still running rich at wot???

[TurboTJ]

I have been running very rich at wot throttle. After a previous post, I swapped out the IAC and bought a data logger. I put a new IAC in this morning and it didnt fix the problem. It did make it slightly better though. I also cleaned the throttle body. Timing is 10-12 degress at WOT and AFR is 10:1. There are no boosts leaks and no CEL. Any ideas what could be causing this??? I have an evo III 16G at 9PSI with a 32" x 12" x 4" FMIC and full 3" exhaust.

thanks for the help!

 

[oldman]

How did you test for leaks? What are the detailed results of your leak test?

 

[TurboTJ]

Built a boost leak tester. Then pressurized the system up to 22PSI on the boost gauge. It slowly lost pressure but I couldn't hear it coming out anywhere.

 

[oldman]

Why do you think you're running rich? What are your fuel mods?

 

[TurboTJ]

I have an AEM wideband.

I have also messed with the BISS screw. I dont know if that can change anything.

The thing that makes me think that it is not a boost leak is my electronic boost controller broke and I overboosted to 22.5 PSI before hitting fuel cut. I would think that if there was a boost leak it would have cut long before that.

thanks for the help

 

[oldman]

No fuel mods or management?

 

[TurboTJ]

Nothing. Fuel system is bone stock.

 

[oldman]

Then it's normal, stock 2G are suppose to run 9.5:1.

 

[TurboTJ]

really? It used to run at 12:1. Is that timing normal? 8-12 degrees at WOT and 9PSI?

thanks for the help!

 

[oldman]

1. What is your intake temperature?

2. What is your coolant temperature?

3. List a chart of your timing/rpm.

 

[TurboTJ]

Coolant temp is around 190 with the AC off (when I'm logging).

I dont think that I have an Intake air temp sensor. I looked around and couldn't find one in the shop manual or on the car.

I am not sure if my logger can post anything on the computer. I just bought it used with no paperwork. It is palm'n'stein. Timing will go as low as 6 degrees with boost.

I think it has to be a bad sensor somewhere but I dont know which one. I thought it had to be intake air temp but since I do think I have one, Im lost.

Do you know what other sensors the ECU looks at to control timing?

 

[bling5tatus]

The coolant temp sensor assists in controlling timing... also, your air intake temp sensor is built into the maf, and there should be an option to log the air temp on your logger.

 

[TurboTJ]

So could that sensor be bad? should I clean out my MAF?

thanks for the help!

 

[TurboTJ]

Ok, I just went out and drove it and watched my intake temp. It stayed between 115 and 120. Is this in degrees F or C. Either way, it sounds like that is probably the problem because the outside temp is about 75F.

thanks for the help!

 

[oldman]

The computer takes away 1 degree of timing for intake temps greater than 84*F and less than 34*F. On a stock timing map, Your timing from 4k to 6.5k rpm should be a steady climb between 7 to 16 degrees.

As for your high intake temp, do you still have both of your heatshields?

 

[TurboTJ]

The car came with pretty much nothing there. Just a K&N rigged onto the MAF. I also opened the hood and revved up the engine and the temp never went down. as I mentioned, Its in the 70's here.

I am planning on building a box around it but havent done that yet.

So the temp is in degrees F?

 

[oldman]

So the temp is in degrees F?

Yes.

If you don't have the heatshields, replace them.

 

[TurboTJ]

Alright, I just went out and did a few third gear pulls. Here is the timing.

RPM Timing
3K 6-8
4K 12
5K 14
6K 19

Is this what it should look like? I thought there would have been more timing down low?

Thanks for all the Help!

 

[oldman]

Looks about right to me.

 

[JayRolla]

Only problem with tuning just by looking at the timing curve is you cant really see the knock. I was having an issue where I would get around 15 counts of knock right when boost hits. If you look at the timing curve you can not see the knock because the knock would go away after that. Your best bet is to get a WBo2 so you know your at a good AFR. Tuning blind is a good way to burn a valve from a lean condition.

 

[TurboTJ]

Good call. I have an AEM wideband. AFR drops to 10:1 and stays there. Is it ok to run that rich? will it damage my engine?

 

[bling5tatus]

running too rich can cause high egt's and ruin other crap like exhaust valves, catalytic converters, etc.

I'm sorry, upon re-reading my response, it seems to me that running lean causes high egt's... I'm confused too, I know that running too rich can be bad, but now I cannot remember why, someone please clarify.

 

[JayRolla]

Thats not really too rich. You should be around a low 11:1 A/F. Running too rich can cause detonation. If I remember right our cars come stock at an A/F around 10 but I'm guessing oldman would have said your ok.

Ohh and I'm an idiot thinking you didnt have a WBo2.

 

[oldman]

Stock 2G out of the box, 9.5 : 1. Nothing you can do about it until you have fuel management anyway.

 

[JayRolla]

Stock 2G out of the box, 9.5 : 1. Nothing you can do about it until you have fuel management anyway.

Thats what I thought. I was thinking it was 9.8:1 so I just said 10. So you should be fine, get some Fuel Management and tune to a low 11:1 A/F.

I give you props on getting a WBo2 as one of your first upgrades. Everyone says a logger should be the first upgrade but I think a WBo2 should be. I burned a valve tuning off of a logger.