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Supercharger/turbo setup....

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TT_NS

15+ Year Contributor
203
1
Dec 2, 2003
all right guys i got an interesting setup. i drew up two diagrams for the 1g dsm with a supercharger and a turbo. one is more basic then the other. on the first set up i have the turbo connected before the supercharger. The reason for this is that it is a simpler set up. You would not half to worry about "back wash" if you would. The idea behind this set up is that the supercharger would simply suck air threw the same intake as the turbo. giving the engine boost while the turbo is taking its time spooling up. then when the turbo spools up it will increase boost. Although i find this a really crapy set up LOL. There would be so much air friction going on in this. First from the turbo being in the way of the supercharger and visa versa. So i thought id try something a little more interesting. Then i came up with the second diagram. In this one the supercharger has its own intake which will reduce friction. But this is where i run into a problem. When the boost being created transfers from the supercharger to the turbo i need to release all pressure being created by the supercharger so i can close off that entire area with a valve that will prevent the turbos pressure from being pushed back out the supercharger. Make since? Dose any one know of a anything that works like a BOV but releases under certain pressure? Any way the pressure from the turbo will shut the valve to the supercharger. hope you can picture how that would work. I was also thinking for either application i could fabricate a pulley or use the one off the A/C on the car so the Supercharger could be turned off and on by a clutch just like the A/C. Although i wouldn't have any idea how i could control the relay from turneing off and on without me hitting a button. that might be to complex for me. I noticed if you take out the A/C you have plenty of space for a Vortech supercharger in that area. That is my plan. Its nice to come up with something a little different then what other people are doing. Just another way to get the power so please don't bash the idea. But let me know some ideas you guys come up with. This would take allot of fabrication but im up for the work.:thumb:
 

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Roots style blower at 30psi? Bet that heats some air. good job tho.You see that site with the duel charged i4 volvo engine in a opal? Work of art.
 
The blower doen't run at 30 psi. The blower makes around 10 by itself, the turbo makes the rest, it is really better to talk about this in pressure ratios, as psi is realitive. So that being said, the supercharger runs at a steady ~ 1.6 pr. So to calculate manifold boost pressure multiply the incoming absolute pressure (14.7 = 1 atm) by the pressure ratio and subtract atmospheric pressure. I can try to explain the more later, I gotta run right now, later guys, thanks for the cool questions and the interest.
 
Thats crazy, props for you for trying new things, i cant wait to see more pics of both the supercharged car and the TT
 
lots of props for this one...love the idea...cant wait to see the numbers and the reliability of the whole thing :thumb:
 
If you're making 500 lb/ft of torque at 5500 RPM's that would be over 520hp. I'd really like to see some dyno sheets that show 500 lb/ft of torque at 3500 rpm's as well, thats pretty impressive
 
I like to, what is it? Fourth or so to see pics of the TTV6 TSI. All very good ideas. Mr. RayPeters I wonder, how is it that you know all this stuff? What do you do for a living? Rocket Scientist? Engineer?
 
The pics of the TT are for another day, and another thread. To answer the wisemen, I agree if I held the boost to 5500, I should have those numbers, but I don't hold the high boost that far. I'll get some dyno pulls soon, then we'll all know if my math is right and if all of this is worth the trouble. All it takes is $$ and time. I got some videos and stills from the DSM meet tonight, as soon as I get them hosted I'll post a link.
 
props on running it setup like that,
I didnt think of running the SC without some sort of clutch.
What are your intake temps after the SC at X boostxrpm?
with/without meth/water ect.

that 1.6 ratio SC like you said, I looked at the pdf on one of those links and
all I saw was a 2.0,

think even lower comp pistons would help?


waiting for more pics!
 
The engine managment is stock 1g eprom ecu with a seriously hacked version of the 1g disassembled code. the ignition map has been the hardest to get right, even with methanol injection low rpm detonation is a real danger and effective compression ratios near 16 to 1 on boost don't help. I may have serious issues here in phoenix in the summer when engine bay temps soar.


Are you saying your running 16.1 compression pistons on the v6 talon, or twin charger talon?
I dont see how your not knocking if that is truely your compression ratio. Perhaps taking off that aircan in the picture would help pull a little more air, and maybe running a custom cold air intake or something.? This is awsome, i love originallity. Reguardless of how much power you have its still incredible. I bet the v6 talon is a monster but that handling I can imagen would be somewhat goofy considering you dropping a heck of a lot more weight up front.
Both of these cars MUST be awd Id assume. You should to fully build up that engine on the twin charger one and upgrade it to with stand more boost/revs... I wonder what going stroker would be like on it LOL youd can get some incredible times with the no lag factor?

With the supercharged one, what did you do with the intake manifold?

Overall you get a A for effort !!!!
and a A+ for having the balls to attempt either jobs :thumb:
 
Are you saying your running 16.1 compression pistons on the v6 talon, or twin charger talon?

I said the effective compression ration is 16:1. The static cr (which is what everyone normally talks about is 7.8, stock 1G. The 16:1 is only under full boost.

I dont see how your not knocking if that is truely your compression ratio. Perhaps taking off that aircan in the picture would help pull a little more air, and maybe running a custom cold air intake or something.?

The aircan is hacked enough, I'm trying to keep the hot air from the rad fan out of there. I've put a differentail pressure gauge in the intake and only see a couple of inches of vacuum.

This is awsome, i love originallity. Reguardless of how much power you have its still incredible. I bet the v6 talon is a monster but that handling I can imagen would be somewhat goofy considering you dropping a heck of a lot more weight up front.
It has been difficult to get the v6 car to not understeer like a pig, but making the front wheels 2 inches wider than the rears makes it feel good, although it still doesn't corner as well as a setup stock 1g.
Both of these cars MUST be awd Id assume.

Yes.

You should to fully build up that engine on the twin charger one and upgrade it to with stand more boost/revs... I wonder what going stroker would be like on it LOL youd can get some incredible times with the no lag factor?

I'm working on it, I got an engine in process, but I had decided to blow up a stocker if this didn't work rather than lunch a big $$ engine for nothing.



With the supercharged one, what did you do with the intake manifold?

Lots of cutting and welding :thumb:

Overall you get a A for effort !!!!
and a A+ for having the balls to attempt either jobs :thumb:

Thanks for the kudos, I'll get this hammered into something useful for the street guys. I'd like to hear some comments from guys using dsmlink, I'll start a new thread later today.
 
PICTURES, and yes nightspeed he said he was running only 7.8:1 1g pistons and it looks like he just made a custom supercharger intake mani. Pretty freakin sic.

I saw in a magazine a Non turbo MR2 4 cylinder(stonger chassis than the turbo version). They dropped a Camry V6 into it and supercharged/turboed it. It had full boost by 2000rpms and made over 450whp. The car was awesome.
 
*Ray* Drop me a PM if you'd like FTP access to my site to host the vids. I can also edit if you like. I'll PM you my number later today.

To give you guys some ide of just what kind of guy Ray is, he drove this car as sweep at the Prescott Rally back in October. So, since mid-October, he's managed to put this together. I think that's testament right there.

I helped shoot the video and we've got footage of the engine bay with everything running, in-car footage doing some mild pulls, as well as footage of the logger screen (which could be posted without video). What was surprising about this car was just how smoothly it accelerated. Everyone knows when their turbo gets up to steam, but in this car, you really can't tell. (At least I couldn't.) Even a 3rd gear pull from something like 20mph, the Talon just pulled itself right to the top of the tach. There was no lugging or lagging at all.

This will be a cool project to keep tabs on. :thumb:

Link to pictures I took from the DSM_SW meet last night featuring this set up and some of the local Galants.
 
I said the effective compression ration is 16:1. The static cr (which is what everyone normally talks about is 7.8, stock 1G. The 16:1 is only under full boost.



The aircan is hacked enough, I'm trying to keep the hot air from the rad fan out of there. I've put a differentail pressure gauge in the intake and only see a couple of inches of vacuum.


It has been difficult to get the v6 car to not understeer like a pig, but making the front wheels 2 inches wider than the rears makes it feel good, although it still doesn't corner as well as a setup stock 1g.


Yes.



I'm working on it, I got an engine in process, but I had decided to blow up a stocker if this didn't work rather than lunch a big $$ engine for nothing.





Lots of cutting and welding :thumb:



Thanks for the kudos, I'll get this hammered into something useful for the street guys. I'd like to hear some comments from guys using dsmlink, I'll start a new thread later today.


Thanks for answering all my questions in the way you did Ray. Normally ppl tend to only remember the last sentence and dont thoroughly answer the whole post.
Your car is amazing, I am also curious who the supercharge handles the turbo charged air, and would like to see in action videos of it and the TT 3kgt talon.
How does the car feel in comparison to before getting the supercharger on there?
Would you say your twin charger talon is faster than your TT 3kgt Talon?
Hows the power band/ pull of the TT 3kgt one feel like? Real torquey Id imagen.:thumb:
 
Though that it couldnt be done? I met a guy in a recent meet here in AZ and guess what? He's got a nice 1gb with a Twin-Boosted 4G63. Sick!!!

Picture says more than a thousand words so i wont talk anymore;

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I dont know much about this setup on DSMs, but i know about a subaru. BTW, he's license plate said "GOT LAG" how ironic. Anybody heard about this done on any other dsm?
 
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