Starter keeps disengaging, new starter does same thing! (video)

[Fayt]

FIXED! Read the thread for GREAT help with starters! It ended up being a few washers stuck between the flywheel and the transfer case WTF So, it starts fine now, time to fix the small stuff

Ok, I just got my Talon back (its been a few months, long story) and the only problem with it mechanically is the starter. Once this is fixed I will be driving it again... only took 2 years!

It will start 5-6 times really rough, then disengage completely. I can take the starter out, and put it right back in (take out bolts and put them in basically) and it'll do the same thing; 5-6 times start rough and then disengage.

It does this with 2 starters, both were tested and worked fine. Both starters have perfect teeth on them, no gouges, broken teeth, etc.
Flywheel is a slightly used Fidanza with less than 1000 miles on it. All the teeth are fine on the flywheel, no notches, bent teeth, or broken ones.
Tranny is fairly new, 11000 miles on it.
Clutch is a slightly used ACT 2600 with less than 1000 miles on it.
There was a plate between the tranny and the engine, but that was cut off so the starter sits completely flush.

Here's a video of how it sounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J-T8kyF4Pw

When it is being started, I laid underneath and noticed that the flywheel doesn't spin consistently. It will spin a lil, slow down, spin more, slow down, spin more, etc. until it starts. Is that normal?

Could it be a bad ground to the starter? My car was having issues with voltage while lights were on. It would dim whenever a turn signal was on, or my headlights were on. Replaced the ground and that was fixed. Should I do the same with the starter and engine ground?

 

[Auto RS T]

I had a similar problem on a 92 with multiple starters. Spaced the starter out from the transmission with washers and engagement was fine. I also noticed that this car was missing that engine to tranny plate.

I would re-install the plate between the engine and trans, and engagement should be fine.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to clean up the ground cable ends at this time either.

 

[Fayt]

Well, the plate can't be reinstalled... it was kind of cut off.

I'll get some washers and try shimming it out a little bit, and replacing the cable/cleaning it. Thanks Auto RS T.

 

[96 eagle talon]

What size washers did you use to shim the starter so it wouldn't grind anymore? Cause I have my shim plate on my starter and it still grinds, so please get back with me as soon as possible thanks.

 

[Auto RS T]

First you will want to check the condition of the flywheel and starter teeth. Obviously the new starter's teeth should be in good condition, but does the flywheel or old starter show wear?

Then you may want to move on to shimming the starter out. You can use washers that are slightly larger than the diameter of the starter bolts All you are doing here is putting distance between the starter and the tranny.

 

[96 eagle talon]

I have shim it all the way out. so far as of 1/2 inch and it still isnt right.

 

[Fayt]

So, before when it was flush it would grind but at least spin the flywheel and start. Not good. I started shimming it out and with 1, 2, 3, or 4 washers it just grinded, no starting at all. I checked the flywheel and there is a very very minimal amount ground off the teeth (like, 1/100 of a millimeter). I tried the starter out of the tranny and it works like it should.

So since that works, that means it rules out the starter, solenoid, wiring, battery.

Could it be in the mounting? I just noticed that part of one of the starters holes is stripped at the end, so it wont tighten down all the way. Should I consider a replacement? Or what about the shim that goes behind the flywheel? I think the shop that installed it said something about taking that shim out for whatever reason. Any way I can order it and have somebody like Bushur install it?

 

[Spoolin4Ever]

So are you sure the battery has plenty of juice? We kinda think it's not the starter, since it's happened on 2 starters, and shimming didn't help..

Overall it sounds like an electrical system or battery problem. I think probably the electrical wiring or something.

Just to get you by for now, you can get a push button starter with wires at the auto store for about $15.00...it basically bypasses the electrical system, you hook it up direct to the starter. You'd need some extra wire it into the cabin. It's kinda ghetto but at least you could drive it whil you work on more permanent solution.

It's also a good way to test the starter and solenoid, since it hooks up direct to it.

We used this on a 90 NA Auto that had some electrical bugs, it was broken down at the mall, and I tried replacing everything; starter, wiring, battery, but it was just a wiring gremlin, and I didn't want to try and track it down so I just bypassed it. (You still have to have that wire hooked up that goes from the firewall to the engine compartment though)/

 

[Fayt]

Alright, I was searching and noticed one thread that mentioned a shim that goes behind the flywheel. If the shim wasn't there, then the flywheel wouldn't line up right. I asked my dad (his shop installed it) and he said there wasn't a shim that came with the flywheel, so there isn't one installed at all.

Could that be it? What if a FWD flywheel was put in? I'd assume the car wouldn't move then, right?

 

[Fayt]

I dropped my oil pan to try and fix an oil leak, and I think the starter problem is now fixed. Right next to the flywheel, where the tranny mates with the transfer case there were 3-5 washers just chilling at the bottom and in between. I wonder if that was the problem? Battery's charging now, we'll find out! I have a new starter on there, and it is sitting completely flush where it *should* sit with the plate.

 

[96 eagle talon]

I have put 7 starters on and it still grinds, so i tried to shim it out and nothing works. Every time i put a new starter on it works fine for about 3-7 starts and then grinds, so i dont known what to do.