status of pina motorsports......

[phunny]

Phunny, did you happen to buy Jeff's silver 2g? They (the other members) may not know the background behind that car and the tune, but I do, and to me, you sound like a moron for having that attitude.

Here is your car, when Jeff owned it, tuned on ECMLink. It seemed to have drove down to the track perfectly fine with great street manners and actually had a decent run on street tires, despite your claims that English couldn't tune ECMLink back in those days.
Jeff's Eclipse goes 10.5 at 136 - YouTube

Anyways... sorry for the rant. It bothered me a bit to see English get thrown under the bus when they are in fact the most reputable and honest shop I have ever dealt with, I refuse to deal with any other shop in the area after going through different platforms and dealing with the other specialty shops.

Why don't you learn to read before you run your mouth. I don't care what my car ran at the track, for a DD it couldn't cut it at all. Did I or did I not specify the difference between their WOT and DD tune? Did the OP not specify he wanted a DD not a track only car? Hmmm, pretty sure I did specify a difference, matter of fact, I'm pretty sure when I first received the car a question of who had actually tuned her so poorly came up and Lucas manned up. So yeah, you actually don't "know" half of what you think you know.

Can't stand when clowns come in with 5% of the info and give some idiotic rant.

For the record yet again, they are one of the very few shops I would ever let touch my car, I would even ship it to them if needed be.

 

[gtrej01]

Well my visit today at English Racing went very well. Even though we ran into some minor hicups with my car, the issues were caught before we hit the dyno by them and fixed.

I am extremely happy with my tune and am one happy customer.

Thanks Lucas & I'll be back for a retune once I get some cams.

 

[LucasEnglish]

Is your car still on gas on 2150s with the Q45TB?

This many years later and knowing what we do why would you make the statement then? We do around 2-4 ECM link Tunes per month on daily driver cars.

What the heck are you talking about? I'm not a hater at all and I'd like to know where you get that from? I simply asked a question to ensure someone gets the best possible service. The tune which was done by your shop was not up to par, heck, I'm sure it's not even up to your own standards... I asked in a very respectful way if you were proficient in ECMlink, period, nothing more or nothing less. I've recommended you to a few different guys and still sport English Racing Decals and I hate decals.

I realized long ago who built the car and so far besides a few "new guy" mistakes that were a PIA the car runs extremely well. I know this is a Pina motorsports hate thread but they did my bottom end and she's taken everything we throw at her and I couldn't be more pleased.

 

[LucasEnglish]

I was looking at you dyno sheet today and the leanest spot was a 12.4 which equals around a 12.0. It was in the 11s out the top. I find your combo to be real knock happy past 6-6500rpm. Guess my point is we know what is safe and constant and you probably did a pretty good job of dialing the knock at 28psi so there was no need to change it at the 24psi mark ware we tune on pump gas. I find when we do a pushed tune for someone that is on the edge we get lots of calls back about knock light etc... We tune a car for set it and for get it. I would guess if I would have tuned it you could have swayed me to try harder but Aaron will be in trouble if he hurts something pushing past our normal limits.

You see, you can't say I'm running too little timing BECAUSE too much boost, I've tried messing with the tables since 15psi waste gate pressure before i added in another spring, no changes. Yes i was in 92 when i arrived at the shop, and I'm in canada now where there is 94. I said that earlier. Point is i was running 28psi with the same timing numbers right before i came in but i turned it DOWN thinking they would know where to set it at and timing accordingly. Timing was
Not changed nor boost i arrived on 22psi and it stayed at 22psi spiking to 24by 7k. I said i was unpleased with aaron. When i met lucas (once) he seemed like a very straight up guy. My shop experience was not with lucas. When i say "english tune" I'm obviously referring to the shop not lucas himself since he didn't touch my car. Anyway i guess in the end i thought I'd get more calibration than anything i wanted my shit to line up so if i needed to change anything i te future it would be easier (minor timing modifications) Cause i know i can always turn up boost an mess with afrs myself. I never said i was an expert. But i can get my car running decently.

It doesn't really matter anymore because my setup has changed since then and it's not really apples to apples anymore I'm going t3 .70AR so things will be more lenient in pump gas. Along with a 4" ETS fmic i didn't have when i was at the shop.

I also agree bc272s are shitty cams BUT decet power has been made on them more than once and more power than I'm pushing right now. I had planned for s2's

 

[xxNocturnalxx]

Anyways As for Pina and Andre, he is basically only taking previous long term clients. He took on another job that's mostly full time and generally just works at the shop by himself now for specific customers needs. Contacting him may be very difficult at this time. Just a heads up.

 

[phunny]

Is your car still on gas on 2150s with the Q45TB?

This many years later and knowing what we do why would you make the statement then? We do around 2-4 ECM link Tunes per month on daily driver cars.

Yeah, same tb and injectors. I just noticed the comment about 2150's and such not being able to be perfectly tuned on pump and in any case I've seen that is completely untrue. There were no blips or anything when she was on 35psi on pump. After that I switched to e85 and never looked back.

I was asking if your ecmlink DD tunes had gotten better. When my car was tuned the settings and tune in ecmlink were way outta wack and it was certainly no DD capable. I pull no punches and if someone asks a question they'll get a direct and true answer from me. I know I was pissed when the car arrived and had the tune that it had. It wasn't a cheap tune and yet I had to pay all over again right after Sam had payed. You wouldn't be happy either.

That being said I do believe you one of the very few trustworthy shops and I would have no issue shipping my car to you guys if something catastrophic ever happens.

 

[nitrouskris]

No hard feelings? It's funny how your tone changes once Lucas joins in.

You go from slamming his company and name to being one of the more understanding customers who post online. Let's step back for a second.









In regards to whether or not they can tune ECMLink...



BC cams are garbage, it has been proven. The BEP housings don't work that well, either. The Holset itself is generally fine.

Once Lucas chimes in, you suddenly turn into this guy.



If Aaron changed a few more values for you, would you have been happy? Even if those numbers didn't amount to anything in the grand scheme? If you claim to be some sort of expert tuner and can get away with far more boost (and power ), why did you even bring the car down to them in the first place?

The Evo maps are for a stock sized turbo. You are running a bolt on 35R equivalent turbo. It will still take some tweaking to get the timing you should be running. Off boost timing will be ok, but the Evo map will pull timing a lot earlier than you will require since you are still out of boost once the stock turbo is coming on. You will need to adjust timing in the cells that correspond with your boost curve from when positive pressure comes in until redline. The boost curve of a stock turbo is completely different than yours, so the Evo map will not work in all conditions, save for the low load cells where not much damage can occur.

Did it ever cross your mind that you can't run much timing because you are in fact running 30psi?

It is not uncommon to have have cells higher than 100 in the VE table. Would you rather have a car that drives nicely and runs smooth with values that you can use as a benchmark, or a car that doesn't idle the greatest? What I have figured out the hard way, is that just because you think your numbers make sense, you must realize that on SD, the airflow is calculated. No matter what you think your airflow numbers are, who actually knows the accuracy of those numbers? Once you ditch that air meter, those numbers are better used as a benchmark than anything. Rule of thumb is 60lb/min equates to 600whp, right? You are off that estimate. Throw those numbers out the door, because I can guarantee you did not pick up another 210whp off of Aaron's tune. If you are trusting ECMLinks estimate (which it sounds like you are are a bit skeptical, so we are good there), do not.

Have you ever spent time on the dyno and experimented with low boost/high timing and high boost/low timing? Yes, our cars like more boost and less timing generally, but there is a point of diminishing returns. Do you want to run high boost and low timing (raising EGTs), or make the same power with less boost and more timing? Stop bench racing, don't tune completely around boost and timing numbers in which you think you should be able to get away with. If you can run 30psi and are upset with the amount of timing are able to run, TURN THE BOOST DOWN. Running 30psi on pump fuel isn't much to brag about. Your timing is pulled so far back that it is not worth the extra boost. Did your car have 92 or 94oct when you arrived at Luke's shop?

For you to sit here and tell unknowing people that English will not tune a car to it's full potential if they did not build the car is simply ignorant. Did it ever occur to you that your car was not tuned to its full potential because it had issues and a combination of parts that aren't proven to work well? I know Aaron can be blunt. There is a reason why Aaron talks about which parts work and which parts do not. We all talked shit about BEP/Holsets long before English had any sort obligation towards FP. At the end of the day, the FP turbos perform and are on top of the game. You need to realize that Aaron sees hundreds of cars a year in which he gets to play with all sorts combinations, some work, some don't. There is a reason why when I asked for Luke's input on my build, I didn't argue with him. I simply asked for his reasoning and if it was convincing enough, I gave him the go ahead. These parts were never the high dollar parts or parts that I did not need (for instance, he never tried to sell me cams gears, but rather told me which cams he has had good luck with when installed straight up and made good power). I think you don't understand what a dyno tune entails exactly. A tuner is not going to push a car harder to justify the money. If the car is close when it rolls in, then great, that's less time you have to sit in the shop, waiting to go home, and at this point, you get the nod of approval from a reputable shop that the car is safe to rip on and enjoy for some time. A customer should be able to guarantee a tuner that the timing and plug gap are within spec when the car hits the rollers, you re paying for a dyno tune, not a tune up.

Phunny, did you happen to buy Jeff's silver 2g? They (the other members) may not know the background behind that car and the tune, but I do, and to me, you sound like a moron for having that attitude.

Here is your car, when Jeff owned it, tuned on ECMLink. It seemed to have drove down to the track perfectly fine with great street manners and actually had a decent run on street tires, despite your claims that English couldn't tune ECMLink back in those days.
Jeff's Eclipse goes 10.5 at 136 - YouTube

Anyways... sorry for the rant. It bothered me a bit to see English get thrown under the bus when they are in fact the most reputable and honest shop I have ever dealt with, I refuse to deal with any other shop in the area after going through different platforms and dealing with the other specialty shops.

BC CAMS TRASH ????? 9.6 here with there cams

 

[Archer Fabrications]

The 272s are shit but i run them because i got both for 100$ the 280s are supposed to be better.

 

[rvaughn]

400/400 straight from English with e85 and a evo 3 16g. I'm happy with the car and I'm even happier with English Racings service. The guys have all treated me with great respect even after having to fix months of mishaps from another "reputable" shop / parts supplier. I look forward to supporting English Racing for a long time to come. The bashing in here is crazy considering the records and services English continues to provide for our dying platform, its no wonder the contributions to our platforms growth are deminishing.... carry on....

 

[pimpin81]

Hey Lucas, glad to see you in the forums. I'm the Op of this thread and I'm gonna be bringing my car down to your shop tomorrow . I'm gonna get there as early as i can it being such a long drive an all. I've chosen to bring my car down to your shop because everyone i asked said you know the most about dsm's in the area and your shop has a good reputation for producing reliable drivers. My goal when I leave your shop is to come out of it with a good running reliable car, even tho it runs good now its not tuned for boost worth a damn. And im glad to here you promoting that when a customers car leaves your shop its going to be a safe tune here in the forums. Cant wait, its been a long time coming with this car, 4 engines later 6bolt full swap this time and first time with a dsm that has this many mods I've done all the work myself, to save money all internal work was done by Beyond Redline in Wisconsin several years back. I'm pretty much putting what money i have to get this car finished. If youd like to get to know my mods there is a good list on my profile. We'll until tomorrow

 

[4thStroke]

Can English tune using ecmlink yet?

There was no clarification in what you were talking about in regards to WOT of driveability.

That would be completely incorrect. Attempting and actually doing a decent tune are not same. So don't jump in saying "of course" when it's not the case. I would hate to see the OP drop good money and not get much in return, it's a simple are they proficient or not?

Still claiming that English cannot tune. You failed to even give them credit for WOT tuning at this point and made the blanket statement that they simply cannot tune.


Phunny, I realize what you were trying to say, but to say that English tunes just for WOT and DD qualities go out the door is not true. I'm not going to sit here and tell you what was going on with your own car, you, Lucan, and I all know and that's already been covered, but you have no clue who I am and how involved I am around here, I am far more aware of what happens around here than you would probably think, so saying I know 5% of what was going is far from accurate. This is good though, you are providing me with this evenings entertainment.

nitrouskris, I stand by my statement. Swap those out for a better cam and I bet you make more power. Whether or not you run faster, that'll be up to you.

 

[LucasEnglish]

The tune on that car was 3 years ago ECM link was not even setup to go far enough on 2150s at that time on gas and that car may have been one of the 1st ECM link cars on 2150's. As we spoke in the past it was not perfect but it was also not that bad. Also as you said you have gone E85 and no looked back because its better on E85 then gas.

To come around 3 years later and make comments like that about a shop you say you like is wrong.

 

[LucasEnglish]

Cool deal will see you tomorrow and we will get her as straight as a DSM can get in one day

QUOTE=pimpin81;153249447]Hey Lucas, glad to see you in the forums. I'm the Op of this thread and I'm gonna be bringing my car down to your shop tomorrow . I'm gonna get there as early as i can it being such a long drive an all. I've chosen to bring my car down to your shop because everyone i asked said you know the most about dsm's in the area and your shop has a good reputation for producing reliable drivers. My goal when I leave your shop is to come out of it with a good running reliable car, even tho it runs good now its not tuned for boost worth a damn. And im glad to here you promoting that when a customers car leaves your shop its going to be a safe tune here in the forums. Cant wait, its been a long time coming with this car, 4 engines later 6bolt full swap this time and first time with a dsm that has this many mods I've done all the work myself, to save money all internal work was done by Beyond Redline in Wisconsin several years back. I'm pretty much putting what money i have to get this car finished. If youd like to get to know my mods there is a good list on my profile. We'll until tomorrow [/QUOTE]

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Curious how it went.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Jezz... Glad at least some people have some sense and can see through (or have some real experience) half the BS people are spewing here ...

I could make some points as to the negative comments here. Call people out et cetera like everyone thinks their so good at...

But I don't think there is a point. I think Lucas is WAY more then fair offering any free dyno time and I think it would only prove his point as he pretty much covered it as far as Pump gas goes... .

Anyone with the slightest bit of background in these cars will see some of these comments for what there are.

Anyone that truly knows the story behind some of the missing "details" here of a couple cars in question. Is going to flat out laugh at some of these comment from you guys.

I'll stay out of this for the most part... .

But, Before people go pointing fingers and say someone can or can't do something. Might help if you take a step back and think where your cars would be had none of the people that have actually helped in getting them to the point they are or had a hand in them. Think about how thing would be had not been around...

There is a reason people take their cars to other people. Knowledge and experience and I can say a few people posting negatively in here. Would not be where they are today with their cars had it not been for a lot of other people. So show some respect and learn to take some constructive criticism and succeed that you may not know as much as you think or understand things fully. I'd like to see a lot of the people on this fourm tune a car without all the help and information of the people have provided over the years From their real world experience and not how it "should be" or what is on paper so to speak.

I may be speaking for myself here...
But,
These kinds of negative attitude and blanket statements make a lot of people not want to be bothered with giving advice (free mind you) or set some of the misinformation that gets spread around strait More so than already... .

 

[CrackedDSM]

I started in DSM's in 2000 so I know S-AFC, MAFT, MAFT PRO, hacked MAF, ETC but ECM link V3 is the only way these days.

Speaking of blanket statements.... I don't really know how you can recommend ECMLink over a product you yourself have said you have no experience with.

 

[SonySlave]

I remember many Hood River Runs driving next to Jeff when he was in his old (Phunny's) 2G. Seemed extremely happy with the way the car was driving then, back when it "wasn't tuned".

Speaking of blanket statements.... I don't really know how you can recommend ECMLink over a product you yourself have said you have no experience with.

Typical statement coming from a guy using TunerPro. Go play somewhere else troll.

 

[phunny]

I remember many Hood River Runs driving next to Jeff when he was in his old (Phunny's) 2G. Seemed extremely happy with the way the car was driving then, back when it "wasn't tuned".


Typical statement coming from a guy using TunerPro. Go play somewhere else troll.

It's amazing how some people have a problem admitting either themselves or friends of theirs don't know everything. Believe it or not, most people don't expect any shop to know everything about everything. But apparently you either believe certain shops are all-knowing, all-perfect, and can never make a mistake or get backlash. Classy.

 

[LucasEnglish]

Guess you are referring to tuner pro? I have dealt with some Tuner pro stuff but the ECM link for the end user is a pretty hard program to beat.

Speaking of blanket statements.... I don't really know how you can recommend ECMLink over a product you yourself have said you have no experience with.

 

[LucasEnglish]

Aaron and I were talking about 2gs today some.

We have noticed the ones with 1g cam sensors seem to end up with lower timing # then the true OBDII Cars. The car today at 20psi at 7k was in the 7deg range at 311hp on stock cams but the hp looked like timing would be in the 10-12deg range if it was an EVO. This car was on stock intake can cams and was fighting knock past 6.5k.

I find that most SD ECM link VE maps range from 101-110 peak down to 90 in the Wot areas. If I start getting over 110 for a set injector size I know I am dropping fuel pressure or the injectors are not the size they say the are.

Since DSM ECU were never meant to be SD in the 1st place trying to keep VE # under 100 will cause to many other changes in the map that will make the car drive and tune out worse. On all my tunes on SD my boost est in the 5.5k-6.5k at wot is with in 1psi.

Because thats not a calibrated tune. It's easy to get your afrs where you want, but doing it correctly is another thing, I'd like my airflow numbers to be accurate and ve numbers to accurately represent the engines actual VE (which is not usually over 98. And my timing to not peak at 2.2* at 7k and not reach -6.6 on spool at 4k sadly all else results in knock. Base timing verified 5* maybe I'm just picky but thats what I'd expect when you pay good money.

 

[1qkfwd]

I kept my ve tables under 100 so far by adding fuel with the global. But on q16 I need to add 5% anyways to keep things in check. My afrest doesn't line up but my wb matches my da maxoct tables. Link can be a bit tricky and a few years ago it wasn't what it is now. And it's definitely not what it was like when I delt with v2 when it came out.

 

[pimpin81]

Well she's done !! Just got home and I have to say I was verry pleased with the customer service that English had to offer i could really tell that they care about there customers cars above all else, a few things were even pointed out to me and fixed that I was unaware of . Would diffently go back and recommend English racing to anyone I know. That being said I will also be promoting there business by sporting some of the window stickers I got while I was there.

Oh yah what everyone is probably wondering Lucas was able to get 311 whp out of her on a measly 19 psi could have got alot more but when we broke 300 on 19 psi i was more then satisifyed . so extremely happy we'll wroth the drive and money I can post the dyno sheet for anyone who doubts me .see you don't need 2150cc injectors meth injection cams forged pistons amd gm maft to make good power just a strong motor with the right mods . Cheese

 

[gtrej01]

Well she's done !! Just got home and I have to say I was verry pleased with the customer service that English had to offer i could really tell that they care about there customers cars above all else, a few things were even pointed out to me and fixed that I was unaware of . Would diffently go back and recommend English racing to anyone I know. That being said I will also be promoting there business by sporting some of the window stickers I got while I was there.

Oh yah what everyone is probably wondering Lucas was able to get 311 whp out of her on a measly 19 psi could have got alot more but when we broke 300 on 19 psi i was more then satisifyed . so extremely happy we'll wroth the drive and money I can post the dyno sheet for anyone who doubts me .see you don't need 2150cc injectors meth injection cams forged pistons amd gm maft to make good power just a strong motor with the right mods . Cheese

Good to hear!, Im also another happy English Racing Customer!
We were able to get 298hp out my setup on 20psi and she runs awesome!

As soon as I get more upgrades I will be back for a retune!

 

[LucasEnglish]

Adding some data to this post.

So its been 2g mania the last few days and I just confirmed what I thought. A 1g cam sensor synced at 5deg with link is different then the stock OBDII for Final WOT timing #.

Had 2 2g's this week with 1g cam sensor and I set base at 5deg. Both of these cars did not like more then 7-9deg at 7k. Today I did a 16g pump gas auto 2g and its timing # in the map were close to 18deg at 7k just starting to touch the knock sensor at 20psi.

Just dawned on me that maybe I should check base with the stock OBDII. I know on 1g with AEM I can get over 5deg of drift if I dont set stuff up right. I feel like the 1g sensor must be drifting adv by 5deg or more past 6k cause the map ## to seem low.

 

[white92talontsi]

Adding some data to this post.

So its been 2g mania the last few days and I just confirmed what I thought. A 1g cam sensor synced at 5deg with link is different then the stock OBDII for Final WOT timing #.

Had 2 2g's this week with 1g cam sensor and I set base at 5deg. Both of these cars did not like more then 7-9deg at 7k. Today I did a 16g pump gas auto 2g and its timing # in the map were close to 18deg at 7k just starting to touch the knock sensor at 20psi.

Just dawned on me that maybe I should check base with the stock OBDII. I know on 1g with AEM I can get over 5deg of drift if I dont set stuff up right. I feel like the 1g sensor must be drifting adv by 5deg or more past 6k cause the map ## to seem low.

Belt deflection at high RPM?