shutting engine off at gas pump

[boredguy128]

When I get gas i don't shut my engine off (because I care about my turbo). Now i am wondering why there is signs that say shut the engine off when fueling.

And if you are going to post a response be sure to be precise. I don't need things like ignition, if so state where from.

I have been putting serious thought into this and have even asked cops if it is a law and they don't know.

 

[boredguy128]

basically i am looking for the hazard that it is protecting you from,

Pretty much we I am doing some myth busting

Almost everyone does it, but why, is there a viable reason that involves the car being on or off as a factor.

 

[gsnoturbo90]

Good Question, all it really is is a safety precausion, even though nothing can happen, illutions of safety i guess. Also it wont shoot fumes in your face if your car is off, but a little gas never hurt nobody! Basically its nice for someone who is pumping your gas but yeah there is no real reason why you should, alot of people dont.

 

[Lordpaxin]

Most hype is about static electricity, but doesnt matter if the car is running or not for that right?

I always heard its because of the offchance gas fumes can accumulate around a souce of spark, coil packs, wires, plugs, or a short circuit of some kind on an expost wire or someting.

i personally shutoff the car in the summer, but when its cold, she stays running.
and i wont leave my girl sitting in the car in the dead of summer without the air on.

 

[91boost]

When I get gas i don't shut my engine off (because I care about my turbo).

Ummm....caring about your turbo has nothing to do with it. You are actually just trying to save time by not waiting for the turbo to wind down. If your pressed for time, I understand. If not- get a turbo timer!

Some newer cars you can't even leave running anyways, because of the engine pulling a vacuum on the tank while the engine is running. It will throw a code if you remove the cap.

I know there is always the static electricity risk, but other than that- I dunno. I always just shut mine off out of habit I guess.

 

[JPGRL]

"The Petroleum Equipment Institute did study the issue and released a report that noted: "Americans pump gasoline into their cars between 16 and 18 billion times a year generally without incident," but fires related to refueling at gas stations seem to be on the rise, and many of these fires are apparently not the result of the usual causes: open flames (mostly from cigarette smokers), sparks from the engine compartments of automobiles (primarily from drivers refueling cars with their motors running), or a lack of electrical continuity between nozzles and grounded dispensers.""

From several sources including www.snopes.com

 

[boredguy128]

the only problem that i see with sparks from the engine compartment is that you have people who's motors are much closer to your gas tank when fueling, than your motor is. These people are starting their cars or are just stopping to run in for something while leaving the car running also the person behind you is much closer to your tank than your motor is usually

Also if your driving around boosting and then stop for gas the turbo blades can slightly deform, and coking of oil can occur with improper cooling if your looking to get 150k miles on your turbo, you take care of it, and a turbo timer would mean the car would be running when you fill it.

And yes electrostatics don't care if the car is running.

I have talked to so many people with phd's in engineering and none of them can come up with an answer. Some just think about it and then say straight up no idea, especially if the car is in perfectly fine mechanical order with a car running being a factor.

 

[boredguy128]

The sparks from your starter which are inside it are more likely to start a fire. So starting your car would also be dangerous if sparks from the engine compartment are a reason

this is really a harder quetion than it looks, probably because the person who came up with it had no factual information so it is a myth

I have also heard claims its the law to, I asked a cop and she said for the 17years that I have been in law i have no idea. she also stated leave the squad running when I fill up

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I saw a guy at the pump gassing up his Lamborghini Diablo SV with the engine running, does that mean I would do it, no. It's the same thing with using your cell phone.

It's all about static electricity, check the mythbusters episode on it.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Turbo timing your car for anything longer than 30 secs is retarded.


It's not like your doing a full 3rd gear pull and then Immediatly pulling into a gas station.

When I get gas I drop my TT to 10 secs just as I get out so the car shuts off just as I am about to pump.

 

[boredguy128]

this thread is not about how long to turbo time your car its about leaving your car running when fueling.

Could people please address what factor a running car has to this when fueling.


I have seen the mythbusters episode they did not address this topic of leaving the car running.

Every gas station has these signs in some form please shut off engine when fueling, i am trying to find out why. I am basically trying to figure out if this is a made up fear like the boogy man. What started it was someone gave me crap about my car running when fueling.

 

[Blk95gs]

Now I'm not saying it won't happen, but...

With my 97 TSi AWD I had a fuel/ignition problem, and the car would dump way too much fuel upon startup when it was warm, and it would just crank, and crank, and not start. So whenever I went to the gas station, I had to leave it running. Never had a problem. I would just put in the pump, and do my thing.

I have a few friends that have never turned their cars off while fueling.

In New Jersey, they only have full service gas stations, and they usually pump your gas while your car is still running.

L2R is right...it is all about static electricity. Don't get back in your car if you do fuel it while it is running without grounding yourself on the metal of the car. Just a precaution. But most of all, just don't do it, unless you absolutely have to. Save yourself the chance of ending up as 'that guy' and blowing up/catching on fire, and probably owing the gas station/other people a lot of money. !

I can't do much more help than this...
http://www.abcnewspapers.com/2003/blaine/march/13safety.html

 

[boredguy128]

i still don't see anything there that proves a running engine when fueling is dangerous, since so many more cars that are running while you are fueling are so close to yours. on a car with out problems you are much safer to leave it running. Where as with a brushed dc motor no matter how new or good it produces sparks inside the motor casing which are exposed to the surrounding air. Ignition system sparks are contained when it is all working well. Also relays produce sparks when you start your car or switch things on and off, this also proves it is much safer to leave it running. anyone no is a radiator fan is an induction motor or a dc brushed motor, or could it possibly vary from brand to brand. the more i look into this the more it makes sense to leave the car running from a safety aspect of fire or explosion.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Still whats the point?? your just wasting gas and polluting...

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I say turn off your car, you lazy asses. Why? Because they ask you to. Why? Because is gas station policy. Why? Because of the same reason you don't talk on your cell and smoke a cig at the pump. Regardless of actual risk.

Fight authority when the man is having military personnel on every street corner. Not when it is literally zero inconvenience to whatever very important life you must lead to think you don't need to abide by the rules.

 

[JPGRL]

The deal is this: It's extremely unlikely that your car will blow up if you leave it running while you refuel, however, due to the fact that multiple cases a year occur where concentrated gas vapors explode because of sources of ignition in the engine bay when your engine is running, it's highly recommended (and the LAW) that you turn off your engine while pumping gas.

Good enough?

 

[91boost]

I say turn off your car, you lazy asses. Why? Because they ask you to. Why? Because is gas station policy. Why? Because of the same reason you don't talk on your cell and smoke a cig at the pump. Regardless of actual risk.

Fight authority when the man is having military personnel on every street corner. Not when it is literally zero inconvenience to whatever very important life you must lead to think you don't need to abide by the rules.

Props for the best post in thread, and also the nicest color 2g.

 

[RamenPride]

Still whats the point?? your just wasting gas and polluting...

I concur.

Besides, if you leave the car running while filling it up they may think you're just gonna take off without paying

 

[boredguy128]

Props for the best post in thread, and also the nicest color 2g.

this is not the best. because they told you so thats ridiculous i hope you listen to every that tells you to jump of bridges to. If someone tells me to do something they better have good reasoning if i challenge it. Just because everyone is doing it doesn't mean it is right.

As I have pointed out you car shutter offers could be the ones putting me in danger. when fuel gets on the ground (from another vehicle i pull up and since my car is smaller the engine is over the fuel and most cars the starter is the lowest thing that will spark, and it will when you use it, because you shut your car off) the closest thing to sparking to the fuel on the ground is your starter.

another theory someone has to told me is that the fuel being pumped around in the tank could cause the automatic shut off to not work, so far that has only happened to me with cars that were off. I have not looked into how the automatic shut off devices work so i cannot rule this. When comparing flow rates the fuel pump doesn't even look like it exists, also with gas stations on corners that are window as hell and the car shakes (like someone is pushing on a car back and forth) around when fueling also starts to disprove this theory. yes it gets that windy sometimes in the windy city

I also emailed BP on this after talking to a few engineers there and they aren't really for sure why you should shut your engine off. i am going to get to the bottom of this.

And for the people who say it should be off there is nothing to substantiate your claim, so don't bash what you can't back

 

[Spoolin4Ever]

And for the people who say it should be off there is nothing to substantiate your claim, so don't bash what you can't back

"According to the National Fire Protection Association, on an average, one in 13 service stations has experienced a fire. Causes of these fires included mechanical, electrical problems with a vehicle, cigarettes and static electricity."

There ya go.

Can you prove that it's NOT dangerous? What do you have to substantiate your theory?

 

[boredguy128]

the causes for the fires, and if the car running while fueling is a factor, you don't see anything that proves this, note how broad they stay with claims of failure and they don't say it happens while fueling with the car on. A leaking fuel rail fire is not because of fueling the car.

Some of you guys should have been around for the salem witch trials you would have fit in really good.

BP is going to get back to me more about this. Find out the causes of fires when you say people did studies, the studies could have been poorly performed.

When they say mechanical and electrical they never say what it was, or if the car was done being fueled and was then started. and vice versa, there is no proof to argue one way is better than the other because the real answer looks to be there is no better way

and my claims are all stated

we know static electricty and cigarettes can cause a fire, the rest of the claims i have yet to see backing on being able to blame a particular device on the car because it was running while being fueled. People are driving right by your gas tank door every day when you fill their motor if an older car probably has arcing wires. now your engine much farther away than that person who pulled up behind your or drove past you. i have yet to see this as a claim yet

there is no evidence to prove either way

 

[DSM BEEYACH]

Static electricity and, cell phones have nothing to do with the hazard of leaving your car running. Static electricity occurs when you are wearing synthetic clothing. when you get out of the car wearing synthetic clothing as you get out of the seat you create static electricity. When you go to touch the pump nozzle a spark may occur. A cell phone is not a hazard in it self but, because its plastic its can cause static electricity. Also for a spark great enough to cause a fire to occur it must be very dry outside. Thats why its recommended that you don't get in and, out of the car when pumping gas as there is a greater risk of static electricity to occur. Getting in and, out of the car to turn the engine off for some reason or getting back in the car to get money creates a greater risk of static electricity to occur. The reason why its says please turn engine off at the pump is the same as why you don't leave children in the car and, don't leave the pump unattended. God forbid that your car goes in to gear while your pumping gas there could be a serious accident. Anyway When you pay at the pump and, you don't have any children in the car i to don't see any reason to shutting the engine off. Like it has been said already there is a greater risk of a fire to occur during ignition than anything else besides smoking near the pump.

 

[killakev805]

Here is some interesting info for you guys. I used to work in a gas station and the owner taught me a little bit on what will and will not cause gas to ignite. It is the fumes not the gas, for example take a 5 gallon bucket and fill it all the way to the top with gas. Light a match and drop it in, it will not ignite, it will blow it out. Now take a half empty bucket of gas and drop a match in it (don't really do that unless you want to lose an arm ) and it will blow up. Here is why, when the bucket is full there is no oxygen to burn, when it is half empty there is oxygen to burn. If remember back in chemistry class that a fire requires oxygen to burn.

So to answer about pumping gas with the car running, go for it, it is the same as having the car off. A fire will not start unless you spill some gas and then create a spark near those fumes.

 

[GSXtreme0209]

I use to work at a gas station (In oregon all full service) and the only time I enforced the shutting engine off policy was when I could tell the person was an ass, then I would do it just to be an ass right back, but gas isn't as dangerous as everyone makes it out to be. Little project for ya, get like a 1G gas can fill it halfway and drop a lit cig in it what would happen nothing... in this case it would be too deep and would just put out the cig. So take the same can and leave only a little in it barely enough to cover the bottom and do the same thing. Bottom line is leaving your running shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Defiant]

this thread is not about how long to turbo time your car

Perhaps not, but your statement

When I get gas i don't shut my engine off (because I care about my turbo).

Kind of made it that. With a water-cooled spool, turbo timing is pointless, as is allowing the engine to idle. If you came in slowly enough to fit between the pumps and not kill a pedestrian, your turbo won't care about the slight heatsoak the coolant will be rapidly dissipating.

As for engine shutoff, this law dates to the 1920s, when leaky spark plug wires and other ready sources of ignition were abundant, and designs such as the Ford Model A had the gas tank in the cowl, just above your knees and over the engine. The filler cap is square in the center, and any spilled gasoline will be headed right into the engine compartment. While a healty engine doesn't tend to leak spark so much these days, we do have crispy-warm cataclysmic diverters under the cars. What most likely saves the cavalier souls such as yourself is the simple weight of gasoline vapors. If you can find a pump without vapor recovery anymore, get the light just right and watch how the fumes just plummet to the ground down the side of your car. Their volatility and low vapor pressure cause them to diffuse before they can make a dangerously large concentration of flammable vapor. Look how often you find spillage at a gas station, and how often cars drive over them on the way in and out, yet the fire frequency is amazingly low.
I doubt any consumer safety outfit would ever let us embark on gasoline fueling, particularly self-serve, if the scheme wasn't already widely in place.
One cup of vaporized gasoline has the approximate explosive power of four sticks of dynamite, as the occasional boater demonstrates with an unventilated bilge every so often. But getting gasoline to burn with explosive force can be quite the challenge, as any carb tuner could tell you.
Ah, but the world is fraught with dangers that many industries thrive on promoting. Depletion of the ozone layer, for instance.

How do you check your oil if the engine's running?