Shifting problem?!?

[craracer05]

I finally got my talon back on the road, but I still can't get it to shift correctly.At first the clutch had no fluid in it so I filled it and bleed it. This helped somewhat so I adjust the pedal assembly to its max adjustment, and the clutch still grabs about an inch and half off the floor. 1st,2nd and reverse are all hard to get into. My select cable is very stiff however my shift cable is nice an smooth. Should I buy new shifter cables and bushings(the shift cable bushing is shot) or did I not bleed clutch properly. I also though maybe the cables are out of adjustment?

 

[Talesin]

It sounds like your left/right cable is misadjusted. If the bushing is shot, this will also cause the hard shifting problem. Just do the skateboard bearing mod, it REALLY helps.

As for the clutch, check VFAQ under the drivetrain section, they have an article on clutch disengagement and how to tell if you need a new pivot ball. You can also watch the end of the shift fork while someone presses down the clutch.. if it just doesn't move (after a dead pivot ball has been ruled out) then it'd be a rebleed that is neccessary.

 

[pitbull419]

Not trying to be rude but you dont adjust the pedal assembly(you weld a worn assembly)You adjust the master to its max.(If you have to do this something else is more than likely worn out somewhere for example pivot ball,release fork,flywheel.)

 

[craracer05]

I did adjust the master cylinder to max, i checked for play in the pedal and it has very little play but the question is will a little bit of play cause a big problem? I htink my biggest problem is the select cable is out of adjustment the bushing on this cable is ok the actual shift cable has a bad bushing.

 

[craracer05]

Well tonight when I ripped out my interior to clean everything I adjust my seletor cable on my shifter it was slightly off. The car definately shifts better but still to where I would like, I'm goin to order new bushings and see how much that helps as well.

 

[craracer05]

Ok so I thought had the problem fixed but after driving for maybe an hour now the cars shift horrible again, and really seems like a clutch issue do you think i should just repalce the master and slave, I believe summit racing carries them for like 15-20 bucks a peice!

 

[turboAWDfanatic]

Sounds like clutch disengagement problems to me. 2 ways to test for proper engagement:
1) Put car up on jack stands so that all 4 wheels are in the air. Start car, put clutch in, shift into 1st. Let out clutch and see at what point the wheels start to move. It should be a ways up from the floor. You may be surprised how soon it engages when there's no weight on the wheels.
2) Cut and pasted from Jack at Jack's Transmissions:

1) Have the car running with the e-brake off so it can roll.
2) Push the clutch pedal all the way to the floor and hold it there.
3) Turn off your launch limiter in DSM Link.
4) Put the car into 1st gear.
5) Revv the engine up until you feel the car start to move forward.

If the car moves forward below 7000RPM, your clutch is dragging and that's why it doesn't want to shift.

If clutch disengagement is the problem:

- Bleed the system again.
- Replace/rebuild your master/slave. (check cylinder bores for scoring/scratches if you rebuild. I'd recommend getting Mitsu parts over cheap stuff)
- Bleed AGAIN
- A little bit of play can mean a lot. Check out the FAQ's on the issue. Its not actually as hard as people say to pull the assembly out. I found that *removing* the brake booster rather than simply moving it out a bit made it SOOO much easier to remove the pedal assembly.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196048
http://web.archive.org/web/20040605110220/www.taboospeedshop.com/clutch_pedal_assembly.htm
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156805
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96981

If you get a worn assembly welded, be SURE you preload it into the proper position! You don't want to weld it at the "worn" position.

- Besides the *normal* 1g pedal wear, the structure that holds the pedals can weaken at the factory welds and flex. Check those, and get them welded to for extra strength even if they aren't the problem (as long as you have the assembly out).
- Get SS braided clutch line
- BLEED BLEED BLEED!!!
- Fork and ball might be worn. Unfortunately you have to pull the trans to replace these. If you pull the trans for any reason, replace the ball/fork/TOB (use factory plastic sleeved TOB)


Adjusting the clutch isn't as easy as it sounds. If you have to thread the adjustment all the way out something else is wrong and threading too far one way will mess up your TOB throw in the other direction. Taboo's website has good info but most of it is taken down. Go to Archive.org and look through archived pages at Taboo speed shop to find good writeups on clutch adjustment.

Have you replaced the clutch/flywheel lately? If so, was the flywheel properly stepped? Read this page for more clutch info:
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/clutchandflywheeltech.htm

If *ALL* else fails (and I hesitate to say this for fear of being flamed), it is possible that clutch disengagement problems can be a result of crankwalk. I'm not screaming "CRANKWALK!!!" b/c you drive a DSM, but excessive play in the crank (which can happen in just about *any* engine) can make it so that your TOB has to travel further to disengage the clutch. Like I stated, this is if *ALL ELSE FAILS*. Do all the other checks and maintenance before you start worrying about crankwalk.

One last note:
Don't use bandaids like extended slave rod or welding a nut onto the master cyl clevis. Some people do say that compensation is needed when you have an aftermarket clutch, but if your clutch is OEM then you shouldn't need anything like that. If your clutch is aftermarket, take care of ALL the maintenance issues and save the master/slave extensions for last.

Hopefully all of that made sense. I'm pretty tired right now. =P

 

[craracer05]

Well tonight I decided to pull my whole pedal assembly to check it it took me about 2-2.5 hours to get out and might I mention I wanted to shoot myself. Well what really ticked me off is that there is wear where the clutch master cylinder rod attaches. I still need to check the main shaft to see if it needs welded but its too late tonight!

 

[Eclipsethis90]

Had similar clutch dragging issues on both my AWD and FWD. I put an old copper crush washer in behind the pivot ball and fork in the transmission and both shift like a charm. That little bit of fulcrum change in the transmission linkage made a huge difference in the adjustment and disengagement of the clutch. I have yet to weld a pedal assembly on either vehicle.

 

[craracer05]

Ok so I pulled the whole assembly out and there is practically no play whatsoever,now i'm just starting to get annoyed.Should I buy a new master and slave or should put the whole thing back together and check the movement where the fork pushes the throw out bearing.

 

[craracer05]

Well yesterday I just decided to through parts at the situation and see if I can solve my problem. I ordered the arm the clutch master cylinder attaches to aswell as a new pin and the bushing behind the arm, and I also got a new master and slave cylinder so wish me luck!

 

[turboAWDfanatic]

If you're running a heavier aftermarket clutch...GET IT WELDED. Even brand new parts will wear out and develop play if you're running an ACT 2600 or something like that.

 

[craracer05]

Well my parts finally came in at the dealer today so I welded up my clutch pedal as thats where all the play was,cured almost all my shifting problems. Second gear will still grind a little when downshifting. I still need to put my shifter cable bearings on I got form Mach V.

 

[JackM]

If it grinds, it's too late. You have a wiped out synchro blocker ring and the grinding is the synchro slider impacting the gear dog teeth.

Pic of damaged slider from impact:

http://www.jackstransmissions.com/evo_sldrdamage.php

Pic of some blocker rings:

http://www.jackstransmissions.com/doublesynchro.php

You will have to replace your 1/2 synchro assembly.

Jack