Seems like clutch slip, but no smell

[dksea37]

So I drove home today from work and my car was fine. It shifted and ran just like normal. I left my house about 15 minutes later and I heard a pop/grind noise. I also could've swore I felt it on the clutch pedal. Now I notice some symptoms of a slipping clutch. My car will rev very high, but I get almost no acceleration. I also do not smell any clutch burning whatsoever. It just doesn't make sense that a clutch could go like that just instantly.

I also noticed some rattle coming from the tranny when I let off the gas and let it slow down. I've checked for codes, but so far there is nothing. Car still seems to shift OK and I don't have any trouble taking off or anything like that. Just no power. Engine and turbo both seem to be normal. I can hear turbo spool like always.

Could this possibly be a bad Throw Out Bearing? I ask because I've always heard a slight whirling noise that went away when I engaged the clutch. I am just not sure if a bad TOB could eventually lead to a problem like this.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

 

[kenamond]

Similar thing happened to me a couple years back. Felt something pop through the pedal and heard something, too. Turned out to be a broken clutch fork, but I didn't hear the grinding or rattling. In my research for my problem, the potential list was:

• broken clutch fork
• spring popped out of the clutch disk
• bad TOB
• broken pivot ball
• broken finger on the pressure plate

The fact that you hear rattling makes me think it's not the clutch fork or pivot ball. In my case, the clutch just stopped disengaging completely with the pedal to the floor. When the tranny was off, the fork and broken tyne were still there.

Only way to tell is to drop the tranny. If busted parts are in there potentially causing more damage, you might want to park it until you can drop the tranny.

 

[dksea37]

Yeah, I will definitely be parking it until I can drop the tranny. But how hard is it really to drop the AWD tranny? From what I've read, it sounds like a pain in the ass.

I also forgot to mention my tranny always had a weird rattle at low RPMs, so I may just be hearing that more now. But the popping noise makes me think something broke, like a clutch fork.

You didn't smell any clutch did you?

 

[kenamond]

Yeah, I will definitely be parking it until I can drop the tranny. But how hard is it really to drop the AWD tranny? From what I've read, it sounds like a pain in the ass.

I also forgot to mention my tranny always had a weird rattle at low RPMs, so I may just be hearing that more now. But the popping noise makes me think something broke, like a clutch fork.

You didn't smell any clutch did you?

I didn't smell anything, but the clutch would only slip a bit with the pedal to the floor, and I knew something was wrong so I took it easy until I could get it fixed.

I chickened out and had a local shop drop the tranny (what a mess that turned out to be). The guy finally gets the tranny off and is talking about strange wear patterns on my pressure plate. I show up and walk under the car and pull the broken fork out and hand it to him.

I almost did it myself, but chickened out. The AWD makes it a bit more of a pain, because you have to drop the exhaust to get the xfer case off, but the rest should be the same as FWD. Then the issue is whether you have a lift, how strong you are, etc. If I had it to do over, I'd have done it myself and recruited my neighbor to help lower the tranny. If you have a floor jack, they often offer an attachment for lowering a tranny. I'd just do some homework and see if it's something you (and a friend and a few beers/bribes) are up to trying.

My experience is that you fear the unknown, dive in anyway, then find out it wasn't so hard after all.

EDIT: You don't have to drop the whole exhaust. Just enough to get the xfer case off which also means wiring the drive shaft to something under the car so it doesn't hang down too much. And make sure you set the xfer case propped on something to keep it level or the fluid will drain out.

 

[dksea37]

Do you remember how much it cost the shop to do this?

And I actually have a transmission jack and my dad (who has been working on cars his whole life) so I mean we could do it ourselves, but like you said, I just have a fear of diving in.

But thanks for the input, I'll be sure to post again with updates, but that may not be for a while

 

[c2ypt1c]

I agree, the only way you'll know for sure is to drop the tranny. You might be able to scope things out from the flywheel inspection plate but I doubt it'll tell you anything. I've taken mine out three times now and it was one of the first major stepping stones for me. I highly recommend doing it for the experience, confidence, and satisfaction. BTW, when my clutch was slipping I did not smell anything.

 

[dksea37]

I agree, the only way you'll know for sure is to drop the tranny. You might be able to scope things out from the flywheel inspection plate but I doubt it'll tell you anything. I've taken mine out three times now and it was one of the first major stepping stones for me. I highly recommend doing it for the experience, confidence, and satisfaction. BTW, when my clutch was slipping I did not smell anything.

I'm really considering doing it myself now, the only real thing holding me back is I don't always have time with school and work.

But you didn't smell anything, but it was indeed the clutch that was the problem?

 

[kenamond]

Do your homework and do it yourself. They charged me way too much, but I'm guessing I could have had it done cheaper elsewhere (they lost a customer, BTW). It would've cost nothing but my time if I did it myself (fork is really cheap).

Make your old man proud and do it yourself. You'll feel great about it afterward.

 

[95DsManiac]

I had the very same problem, but it would only happen when it got hot. I knew it was the clutch going out and yes it happens just like that, instantly. I had two clutches go and the second was when I was on the freeway and I wasn't in boost just cruising and it revved to the moon. It most likely happens under high load in the higher gears, 3-4-5. High load doesn't necessarily mean under boost either. Looks like its time to upgrade the clutch while your dipping into the tranny.

Yea, it is really a pain if it's the first time and if your by yourself, like I was during my first time doing a clutch job. It took me three 2-3 hour days. Only because I was working on it at someone else's house and had to wait till they got off work.

As for the rattle, it could be the throw out bearing rattling.

I would definitely recommend the following while your in the transmission;

.Change clutch of course
.resurface and step the flywheel, or better yet get a new one. (Better to upgrade things that are hard to get to you know.)
.change out the TOB ONLY WITH OEM ONE
.check for input shaft play
.check the pivot ball
.check the clutch fork
.check for any foreign debris
.check out the diffs
.check the axles and replace if necessary
.check the master and slave cylinders out
.and remember to measure twice cut once.... And upon installing or after finishing check the pedal for correct engagement and adjust if needed. It's under the Dash above the clutch pedal. A good way I would be able to see if I needed adjustment without needing to start the car and push the pedal etc. Would be to check the clutch fork where the slave rod comes in contact with and see if the clutch fork is in the middle of the rubber boot. I forget what side it is suppose to be closer to driver or passenger, but the middle is where I would start.

I hope this helps, if you have anymore questions just let me and the others know and we will be happy to help you out.

Anthony B.

 

[kenamond]

I agree that you should consider upgrading while the tranny is off...if you have the funds. If you don't want the car offline for too long, I'd just order fork, pivot ball, TOB no matter what you do so you have those handy. If you want to spring for a clutch, now's the time. My ACT clutch wasn't too expensive and I even replaced the "street disc" when I had the fork issue just because the clutch was apart.

Also, you could call a shop and ask how much to replace a clutch.

 

[dksea37]

Thanks for the input and help guys! I REALLY appreciate it

I think I'm going to try and tackle this in my own garage and gain the experience myself.

I'll update again whenever I can get around to doing this. I'll contact you guys if I need any advice or help

 

[c2ypt1c]

But you didn't smell anything, but it was indeed the clutch that was the problem?

I never smelt anything from either clutch. First was the oem clutch that finally went out and the second was an xtd (ebay) clutch stage 4, 6puck unsprung. It ran fine for about a year and a half but it started slipping as well. Replaced that one with an ACT 2600 and haven't had a problem since.

I'm really considering doing it myself now, the only real thing holding me back is I don't always have time with school and work.

Yeah I can totally relate to that. Especially, since my dsm is my daily driver. The only thing I can say is get some alternative transportation set up and take your time, that way you're not so stressed out while working on it. It's going to take a bit longer considering that it's your first time around. Expect to get frustrated, pissed off and if you have any doubt about something, search or ask on this forum and we'll have your back. Try to have fun and enjoy building a special bond with your dsm too

 

[dksea37]

I agree that you should consider upgrading while the tranny is off...if you have the funds. If you don't want the car offline for too long, I'd just order fork, pivot ball, TOB no matter what you do so you have those handy. If you want to spring for a clutch, now's the time. My ACT clutch wasn't too expensive and I even replaced the "street disc" when I had the fork issue just because the clutch was apart.

I've looked at Rockauto and autozone. Neither of them carry the fork or pivot ball. And ideas? I'll definitely look into a clutch upgrade as well.

 

[kenamond]

Awesome! Once you've come out the other end, you'll have much more confidence in doing other maintenance and modifications. I got hooked when I blew my turbo. I upgraded a bunch of stuff and even ported my exhaust manifold, turbine housing, and O2 sensor housing while I was at it. Then I just kept at it and kept reading/contributing to the forum. I'll never sell my DSM.

 

[95DsManiac]

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts and Welcome to stmmotorsports.com are your best friends for any parts you need performance and most any oem part needed. : JNZ Tuning is good too.

Good luck on whichever you decide. Trust me, if you like working on your Dsm, you,ll have fun doing this on your own. I have been working on my car for the past 3 months every single day and have spent soooooo much time and money (close to 20k in almost a year and two builds). Everything you do to your dms yourself in knowledge gained and next time you'll know what to do and be able to do it yourself and half the time.

Good luck, god bless.

Anthony B.

 

[dksea37]

Awesome! Once you've come out the other end, you'll have much more confidence in doing other maintenance and modifications. I got hooked when I blew my turbo. I upgraded a bunch of stuff and even ported my exhaust manifold, turbine housing, and O2 sensor housing while I was at it. Then I just kept at it and kept reading/contributing to the forum. I'll never sell my DSM.

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts and Welcome to stmmotorsports.com are your best friends for any parts you need performance and most any oem part needed. : JNZ Tuning is good too.

Good luck on whichever you decide. Trust me, if you like working on your Dsm, you,ll have fun doing this on your own. I have been working on my car for the past 3 months every single day and have spent soooooo much time and money (close to 20k in almost a year and two builds). Everything you do to your dms yourself in knowledge gained and next time you'll know what to do and be able to do it yourself and half the time.

Theres so many things I would LOVE to do to my DSM, but at this point in my life, funds are limited with school. I've become obsessed haha. One day, she'll be great

 

[mechreatalon]

I had a similar experience except it wasn't my clutch that went bad. I was turning a corner when I felt a pop. Then any time I accelerated my rpms would rev high and I would hardly go anywhere. I thought it was my clutch. I got the car home and the next morning I figure I'd take a look just for the hell of it. It turned out my intermediate shaft that hooks up from the driverside axle to the transmission had popped out. This was on my 1996 AWD Talon. What I found out had happened was, that one of the bolts that holds the bearing bracket onto the block backed out causing stress on the second bolt eventually breaking off. Which was the pop that I had felt. The input side of the shaft was still laying in the hole for the transmission but was not far enough in to be engaged. This may not be the issue but maybe it wouldn't hurt to take a look if you haven't done so.

 

[dksea37]

I had a similar experience except it wasn't my clutch that went bad. I was turning a corner when I felt a pop. Then any time I accelerated my rpms would rev high and I would hardly go anywhere. I thought it was my clutch. I got the car home and the next morning I figure I'd take a look just for the hell of it. It turned out my intermediate shaft that hooks up from the driverside axle to the transmission had popped out. This was on my 1996 AWD Talon. What I found out had happened was, that one of the bolts that holds the bearing bracket onto the block backed out causing stress on the second bolt eventually breaking off. Which was the pop that I had felt. The input side of the shaft was still laying in the hole for the transmission but was not far enough in to be engaged. This may not be the issue but maybe it wouldn't hurt to take a look if you haven't done so.

I planned on taking a look at everything like that before ordering any parts, I just haven't had the chance yet .

 

[kenamond]

I had a similar experience except it wasn't my clutch that went bad. I was turning a corner when I felt a pop. Then any time I accelerated my rpms would rev high and I would hardly go anywhere. I thought it was my clutch. I got the car home and the next morning I figure I'd take a look just for the hell of it. It turned out my intermediate shaft that hooks up from the driverside axle to the transmission had popped out. This was on my 1996 AWD Talon. What I found out had happened was, that one of the bolts that holds the bearing bracket onto the block backed out causing stress on the second bolt eventually breaking off. Which was the pop that I had felt. The input side of the shaft was still laying in the hole for the transmission but was not far enough in to be engaged. This may not be the issue but maybe it wouldn't hurt to take a look if you haven't done so.

I love this forum! If this is the case with OP, this is easier to fix. My clutch fork broke at the end of my street when I pushed in the clutch to stop and look left/right/left to turn off my street. I wasn't turning.

 

[c2ypt1c]

I had a similar experience except it wasn't my clutch that went bad . . .

Just to add to this...OP, I never experienced any pop/grinding when my clutches went out. It was more of a gradual thing. So I also suggest you exhaust all other possibilites before dropping the tranny.

 

[dksea37]

Just to add to this...OP, I never experienced any pop/grinding when my clutches went out. It was more of a gradual thing. So I also suggest you exhaust all other possibilites before dropping the tranny.

I don't know what else it could be. Clutch fluid was good when I checked. Clutch pedal feels the same as it always did. Any ideas on anything else it could possibly be?

 

[c2ypt1c]

Any ideas on anything else it could possibly be?

This sounds like a good candidate for inspection:

It turned out my intermediate shaft that hooks up from the driverside axle to the transmission had popped out.

I'd also inspect the hydraulic system (ie, master and slave cylinder) for the clutch and make sure they're not leaking. If they are, look into rebuilding/replacing them as well.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Mechreatalon makes a good point; if you broke an axle, driveshaft, or t-case, you might just be feeling the VC slipping, not the clutch.

 

[boost97gst]

I agree, the only way you'll know for sure is to drop the tranny. You might be able to scope things out from the flywheel inspection plate but I doubt it'll tell you anything. I've taken mine out three times now and it was one of the first major stepping stones for me. I highly recommend doing it for the experience, confidence, and satisfaction. BTW, when my clutch was slipping I did not smell anything.

Yea haha, us FWD guys got it easy. Dropping the tranny is like falling off a log. So simple and fast.
Ive heard awd is a bit tougher but w tcase out of the way it should be relatively similar. You have an extra bracket on the pass side axle to worry about. Actually.....not a whole lot extra to do.

Now the one ive heard is the worst is the awd auto. Ive heard pulling the tranny with engine in the car is nearly impossible. Guess ill find that out personally in a month or 2!

OP: GL, I agree with others: do this job yourself. Its not gonna be THAT bad and when you look back on it, you will feel a huge sense of accomplishment at what you have achieved. Not saying to jump in to a tranny rebuild just yet , but thsi is a great stepping stone. Best of luck to you and watch ya hands! Easy to bust knuckles and smoosh fingers on this job. Make sure to have someone help remove and install it.

 

[Mark4g63t]

FWD definitely easier to get off..just because it takes less time. AWD easier to get back in (in my opinion) cause they have a flat spot that makes it sit perfect when you jack it back up. It's a super easy task and if you rock out to some music and label all the bolts and stuff then the job is no biggie and quite a fun learning experience.