stumped on a no crank issue

[johneclipse]

I've been trying to get my car running the past few months. Finally got it to the point of cranking and driving. drove it ~15 miles and popped an intercooler pipe off{causing the car to buck...i thought on a true SD car intercooler pipes wouldn't matter?}. Let it sit for 2 days, went back out, re tightened the pipe. tried to crank it and it wouldn't crank, it would just turn over and not fire. Now i know its getting spark, as well as fuel{possibly to much fuel for some reason...link is setup for injector size and everything}. i was thinking the gas was just horrible in it, i drained 95% of the gas that was in it today, added a gallon of fresh 91 oct and a small amount of seafoam{for any water and to stabilize the old fuel in it.} car still wont fire...

Also, the Cam timing marks are lined up damn near perfectly.
Link is not showing any DTC's. CEL comes on then turns off like normal{on key turn}. All fuses under the hood appear to be good. I'm gonna try new plugs and wires tomorrow...but its getting spark so i dont know.

any other ideas as to why it wont crank?

car is a 90 GSX by the way.

 

[Gs Dewd]

Okay I think what your trying to say is it won't start. It cranks but not starting right? How did you check for fire and fuel? What is telling you you are getting to much fuel? That could actually be what is happening and you fouled the plugs to the point they won't fire.

 

[johneclipse]

Okay I think what your trying to say is it won't start. It cranks but not starting right? How did you check for fire and fuel? What is telling you you are getting to much fuel? That could actually be what is happening and you fouled the plugs to the point they won't fire.

yes, it will crank but not start as you put it.

Checked for spark by doin the old "pull plug and wire, lay on VC, turn car over and watch for spark". after trying to crank 3-4 times, i pulled a plug and say liquid gas ontop of piston number 1. Also a strong smell of gas.

 

[Tyeler18]

Oooo I love these (spent 2 weeks diagnosising my 90 TSI no start). What color is the spark? Definitely could've fouled out plugs. Does it chug like it's going to start or just crank crank crank? Post up a log of you starting the car (using link) and we'll go from there. I've got a few ideas that a log will show for sure.

 

[johneclipse]

Oooo I love these (spent 2 weeks diagnosising my 90 TSI no start). What color is the spark? Definitely could've fouled out plugs. Does it chug like it's going to start or just crank crank crank? Post up a log of you starting the car (using link) and we'll go from there. I've got a few ideas that a log will show for sure.

spark is a bluish spark. the plugs are definately fouled now. it will (crank crank crank chug crank crank crank crank chug). the problem with posting a log of starting the car, link "disconnects" when the key is in the "start" position. I'll try to get it to take one tomorrow

 

[Tyeler18]

Ok actually just get me a log of whatever you can. I have a feeling your coolant temp sensor is out.

 

[saechao04]

I have the same issue, i've narrowed it down to either my cas or coolant temp sensor. If the coolant temp sensor is bad, i'd read something like -74 degrees and just dump fuel and foul up the plugs and may not start, from my research. I know you don't have a 2g here are some things to test. I do see that you have link so check to see what it says for your coolant temp, it should read just about what the ambient temp is.

Spark gets generated on a 2g using the following (note: CAS and CPS may have slightly different voltage ranges on pin 2 for 95-96 dsm but they will not be 0):

- For a quick go/no go test of all ignition components before the coil: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newb...#post151297987

- Coil test: Ignition problem - Ignition problem

- PT: Power transistor test: How to test the power transistors

- CAS: Cam angle sensor test: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newb...#post151265251

- CPS: Crank position sensor test: same as cam angle sensor except pin 2 is blue/white and it's crank voltage is 0.4-4.0V while idling is 1.5-2.5V

- ECU test: Check if caps inside are leaking or rotten egg smell and/or swap with known good one. Troubleshooting fried ECU components

- Spark plugs: Appearance: Spark Plug Diagnosis, FAQ: Spark Plug FAQ. Test by removing each plug, reattaching the spark plug cable, then (wearing rubber gloves and insulated shoes (don't stand in water)) hold the plug's outer electrode (or threads) against the head (ground) while cranking engine. Make sure there is spark and it's not weak. When done also check plug for cracked insulation or damaged electrodes.

- Spark plug cable test: Measure resistance of each end to end while bending them all over (to check for an open). Resistance should be 22k ohms max on a 2g (11k on 1g). If engine idles, wearing rubber gloves and insulated shoes (don't stand in water) you may first want to disconnect, one at a time, each of the spark plug cables while engine is idling. If the engine performance does not change, check that cables resistance and the spark plug itself. You can also check for spark jumping to ground from cable or coil by watching them in the dark while racing engine.

- Filter capacitor: The filter capacitor sharpens the coil's input pulse and reduces input pulse ringing both of which enhance the coil's output. It also reduces electrical static generated by the coil and alternator on the +12v line. It rarely fails but has been known to happen. Sometimes it intermittently fails (partially shorts) with temperature which can severely affect spark. Other times it just gets old and loses it's capacitance which usually shows up as increased static in the radio. The filter capacitor is a small cylindrical tin can bolted to intake manifold driver's side with 1 wire coming out of it. You can check it by just unplugging it and noticing effect (especially if it is failing with temperature).

compiled by luv2rallye

 

[johneclipse]

Ok actually just get me a log of whatever you can. I have a feeling your coolant temp sensor is out.

through link a bad coolant temp sensor should be reading like -80 or so right? ill slap the laptop on first thing in the morning and check that.

 

[Tyeler18]

Like the guy above said, -74 is a bad coolant temp. Sounds just like your problem.

 

[johneclipse]

ill post back my findings in the A.M. its 1:00 in the morning here and sleep is calling my name

 

[eclipsalon]

i had the same prob, fixed it with new plugs!! mine also sparked and everything!

 

[rallyturbo]

sounds like the coolant temp sensor to me thats what my car did for the longest time. after you get it warmed up it would start just fine but until then you where testing the durability of your starting system ALOT!

 

[johneclipse]

Finally got an idle log. put new bosh copper plugs gapped at .28 in the car, raised fuel pressure slightly and she finally fired up. but still doesn't wanna move. Whenever i tap the gas at all the whole car bucks and doesn't move.

heres the log before cranking. Once my laptop charges again{stupid dell battery only has a couple minutes of play time without the charger on it} ill get one of free rev'ing.

 

[saechao04]

hmm, I can't seem to view the file with link, weird. Do you have the firing order correct after the new spark plugs?

 

[johneclipse]

hmm, I can't seem to view the file with link, weird. Do you have the firing order correct after the new spark plugs?

firing order is good, didnt change it.

the log opens fine with my link off the sight. are you running the newest firmware?

got a new log. cold start to normal operating temp(180).

see anything out of the ordinary aside from the idle at 1800 rpms for some reason?

 

[saechao04]

Downloaded the new firmware and I don't see anything in the logs except that its idling a bit high. I can't think of anything except firing order, but you already checked though. Are you sure all the cylinders are firing?

 

[johneclipse]

Downloaded the new firmware and I don't see anything in the logs except that its idling a bit high. I can't think of anything except firing order, but you already checked though. Are you sure all the cylinders are firing?

yep, they're all firing....i'm starting to think part of the bucking is my trans mount on the fender side. its worked itself loose. gonna try and drill and tap the holes for some bigger bolts for more "securing" power

 

[saechao04]

Did you figure out what was wrong with it?

 

[johneclipse]

not yet, still dont know why it wont move....

 

[johneclipse]

ok, slight update. it turns out its running SUPER lean at 1500-2500 rpms,, which is why it wont allow me to take off. now i have to figure out how to set speed density to counter that

 

[saechao04]

Cool, glad you figured it out, I know nothing about tuning so can't help you there.

 

[johneclipse]

another small update. reset injector size to stock 450s with my 550s in the car. car runs slightly better but still has a hesitation taking off. Im hoping its just my messed up AFPR, new one should be here this weekend and we'll see

 

[saechao04]

I got mine to finally start today also! Turns out my CAS was out of position, once I got it started it idled real rough and my friend started adjusting my CAS and it smooth out the idle. If somehow you're CAS got out of position, it could be that. Hope you figure it out.