SPAL1650 pwns my Optima yellow top...what can I upgrade for more power? paris hilton

[DROOPY209]

Exactly! Amplifier efficiency is the process of pumping more power under the same load using lower power supply voltages.

Sound quality of a Class D amp?...[/B].

Dgajre, you can pull these facts that you're posting up all day long, but Class D amps WILL NOT give the clean raw power that I need. I question the realiability of the sources you posted up. Class D just wont cut it. I have a lot of Class D amps in my other cars and in my other 1gb AWD which is my sisters DD.
I won't run them....they don't meet my requirements. I don't want dirty power. My sister, mom and dad could care less, as long as it bumps they don't care.

I'm speaking from many years of experience in the field and right from the horse's mouth....High-end car audio manufacturing companies.

Just to give you an example, my Zapco 750 Class A/B amp is louder, hits harder, produces more decibels, runs warmer, and pulls less amps from my charging system then my Rockford Fosgate bD1000.1 Class D 1000 watt RMS amplifier. The Zapco pulls 75A to make the clean power, the Rockford pulls 100A to make the rated dirty power.

Thats where efficiency comes into play.....in what you hear, see, and can measure and back up. Not in what somebody posted online.

 

[DGajre777]

Droopy - I guess its a matter of opinion at this point... Thanks for your input!

 

[DROOPY209]

Droopy - I guess its a matter of opinion at this point... Thanks for your input!

I agree with you 100%. Everybody has different tastes, listen to different types of music at different levels of volume.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

In this thread I showed a video and pics of my fan/radiator setup. My fans are powerful enough to suck a sheet of folded paper and road debris to my fmic.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258913

Well, since he already has the grey forest mod...

Kevin- have you thought of putting some kind of plastic or sheet metal ducting so air in front of your FMIC gets forced through it and not over it?

As for fans - do you have pusher or pullers? Maybe try using a 1.3 bar radiator cap?

I plan on doing ducting, however while it should help some more, I already have great airflow. The problem of hot temps occured after I changed over to a 50 trim/o2 wg setup from my previous T28 setup. With the T28 I used to run 20 deg cooler.

What would a 1.3 bar radiator cap do?

I agree with you, there is a problem somewhere else. I don't think it's justifiable to "need" those big, hungry fans to cool down his engine coolant. Once he's on the highway, those fans don't help.....the air hitting the front of the car on the highway is what keeps his coolant system cool.

I disagree. This is very easily proven by using dsmlink to keep the fans off until you reach operating temp while cruising at highway speeds. Then turn on the fans. Temps drop 15-20 degrees on my car. Very simple cause and effect. Fans definately help and the situation was worse with my stock fans.

The alternator/current issue and my hot temps are two different issues. They are only related in the sense that the large main fan put me over what my stock alt can handle, giving me starting problems. The fans have enough current to run full speed.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

I don't believe it matters how big of a turbo you have, how you gate or where you dump. I'll agree your setup takes up some valuable space in the engine compartment, but as long as you have some fan room left you should be fine.

...

Most likely your air intake is behind the cooling fan, pulling hot rad fan air into the turbo, then the FMIC transfers this heat into the air, which is then already 120 degrees when it gets to your tranny cooler and then your radiator. The solution to your problem lies in why the air entering the rad is hotter than it was from the factory. Someplace you made a mistake, the car makes the same amount of waste heat at idle as it did stock. So what changed.... the big front mount? Shouldn't be an issue off boost, the air temp change from just passing through a turbo at idle is 10 degrees or less. Your highway issues should be even better, having fresh air pushed ito the front of the car at 100 ft/sec. I go through this with almost every prepped rally car I get. The difference for me is the driver is asking for sustained max output at 30-70 mph, not 15 sec at a time for a highway entrance ramp.

My suggestions: in this order... Air filter location this can make or break a cooling situation... Ducting/splitter ... insulate/wrap tubing... look for possible head gasket leak ... try the stock rad, I've seen situations where a huge rad actually cooled worse because there was so little airflow through it... Post some pics of your setup, I might be able to see something that I can't think of.

Well the thing is, the cooling issues occured directly after switching from a internally gated T28 setup to a 50 trim externally gated off a recirculated O2. The only difference I can fathom is the proximity of the tial 38 from my radiator (1 cm) -- removal of the stock radiator revealed half of it was blackened from the heat. So I replaced the radiator with a koyo and replaced the fans with more powerful SPALs. When I had the T28 setup, stock rad, stock fans, I had no cooling issues whatsoever.

The steps I'm taking now are adding a 170* thermostat, ducting, 70/30 water to coolant ratio, water wetter, and digital fan controller. I'm also going to heat wrap the dp which is very close to my licp. I may try to wrap the O2 housing if I can.

As for the intake pipe, I don't know how anyone avoids blowing hot air onto it from the main fan. The only thing I can think of there is to cover it wish a reflective heatshield sleeve. But again, none of these were issues before I had the 50 trim setup.

 

[DGajre777]

A 1.3 bar cap raises the pressure in the cooling system, raises the boiling point of the water and keeps the coolant from becoming vapor - which is what causes the overheating and boiling over.

You might also want to try 80/20 and 2 bottles of water wetter.

If you have the funds - jet hot coat the o2 housing and the dump tube.

Powerful fans btw!

 

[RayPeters]

Well the thing is, the cooling issues occured directly after switching from a internally gated T28 setup to a 50 trim externally gated off a recirculated O2. The only difference I can fathom is the proximity of the tial 38 from my radiator (1 cm) -- removal of the stock radiator revealed half of it was blackened from the heat. So I replaced the radiator with a koyo and replaced the fans with more powerful SPALs. When I had the T28 setup, stock rad, stock fans, I had no cooling issues whatsoever.

The steps I'm taking now are adding a 170* thermostat, ducting, 70/30 water to coolant ratio, water wetter, and digital fan controller. I'm also going to heat wrap the dp which is very close to my licp. I may try to wrap the O2 housing if I can.

As for the intake pipe, I don't know how anyone avoids blowing hot air onto it from the main fan. The only thing I can think of there is to cover it wish a reflective heatshield sleeve. But again, none of these were issues before I had the 50 trim setup.

Wrapping those pipes will help a bunch, the coolant and wetting agent is a minor blip by comparison in my experience, if you can wrap the O2 go for it, all that exhaust stuff is at least 800* at idle. Doesn't take a bunch of heat transfer when the temps are that high to cause problems.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

I was taking another look at my engine bay when I got home after commuting on the highway. I'm pretty convinced the fact that I am using the JM polished heat shield (doesn't have lower section like stock heat shield) and how close the tial/o2 is to the radiator is causing my radiator to lose a ton of efficiency through heat soak.

If I try to put my hand between the a/c slimline fan and my manifold it is too hot to do so for longer than a couple seconds. I am actually shocked my fan hasn't melted considering where it sits (good thing I have a spare). That radiant heat from the manifold/o2/tial must be superheating half my radiator.

The only thing I can do about that at this time is heat wrap everything from the manifold to dp. It won't be pretty but I don't really care at this point. Putting a stock heat shield back on isn't an option as I don't think it will fit anymore because of the lower shield. I need to block the heat from affecting my radiator.

Thanks for all the helpful advice everyone, I'll let you know how this works out.

 

[RipperXX]

This thread has grown pretty quickly so perhaps I missed someone asking this already. But do you think relocating the altinator to where the A/C compressor is would help keep it cooler? I'm not sure if the poster still has A/C and im not trying to hijack the thread but for instance I dont, and it is an option for some. So im curious if anyone thinks it would seriously help keep the altinator cooler?

Also yea you have an issue somewhere in your cooling system cause I run 180*F crusing with just one fan which is normally off.

 

[DGajre777]

Kevin - You could get a heat shield from JMFab that covers the entire exhaust manifold.
http://www.jmfabrications.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=31

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Yeah I thought about that, however I'm not convinced the 2 inch cutout on my current JM heat shield could possibly cause all these problems alone. I will change it out eventually though with a proper one.

I'm weighing this manifold heat shield blanket from summitracing -- it covers the whole manifold like a sock: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=the-14003

RipperXX going through the trouble of relocating my alternator is something I really don't want to go through the trouble of doing. I think I may wrap it instead with heat wrap like they use for starters.

Here's a few more pics of my problem area:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

The topic of this thread has been resolved.

Just put in the new AlterStart Power Boss 165A high performance alternator...13.8v constant baby!! Now I've got enough amps to power all the accessories I can throw at the car. Definately worth the money.

Wow, that big SPAL really pulls some juice from the battery!

 

[romeen]

That's 13.8 with the fans operating? Does it drop much after it gets hot? Just curious how many volts at the battery with the fans off? I ask because I am borderline with outrunning my alternator mainly because of dual FAL's and a fairly powerful audio system.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

My apexi tt was showing 13.8v, but a digital volt meter on the battery showed 14.4v with fans running on high. I have to drive around for a bit before I can make a solid review on some of those questions as my battery still needs to be fully charged back up. All I know is before I swapped alts my volts were in the 10s and I couldn't jump my car without the fans turned off. So far looks good.

Btw, the new alt comes with a 3 page document showing all the testing and benchmarks it went through when manufactured. That's nice assurance that it indeed pushes 165A. Did I mention it comes with a lifetime warranty?

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Wrapping those pipes will help a bunch, the coolant and wetting agent is a minor blip by comparison in my experience, if you can wrap the O2 go for it, all that exhaust stuff is at least 800* at idle. Doesn't take a bunch of heat transfer when the temps are that high to cause problems.

Today I wrapped my O2 housing, dp, and 2G manifold with DEI exhaust wrap and silicone coating. I drove around today at 169 - 174* on average, fans on, when I should have been about 196* without the wrap and fans on! THAT STUFF IS AWESOME. I can even touch the manifold with my bare skin and not burn myself. Reduced my temps by 20 degrees.

And I also found another culprit for my cooling problems. I noticed hot air blowing at my radiator with my fans off. I have an exhaust leak and it seems to be coming from my O2 housings to turbine housing seal...it's a new gasket so I think I need to tighten the bolts down. The setup was newly installed only 5 weeks ago or so. No wonder my radiator was getting heatsoaked and my wideband reads a bit leaner than it should.

I'm sticking with a 180* thermostat and 1.1 bar radiator cap since my cooling issues appear to be relatively easy fixes and I want to run in the 180s. I'm a big believer in the DEI products now. Next I will be heat shielding the intake pipe, turbine housing, and tossing a heat blanket over the manifold.