Stock 6 bolt rods, Forged aftermarket pistons?

[looseboost]

Hello all, I am in the process of ordering the parts to assemble my 1g 6bolt 4g63, and I am looking to upgrade the pistons, as i was going to use the stock ones whereas a little extra money fell in my lap I see people using different cast pistons with the stock 6 bolt rods, Im wondering is there any issue with forged pistons on the stock rods and does anyone have suggestions for said pistons, i can spend around $500. Thanks in advance

 

[My1GLaser]

Stock rods are press fit wrist pins, and aftermarket forged rods are floating pin design. You'll have to pay to get the pistons and wrist pins taken off the old rods. I'm not a machinist, but I'm sure there is a way to make the floating pin design work. There is a cost I'm sure. Then you'll want arp rod bolts, have to get the big end measured and resized, then you'll want them shot peened, blah blah blah. $250 later you should have spent $350 on some forged rods...

What are your HP goals and reason for wanting to go forged? You may be better off saving the money and putting it elsewhere in your build. I never needed a forged motor even at 550hp. It is nice to have 9:1 CR running E85, but I could have saved a bunch of money and ran a bone stock motor with my current HP.

 

[WES_393]

^ Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

What they said^

My not-quite-stock OE 6-Bolt Piston/Rod rebuild is in the car at the moment for dyno time tomorrow if that makes you feel better!

On the new setup in my signature, previously it survived a 59mm T4 Borg @ 38psi. So even though its on low boost for now.. fingers crossed this time

 

[BogusSVO]

Yes Forged floating pistons can be hung on the stock press fit rod.

The pistons can be used as a press fit.

Or the rod can be made full floating.

Either way would be a waste of forged pistons on stock rods.

If you keep the stock rods, stay with the NPR pistons.

If you go forged pistons, save money up and get a set of H beams.

So, I am going to throw my .02 cents in the pile with My1glaser, Wes_393, and Landspeed

 

[jayson427]

I would say a good suggestion would be get dsm link instead of spending 400+ on pistons. It would be a lot better then a Shiney piston you will never see once the motor is together. Dsm link would help you alot more.

 

[Boostdriven]

If this is still available I would be looking in to buying this setup. Arias pistons alone cost over $500+shipping and I'm sure those rods are not cheap either.

Arias 8.5:1 .020 pistons/Scat rods - DSM Classifieds

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Yes Forged floating pistons can be hung on the stock press fit rod.

The pistons can be used as a press fit.

Or the rod can be made full floating.

Either way would be a waste of forged pistons on stock rods.

If you keep the stock rods, stay with the NPR pistons.

If you go forged pistons, save money up and get a set of H beams.

So, I am going to throw my .02 cents in the pile with My1glaser, Wes_393, and Landspeed

OP:

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You're in good hands!

 

[looseboost]

Ok, you guys cleared some things up for me, I suppose the reason I wanted to upgrade pistons is because while I was able to get the stock ones pretty clean I still felt uncomfortable reusing them, I know the cast options are pretty stout however thru my research I've encountered conflicting opinions about which ones to use (Itm,npr, topline,dnj) Some apparently being Chinese rip offs, I figured I'd go with what I know.. forged, so with that being said I need either new rods or quality cast pistons. Any suggestions? Thank you all for your help so far. Not building a race car just a stupid fast dd

 

[BogusSVO]

As far as the cast pistons go, NPR is commonly accepted as the OE/factory piston brand.

Many suppliers will just rebox NPR pistons into there name plate box.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/468885-balancing-63dt-npr-pistons.html

 

[looseboost]

The local machine shop just quoted me $180 to balance the crank, pistons and rods, Im familiar with v8 balancing not so much for the 4's or how necessary it is, I assume that the added weight of forged rods and pistons would make balancing even more crucial, I wonder if keeping the stock rods and buying a new set of 1g or even 2g pistons would negate the balancing process? The car ran fine but smoked like a chimney, once it was apart i found that rings were the culprit, I have always been a fan of dsm's really just want a fast dd I can gradually upgrade another reason for a strong bottom end, feeling like my wish list is bigger than my budget..

 

[My1GLaser]

BogusSVO just did a write up about how far off a great deal of stock rods actually were straight from the factory. I'd say balancing is a good idea, but you might find that the stock rods are too far out of whack and would need too much removed to balance properly. A 400hp dd doesn't need a forged motor! Hell you can probably run 500hp with no issues and a good tune, then start replacing drivetrain parts! I built a motor for a friend with NPR pistons and he ran an evo3 16g at 25-26psi with no issues. I didn't get it balanced and used the stock 6 bolt rods. Just don't rev it to the moon!

 

[BogusSVO]

D'oh! I forgot about that thread....

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/468882-look-stock-rod-weights.html

From balancing a few 4g63 engines, the crank is fairly close in most cases.

since most stock rod engines are "budget" engines, making sure the rods and pistons are close will smooth an engine out.

Having the full rotating engine assembly balanced if nice, but not always needed.

When I have a full engine balanced, I like to have the balancer, crank, rods, pistons, flywheel and pressure plate. This way everything is indexed and will provide the smoothest running engine possible.

 

[looseboost]

Thank you all I truly appreciate your responses, I read Bogussvo's thread on stock rods and think it's amazing how different the weights can be on 1 engine! As far as my build I'm kinda lost I could shell out the green for forged parts but wonder if it's feasible for my goals, I do know that since the engine is out and apart I want to do everything right and only once.. Guess I got some more thinkin to do.

 

[BogusSVO]

If you could clear up more of what you are wanting from your car, other than a fast DD.

Suggestions can be made on what you need, what you do not need and the best bang for the buck.

If you are going to run a 16g or 20g, pump fuel, and smaller cams, then a stock rod engine will get you there,

If you going HX40, 6266 or something along those lines, a stock rod engine will not last too long once the wick is turned up.

 

[91whiteGSX]

I went with 6 Bolt rods /Evo 9 pistons although I didn't save any money going that way $400 for the pistons alone but I thought they would be good for my goals with a 20G on pump 93 .. I beleave its 8.4.1 so they say

 

[looseboost]

Here is whats goin on.. the head is at the machine shop and so is the block, the engine will need EVERYTHING, Im on a bit of a time crunch as i have to move. The reason for my original post is because I know I will be throwing parts at this thing once its up and running and I would hate to have to pull the engine out again for work i could have done originally, however since the engine does need everything.. and I do have to move... and I don't have a bottomless budget im tryin to not spend too much out side of my allotment. Understanding that its all in the tune id like to safely make around 400-450hp, it would see a couple track days, maybe a little light to light action (in Mexico of course ) and then get me to and from work. open to any resolutions thanks again.

 

[BogusSVO]

Simple stock rod budget that will no kill the budget

NPR rings and pistons
Stock rods weight matched
King bearings
Felpro HG 9627PT
Full set of gaskets
ARP head studs
OE stubby shaft for BSE
Remove crank balls
Polish/grind crank as needed
Deck block
Block oil mod
Hone or bore block as needed for wear/taper
Inspect front case/oil pump- Rebuild/replace as needed

Basic valve job the head
CBN surface head
check guides
New valve springs (BC1100 w/stock retainers)
Vition blue valve seals
Oil port mod 1

Gates/OE timing belt
Mitsu Auto tenstioner
new water pump
new timing pulleys


That will give you a decent build and still support 400hp with proper turbo, fuel injectors and tune,

 

[looseboost]

Bogussvo your the man . I was curious about the crank balls so I decided to do some research and felt it would be better to be safe than sorry so I sent the crank for a slight polish and ball removal ;-) they were somewhat reluctant as they say those are hard to get out, perhaps you could point me to a thread about the oil port mods, I will try to post some pics of the stock pistons and rods for opinions on usage they did clean up well although 1or 2 have a slight catch on the wrist pin. @ Boostdriven the deal on those Aries looks sweet however I'm unsure of the bore size, my block was in great shape so I opted for a hone instead of boring. Just wanna say thanks again to everyone who contributed to this thread.

 

[looseboost]

Resolved. Thank you all

 

[BogusSVO]

Here is my link list.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/450429-bogussvo-how-links-other-info.html

The oil port mods are in there