T25 onto NT 1G

[JamesH]

I know I'm gonna catch a ton of flack for this. I have a fresh rebuilt NT 4G63. Recently acquired a T25 w/ manifold from a Galant. Yes I am going low boost on a NT. Flame on. I just need some info to go along with the flaming.

Are 1G and 2G (14b,T25) oil feed and return lines interchangeable? If not how can I make it work?
Are the 02 housings interchangeable? Hopefully?

Any help is appreciated. I did try searching but I can't find any info on people doing this that seems like solid info.

 

[Chaosweaver]

Why would we flame? People boost the NT 4G63 all the time . As for the oil feed/return questions I'm almost positive they aren't, you may have to buy some from extreme PSI.

 

[JamesH]

I'm trying to find conversion kits but I can't find anything solid as far as oil feed and returns. I am seeing 14B to 16G and T25 to 16G. I am not familiar with turbo compatiability.

So a T25 would be equal to "?" to go in place of a 14B.

And I still need a way to bolt up the exhaust. Can I use a 2G o2 housing w/ a 1G downpipe? O can I use a 1G o2 housing on a T25. I am very clueless w/o having parts in front of me. All I have is a T25 bolted to a 2G manifgold in front of me with no lines connected.

 

[805DSM]

The return line on both turbos are interchangable .. The feed line on them are different, on the T25 you would have to get a Feedline kit for. A Garret turbo

 

[EclipseTical]

the o2 housing will work also

 

[JamesH]

Okay. It is sounding better and better.

What kind of feedline kit do I need? 14B to T25? Why would anyone do that? .

And anyone have a 6 bolt oil pan and o2 housing laying around?

Thanks again.

 

[Dsmj89]

For the feed line - EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - Oil Feedline Kit (Oil Filter Location): Mitsubishi Eclipse 90-99

O2 housing shipped - 90-94 Eclipse 1G DSM O2 Housing Dump Tube Pipe 4G63: eBay Motors (item 280524685237 end time Jul-22-10 01:14:52 PDT)

 

[JamesH]

Now to run that feed line kit, do I need to Tee off my oil pressure sender? It says that kit relocates the feed to the filter housing.

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

You may want to just get a 14b, will be easier and you'll have some room to grow if you decide to run more boost down the road.

 

[Dsmj89]

Your oil pressure sender is on the other side of the oil filter assembly, on the side you would connect this oil feed, you would have to take out the allen looking plug that is on it since you have the nt block and then screw on the new fitting.

 

[JamesH]

Awesome. Thanks everyone for the help. Time to start ordering parts.

 

[KaLo_o]

what about an ECU.... i know you will need that along with the turbo MAF. is it just plug and play? or do you have to swap wireing harness? also how about the injectors selenoid, not sure the name for it i forget... the silver box on the top of the firewall

 

[JamesH]

I'm only gonna be pushing stock wastegate pressure which is roughly 7psi.

So temporarily I will be running a AFPR with a wideband for monitoring my a/f with stock NT injectors.

The silver box you are referencing is the injector resistor which I will need if I go to turbo injectors.

 

[97-gst]

the stock wastegate psi on my t25 was 10

 

[KaLo_o]

cool, i didnt know you could do that....i also have a non turbo, i thought about doing the same...i guess there is less involved than i though. what about the ECU ?

 

[JamesH]

the stock wastegate psi on my t25 was 10

Really?

Stock wastegate pressure or your boost w/ the BCS hooked up?

Most reading I'm seeing is it is roughly 8 psi and by the time it actually makes it to the motor I'd be seeing 6-7.

And I would recommend doing it properly w/ a turbo ecu, harness, maf, knock sensor, injectors, etc. But I have turboed my escort before with same boost, higher compression and a worse fuel system and never had any major concerns.

 

[knochgoon24]

The return line on both turbos are interchangable

Not exactly. To make a 14b fit a 2g return, you have to make the holes in the return line's flange slotted. I'm not sure if you can do the reverse to a 1g return.

 

[dsm-onster]

I also recommend going ahead and running the turbo ecu, injectors/risistor pack, and wiring in the turbo maf. Also the n/t fuel pump is smaller and flows much less. So if you bump up the fuel pressure to get more out of your n/t injectors, you're likely just going to run into flow issues at the pump. You don't need to do ALL in this writeup, 1g 2.0L dsm non-turbo to turbo conversion; but I certainly would run enough fuel and an ecu that will pull more timing than an n/t ecu considering you're running 9:1 CR with weak piston ring lands. It's easy to do this stuff because it bolts/clamps in for the most part. Folks GIVE away the 1g maf and stock fuel pump. The resistor pack is easy enough to get. Many times they sell WITH the 450cc injectors for a good price for the honda guys to pick up for their turbo conversions.

Also, retard your base timing 2ish degrees even if you're going to run the 1g ecu. The turbo ecu maps are shapped the way they are assuming you're running 7.8:1CR not 1.2CR higher. OR go ahead and invest in a decent FMIC. I ran into some knock issues when the temperature here in VA warmed up. Until I first pulled the base timing back a little; then put it back and ran a 22" X 9" X 2.5" Mishimoto intercooler.

You'll get more topend and a generally better powerband with the turbo intake cam. Something to help your t25, which already instaspools anyway. Stock turbo cams can be had for under $20 a piece. N/T exhaust cams are identical to 1990-1992 turbo exhaust cams.

 

[JamesH]

My complete setup was gonna be:

T25 on stock wastegate pressure (6-8 psi)
Stock NT ECU
Stock injectors
AFPR
Retard base timing 2 degrees
Run 93 octane
Temporarily run stock SMIC
Turbo fuel pump if I find one cheap
Stock NT longblock for now till I feel like tearing it back apart for turbo cam.

I just completely rebuilt the NT longblock about 5,000 miles ago unaware of my future intentions. I'm sure it can handle some low boost provided I keep the fuel flowing.

 

[dsm-onster]

Cams arn't a big deal. Glad to see you were looking into the fuel pump. I guarantee you'll be close to the fuel limit of your stock n/t pump, if you bump your pressure. You'd be better off with turbo inejctors and a resistor pack (which actully costs less than an AFPR). The higher the fuel pressure the lower the fuel pump flow.

Without a means to fool the ecu, if you up the base pressure enough to run a turbo with stock n/t injectors, you will have lots of rich colsed loop issues and your fuel mileage will suffer enough to where you couldhave saved the gas money for a turbo ecu to control turbo injectors with in a month.

Just giving you some "been there done that" advice. I did a 13g n/t setup. First with a sidemount and stock fuel (not good). Then I raised fuel pressure with a spare aeromotive, thinking that I could get maybe just enough fuel there but still be within the ecus range of self adjustment. Nope. And I ran out of fuel up top enough to crack a ringland at 8psi. I pulled the bad piston and replaced it. Swapped in the turbo ecu/maf/R-pack/injectors/knock-sensor and it ran fine for a while until it warmed up to about 90 out here. Cracked 2 more pistons. Because of 5-7 counts of knock. That's all! I'm VERY sure if I had swapped in my FMIC in have on it now it would have been fine. Or if I pulled a few degrees of timing. The N/T ecu has FAR more aggressive timing than the 1g turbo ecu. It's setup for an n/t motor. So this was my final result after all that:

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While I had it apart the second time, I put in 1g turbo pistons. But Like I said, you'd be fine pulling the timing a couple of degrees. As long as you're not running the VERY aggressive n/t ecu for a turbo application, and as long as you have enough fuel. OR you can run a decent FMIC with the turbo ecu and those high CR, low tolerance n/t pistons and still keep the base timing the same. The first choice is more affordable and you already have the sidemount apparently.

BTW, I run automatic 390cc injectors and the auto ecu with that car. Runs great! And is plenty of injector for the 13g or t25. The 390s are quite a bit less expensive than the 450s. And the auto ecu is typically less expensive as well. Although there's enough room in the ecu's self closed loop tuning to run the 390s with the 47psi n/t fuel regulator for them to run fine with the turbo manual ecu.

BTW, Yes, I think the wastegate pressure of a t25 is 10+ psi.

Waht are you doing for IC piping? Are you going to run a bypass valve?

 

[JamesH]

Cams arn't a big deal. Glad to see you were looking into the fuel pump. I guarantee you'll be close to the fuel limit of your stock n/t pump, if you bump your pressure. You'd be better off with turbo inejctors and a resistor pack (which actully costs less than an AFPR). The higher the fuel pressure the lower the fuel pump flow.

Without a means to fool the ecu, if you up the base pressure enough to run a turbo with stock n/t injectors, you will have lots of rich colsed loop issues and your fuel mileage will suffer enough to where you couldhave saved the gas money for a turbo ecu to control turbo injectors with in a month.

All very true. My problem is Budget. I bought this car for $400 and did the rebuild for around $400.

To me it's not worth buying everything a turbo car has w/o just buying a turbo car. That is why I plan on staying low boost w/ a low budget. Not saying I won't run into issues. I'm positive I will. Unfortunately I have always been the live and learn type of person.

What will likely happen is I will run a bumped up pressure on NT injectors and stock NT ECU. I will be datalogging all this. And then going from there. This won't all even be assembled in a day. It is also my DD so I need to iron out any install issues I have first.

Day 1 will probably be installing the turbo,manifold, oil feed and return lines, oil pan, and exhaust. (No Piping)

Day 2 will then consist of piping install and cruising under 3,000 rpms.

Day 3 will be the AFPR and Fuel pump followed by much datalogging.

In a perfect world that is....

 

[Spades]

Might want to consider adding a meth spray in that thing... it works wonders

 

[JamesH]

So your saying fuel wise I could run:

Auto Turbo ECU
390 injectors
NT FPR


Would I need a turbo MAF as well or could I use the NT?

Also I have a 90 so I am imagining I'll need a early date ECU. Any clue where I can find any of this?

 

[dsm-onster]

Yes. Yes you can also run the 5speed turbo ecu with 390cc injectors and the n/t FPR and have even better fuel trims. So you're not limited to finding a particular tranny model. Just be sure it's turbo. And to easy your troubles look for a 1990 version. Here's the PROPER way to run a 1991+ ecu in a 1990 car: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-electrical-wiring/302812-1991-1994-ecu-swap-into-1990-dsm-ignition-wiring.html

And Yes, you would need the turbo maf for all turbo ecus. They sell for $20

So drop the cost of a $170 AFPR and get a turbo ecu plus injectors/R-pack/maf all for about $200, if you're going to get 390s. You have to get a turbo fuel pump regardless of how you do this setup, IMO.

Besides if you bump the fuel pressure enough to get the n/t injectors to flow enough for turbo duty, you will have serious issues with gas mileage unless you get an SAFC or other fuel controller.

BTW, you will throw a CEL if you don't install a knock sensor. But the car will run fine without it. Actually on more conservative maps I believe. Which is a great thing considering you're running 9:1CR and don't need as much timing to get the power .

 

[JamesH]

Okay did some quick pricing through dsm trader. Cheapest prices I could find with parts that still work.

90 ECU $50
450cc Injectors $45
R-Pack $30
MAS (Any 1G turbo work?) $15
Fuel Pump $10

Plus mechanically I still need:

O2 housing $15
Turbo Downpipe $?
Oil Feed $30
Oil Return $20
Turbo Oil Pan $35
Stock Piping Kit $20
Stock BOV $10

I think that's it....

Looking around $280. Hopefully.