell you what.. the guys driving the big$$ cars may be slower than a few of the fastest stripped down DSMs.. but damn if I'd pass on one if I had the dough. And the ladies these guys had riding gun.. oooofffaaaa!!!

Bottom line.. one does not buy an exotic solely for the 1/4 mile.

 

[born4music04]

Another thing you have to remember is that a lot of the old farts that own these big $$ cars don't even drive the things hard. Some of the guys that buy them just do it to show off all the money their worth or because their going through a mid-life crisis. This next statement is for all you guys that are in love with DSM's.

THE COOLEST THING IS A 17 YEAR OLD KID WITH A LITTLE 4 CYLINDER TURBO SMOKIN' A 48 YEAR OLD GUY WITH A $190,000 FERRARI.

I think if you don't like DSM's, then go watch TV and wish that you didn't have one instead of sitting on this site and talk shit about us who love the car. I say bring on any car. If I don't beat him, then I can have something to work for .

Bottom line: If you don't like DSM's, SHUT THE F*** UP!

 

[RichCaccese]

i mostly do research/lurking in these forums. i'm in the process of saving for my own whip, but in the meantime i'm taking in everything i can on this awesome site, gaining knowledge so when the time comes, i have an arsenal of info.
oh , ANYWAY...... i just want to say that this thread has been extremely entertaining; gsxstac topped it off though. ( i've never laughed so hard from a forum post before.)
keep up the good work peeps...

¤peace¤

 

[3NiGm4]

Originally posted by EkLiPsEd05
there is a replacement for displacement, its called technology they have hybrid electric cars now that smoke vetts off the line and in speed thats technology there bud. and anyway the dude was only trying to say he beat a viper not that he hated all domestics give him a break and get the heck off a DSM site with your love for american cars. LOSER ur name whatever it is sounds like some kind of afgan man! Antilles=F A G

First off, arnt DSM's domestics? I thought the main factory was in illinois... So that would make it an american car would it not? Now second, I'm pretty sure that a new 80k+ Viper is gonna have quite a bit of technology in it, these are advanced cars that push a lot of hp, and also these hugly expesive cars are way more reliable than a DSM pushing 20 psi on pump gas. No im not hating on DSMs, because I love mine more than anything even though I am constantly fixing it. But if I had the option for a sick looking and overall insane 80k sports car, im not even going to have to think twice, because just the potential for a "Big Discplacement" car is way higher than a 2.0 L sport compact that I bang my knuckles against every weekend.

BTW, many respects to anyone who can beat a viper, especially from a roll.

 

[racer]

CAR <----- This car here is NOT that expencive and it is also stock but it'LL WOOOOOOOOOOP any car out there no metter modified or not.Peace

 

[foolishfocus]

Racer did you just say that car is NOT expensive? I hope you were kidding! I'm pretty sure that $800,000 is pretty damn expensive. But it is a quad turbo w-16!

 

[racer]

o I tought it was only 80 000$ ma bad

 

[ProjectDSM]

OOOOhh, yeah those pissy little extra zero's present a huge problem when your talking 80,000 to 800,000 dinero's (no not dinners). Anyhow, Big congrats for pulling that Viper. Even if it was his mistake or not bottom line is, he gave respect to the little 4g63 that could and he probably didn't even know what the hell hit him (obvious by the arguement goin on in the car afterwards). As far as the arguement against V8's and what else not. Anytime I hang with or beat some jerk in a V8 I love it and usually the guy gets pretty pissed and runs off mad. Other times the guy stops and I get the "holy shit what was all that noise coming from your engine and why is your car so freakin fast", HA HA boost!!! Well I can respect that response more as I've given the same respect when I get roasted by anyone for that matter.

"HA HA, Boost."

My two pesos!!!

 

[azteck2]

you guys are forgetting that a GSX will beat any V8, V10 whatever muscle car you want with whatever horse power it has in the rain or snow! So there kinda is a replacement for displacement!

 

[Antilles]

you are lying to yourself. you ever drive a high hp AWD in rain or snow? your twice as likely to kill yourself as a 2wd vehicle. At least they have 2 wheels that stay in one place.

 

[Morphius]

Originally posted by mule
............. The kill story is lacking a lot of information.........

I tend to agree with the Mule. Lacking info. The ultimate problem here is proof. Basically, your word on the run. Fine. Props to you. At the same time, can you understand someones skepticism? Personally, I’m just left wondering if the other driver was really into the gas.

Regarding the rest of the posts:

Regarding amount of $ invested/ potential track nature. Here’s a question posted to those that have heavily modded their car. I purchased a 1970 Buick 455.. It’s good for about 425hp and 550 ft lbs torque at the crank. (bored, cammed, headers) all for $1500.

What $ amount have you put into your car to get that output?

Two equal hp engines, equal weight cars, who’d win the race? Why?



-DaimlerChrysler Engineer