Sleeper Turbos

[Warharan]

I have searched. I just spent 2 hours searching. I sort of got my question answered, or better yet narrowed down.

I am looking for a sleeper turbo. Lag isn't a terrible issue for me. I like freeway power. So far, it looks as if the SBR Bastard 20G is a good candidate. I saw the thread where SBR tested several different turbos.

I'm working in 2 stages.

For my stage 1 of mods I hope to get at least 350-370 whp on pump gas.

For my stage 2, I am hoping to get about 425-450 WHP (maybe a bit more if possible) on pump gas.


My Stage 1:

SBR exhaust manifold
Evo 3 O2 housing
Apex-i N1 DP
Apex-i N1 Exhaust
PWR 6x8 Liquid to Air Barrel Intercooler kit with custom 3 in piping
650 cc injectors (would Evo 9 560 cc work too???)
Larger fuel pump
Aeromotive FPR and gauge
Aeromotive fuel rail (maybe?)
AFC Neo
AVC-R Boost controller



My Stage 2:

Cams
Head studs
Valve springs & retainers
SBR intake manifold
Maybe slightly larger injectors?
DSM link


My actual question is: I want to have the same turbo for both stages. So will the SBR Bastard 20G deliver the power I want for both my stages I am planning? Or will I have to upgrade to a bigger turbo for my Stage 2 plans? That is something I don't want to do. I pretty much want to go to my stage 2 and get re-tunned without changing my turbo. Also, anyone who runs it, how do you like it?

If the SBR Bastard 20g won't cut it, what other types of sleeper turbos are there that will? Money is a bit limited so I'm looking for something priced around the Bastard 20g which is about $900 max.

Thanks!

 

[DiamondStarAwd]

You will need bigger injectors for 450 whp. 650cc won't be enough.

 

[talontuner1997]

the 20g is rated at 44lb/min, so around 440 horse. Now as far as i know the 20g isnt ball bearing. I personally think you should go with a ball bearing turbo their less lagy and flow more. If your going with dsm link i would go with 750/ 850cc injectors since you can tune them down. For turbo i would go with the FP3052, its full ball bearing and spools petty decent for the size and its rated at 52lb/min so you have lots of room to grow. And no the 560cc wont work youll overun them way before 450 horse.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

But keep in mind with these "go huge injectors" suggestions, you can't control anything bigger than 650's with an SAFC.
As for a turbo, I would love to have a 20g but also keep in mind the BB 50 trims.

 

[cmjdskates]

Maybe wait on the Exhaust manifold, O2 housing, and fuel rail. That way you can justify getting dsmlink in your stage 1 mods. Might be easier to tune in more hp then it would be to get it through better flow, especially since you're not to worried about lag. This way you can skip the afc and save a little cash.

 

[Warharan]

Thanks for the replies. I expected I would have to get larger injectors with my Stage 2 plans.

For clarification:

Would the 560 cc be efficient for my stage 1 plan of 350-370 whp? Which then later I would upgrade to bigger injectors (750/850 cc) and DSMlink for my stage 2 plan in the future.

I'd love to get a BB turbo but usually they are quite pricey. Also these turbos mentioned, do they have a "sleeper" look to them? That's my main objective. That's what drew me to the SBR bastard 20g.

 

[Warharan]

Maybe wait on the Exhaust manifold, O2 housing, and fuel rail. That way you can justify getting dsmlink in your stage 1 mods. Might be easier to tune in more hp then it would be to get it through better flow, especially since you're not to worried about lag. This way you can skip the afc and save a little cash.

I already pretty much have everything already. I'm at the stage of choosing the turbo now and having it all installed at the same time.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Your not going to make 450whp on pump gas on any turbo that "looks" stock...

 

[Warharan]

Your not going to make 450whp on pump gas on any turbo that "looks" stock...

Haha ok. I guess that answers my question. I guess I'll go for a 50 trim or bigger.

 

[scottsee]

Dsmlink should be your first aftermarket mod..

 

[Warharan]

I'll probably go with a PTE SCM-5031E (50 trim) or SCM-3231E (54 trim). I'll use 560 cc injectors and the AFC neo for the mean time at lower boost for around 350 whp tunning for some time. Then in the future get larger injectors, DSM link and build up the engine a bit more (hence my stage 2).

Does that sound possible and safe?

 

[BoostFrenzy]

Dsmlink should be your first aftermarket mod..

I agree. DSMLink works wonders.

But for your stage 2, i would also recommend getting your head ported or get a race head. Doing so with the cams will get much higher hp numbers easier.

I would also recommend doing a Meth Injection setup for those numbers you are looking for. Trying to get 425-450 with pump gas will take some big octane numbers. So i'd go with upping the octane with some meth.

Other than that, looks solid.

*As a side note, what do you plan on doing with this setup you have planned? Drag, Grip, etc? Inquiring minds would like to know.

 

[Warharan]

I agree. DSMLink works wonders.

But for your stage 2, i would also recommend getting your head ported or get a race head. Doing so with the cams will get much higher hp numbers easier.

I would also recommend doing a Meth Injection setup for those numbers you are looking for. Trying to get 425-450 with pump gas will take some big octane numbers. So i'd go with upping the octane with some meth.

Other than that, looks solid.

*As a side note, what do you plan on doing with this setup you have planned? Drag, Grip, etc? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Thanks! After speaking to several friends and from recommendations here I'll get the FP3052 BB turbo. I say if you're going to do it, spend a couple hundred more and get a good quality turbo. So thank you talontuner1997 for the recommendation.

At first I'll have a very mild tune with the FP3052. I'll drive like that for a while getting used to the increased power (over stock). Then move on to my Stage 2 setup with DSM link at the controls and do the engine work, as you said a ported head and upgraded valve train, etc...

As for my plans... hmmmm.. not drag (however, it's nice to have a freeway monster when you need it ). I already did the suspension work first (coil overs, strut bars, slotted rotors, steal braided brake lines, race pads, wider wheels, better tires, sway bars and tie bar soon). I may be a newb to DSMs but not to modding (I've had a Mustang GT, Camaro SS, STi, and an Evo 9). I came from the school of build your suspension first then add power. I want a good street car but something I can take to the track and have fun with on occasion.

I know with larger turbos you get lag and that isn't so great for auto X, however, I think with the custom liquid to air IC which has MUCH shorter piping than a huge front mount, that will help reduce the lag. Not to mention the FP3052 being a ball bearing turbo will also help reduce lag as well.

 

[eldiabloz13]

I'll probably go with a PTE SCM-5031E (50 trim) or SCM-3231E (54 trim). I'll use 560 cc injectors and the AFC neo for the mean time at lower boost for around 350 whp tunning for some time. Then in the future get larger injectors, DSM link and build up the engine a bit more (hence my stage 2).

Does that sound possible and safe?

I think those injectors are a little small for 350. On another thread everyone said 650's would be hard for 425hp. So with 560 i would assume it would be straining on them to get 350.

 

[Warharan]

I think those injectors are a little small for 350. On another thread everyone said 650's would be hard for 425hp. So with 560 i would assume it would be straining on them to get 350.

I'll probably get 650s then. I think that's sufficient for 350 whp.

 

[talontuner1997]

np man thats the turbo i will be upgrading to if i decide a upgraded is needed. I am currently running the evo 3. I found a site where you can determine the injector size you need, check it out. http://www.injector.com/injectorselection.php

If its possible for you to get dsm link earlie i would grab that, this way you only have to upgrade once and go big, im going with 850cc injectors.

 

[JayRolla]

Thanks! After speaking to several friends and from recommendations here I'll get the FP3052 BB turbo. I say if you're going to do it, spend a couple hundred more and get a good quality turbo. So thank you talontuner1997 for the recommendation.

At first I'll have a very mild tune with the FP3052. I'll drive like that for a while getting used to the increased power (over stock). Then move on to my Stage 2 setup with DSM link at the controls and do the engine work, as you said a ported head and upgraded valve train, etc...

As for my plans... hmmmm.. not drag (however, it's nice to have a freeway monster when you need it ). I already did the suspension work first (coil overs, strut bars, slotted rotors, steal braided brake lines, race pads, wider wheels, better tires, sway bars and tie bar soon). I may be a newb to DSMs but not to modding (I've had a Mustang GT, Camaro SS, STi, and an Evo 9). I came from the school of build your suspension first then add power. I want a good street car but something I can take to the track and have fun with on occasion.

I know with larger turbos you get lag and that isn't so great for auto X, however, I think with the custom liquid to air IC which has MUCH shorter piping than a huge front mount, that will help reduce the lag. Not to mention the FP3052 being a ball bearing turbo will also help reduce lag as well.

The liquid intercooler wont help out lag. When I went from a SMIC to a long route FMIC it didnt make lag worse at all. Building a stroker will though

 

[Warharan]

The liquid intercooler wont help out lag. When I went from a SMIC to a long route FMIC it didnt make lag worse at all. Building a stroker will though

Oh well. Anyhow, lag isn't much of an issue. In some ways it's good for city driving. You get better gas economy, hahaha.

 

[unlmtdndeavor]

from someone that has gone from a safc to dsmlink. and who now has the 3052. get the dsmlink first. don't waste your time with the safc. just save and buy the dsmlink. that way..you save from buying injectors twice as well. and dont get the electronic boost controller, keep it simple, just pick up a manual.

 

[Warharan]

from someone that has gone from a safc to dsmlink. and who now has the 3052. get the dsmlink first. don't waste your time with the safc. just save and buy the dsmlink. that way..you save from buying injectors twice as well. and dont get the electronic boost controller, keep it simple, just pick up a manual.

I already have the AVC-R. It's sitting in my closet, haha.

I don't have an EPROM ECU (From what I understand 96s don't), and it seems like they're about $200. DSM link is about $700. For that money, maybe I should just get an AEM?

 

[burnnxs]

if your doing 650's on your first stage i would much rather get a "dsmchip" to compensate than a SAFC talk to jeff .o he ll get you really close to where you need to be with enough info. just my 02 cents

 

[Warharan]

if your doing 650's on your first stage i would much rather get a "dsmchip" to compensate than a SAFC talk to jeff .o he ll get you really close to where you need to be with enough info. just my 02 cents

Thanks! I'll look into that. I see who Jeff is and I found his site. Looks like the route I might go.


Forget what I said about the AEM. I didn't think they were close to $1700, hahaha.