S-afc I Or Ii, Why? Why Not?

[Race94]

I've heard mixed opinions about the apex S-AFC, i have all bolt on's + a 14b and plan to put in some 550's and an AFPR for my 255lph and that's probably it.
Stock IC etc

I need some sort of fuel control, i was thinking a chip or an S-AFC, i really don't want to be tuning the car more than once, and it's a daily driver, i want to get it to produce the most HP in a set-up and leave it at that. Maybe play with it a bit u know and i want to tune myself since i want to learn too.

I have heard mixed things about S-AFC, that it's not worth it, that it's not really a tuning tool etc.

What's the real scoop on this? How do you guys like it? From personal experiences.

P.S
I'm only looking for low 13's on my GST
Thanks

 

[Anomoly#5]

I've heard mixed opinions about the apex S-AFC, i have all bolt on's + a 14b and plan to put in some 550's and an AFPR for my 255lph and that's probably it.
Stock IC etc

I need some sort of fuel control, i was thinking a chip or an S-AFC, i really don't want to be tuning the car more than once, and it's a daily driver, i want to get it to produce the most HP in a set-up and leave it at that. Maybe play with it a bit u know and i want to tune myself since i want to learn too.

You will be tuning all the time, it will not be some one time deal... there can be improvements, especially if you dont have access to a wideband.

I have heard mixed things about S-AFC, that it's not worth it, that it's not really a tuning tool etc.

It basically tricks your ECU by manipulating the MAF signal, so the ECU thinks it see's less/more air. It is utilized by a large number of this community that your posting on, and if it did'nt work well, We would not use it.

What's the real scoop on this? How do you guys like it? From personal experiences.

P.S
I'm only looking for low 13's on my GST
Thanks

good luck

 

[GPTourer]

If all your looking for is around 300whp (or even more) then a SAFC(2) is a fine tuning tool. There are other options, but few that are so convenient and cheap. I don't know why anyone would say its not a tuning tool, because that is precisely what it is. You don't have to change your settings every day, or even seasonal unless you just want to, but it takes a dyno or a real o2 sensor, pocketlooger, and EGT and wide open highway to do 3rd/4th gear pulls to really get it dialed in right. Otherwise your just guessing, and that's no good.

Not having control over timing is an issue, but like I said - until you start getting into 400whp range, start exceeding the MAS, and are using "big" turbos (50trim, 20g, green, etc) and big injectors 720+. this usually isn't a problem.

I doubt you'll get into low 13's with that setup unless you have the car professionally tuned and are a helluva driver.

 

[Anomoly#5]

Agreed

 

[krazywhitboy]

i'm doing the same setup you are. the safc2 isn't too hard to tune with, once you get the hang out it. i have heard of plenty of people on here pulling off mid 12's on a 14b with 550's, safc2, logger etc. but again, its all about the tuning and the driver. and i agree, the safc is a tuning tool, to a certain extent. like GPTourer said, once you get into the bigger turbo's, its not as effective.....

 

[GPTourer]

i have heard of plenty of people on here pulling off mid 12's on a 14b with 550's, safc2, logger etc.

Oh I agree, with AWD. But he's a FWD and is probably going to be at least a second slower and then some unless you've got a KAAZ and DR's, then you might be able to get within a few tenths of that. But on a stock pegleg with a beginner tuned 14b on the stock IC...

 

[gixrman]

GPTourer you contradicted yourself. You say its a tunning tool but you need a,b,c, to affectivly monitor what changes you made that are affecting your fuel. The AFC is just what it says it is a Air Fuel Convertor or air meter adjustment tool. I guess in a broad sense of terms it is a tunning add.

Save your money and get DSMLink. By the time you buy the AFC($300), Pocketlogger($300), Wideband($300-600) you could have just had the DSMlink and been able to tune way more. Plus you will some day want to go bigger someday when that new vette smokes your a$$ and your thinking 60 trim payback time.

 

[eclipse90gsxt]

I preferr the AFC 1 because IMO its easier to use. If you can find a used pocketlogger setup and a cheap afc, you will be fine. If you go bigger I would buy a dsmlink since it can do a lot more.

 

[Race94]

sorry if it sounded unrealistic i know it is

Anyways i don't think i'll go out enough performance wise as to put in DSMlink, that's why i opt for the SAFC, but would i need a logger?

I was planning on putting in the inyectors, AFPR and S-AFC and have it dyno tuned at the psi i'm going to run everytime.

Would i still need a logger??

 

[eclipse90gsxt]

http://www.digitaltuning.com/index.php?pid=pldsm

Its a good thing to have. You can log different things on the car(02's, knock, fuel trims..etc.). It can also see any codes thrown, and check different settings easier(tps..etc.)

 

[GPTourer]

GPTourer you contradicted yourself. You say its a tunning tool but you need a,b,c, to affectivly monitor what changes you made that are affecting your fuel.

Well, okay. It is a tuning tool, and the guages by themselves are tuning aids. You could see whats going on with just an O2 and logger, but you can't doing anything about it. Its all semantics, but I see your point. I don't have a wideband either. All it took me was $75 worth of dyno time to get it tuned. My logger I think was $165, PDA included - comes in handy as a code clearer.

DSMLink is cool, and I'll eventually upgrade to it, but an SAFC2 new for $300 bucks (or used for whatever you can get on E-bay) versus the new ECU and and Link its still a relative bargain. Cars ran fast back in the day with just an SAFC before there was DSM Link and they still can today its all relative.

 

[gixrman]

yea, I see your point, I just wish I would have did the dsmlink instead of buying everything else. just trying to save him the agravation.

 

[lowridin2g]

I need some sort of fuel control, i was thinking a chip or an S-AFC, i really don't want to be tuning the car more than once, and it's a daily driver,

its impossible to get a good tune and then have it stay like that forever. doesnt happen that way. theyres too many factors that effect one's "tune" of a car. good luck

 

[Race94]

is there any HP to be gained from my car if i keep the stock 450cc inyectors??

 

[ChicagoGSX]

is there any HP to be gained from my car if i keep the stock 450cc inyectors??

A little, but you're better of spending your money on other things until you upgrade injectors.

 

[GPTourer]

Its a good thing to have. You can log different things on the car(02's, knock, fuel trims..etc.). It can also see any codes thrown, and check different settings easier(tps..etc.)

You can't log knock on a 2G. The SAFC2 has a knock sensor, but some people say it doesn't work on 2G's and other people say it does it just takes time to set it up right. I don't pay any attention to mine and may one day get around to trying to set it up. I don't really use my logger that much because I can take it to a dyno and have it done. I like to check up on it from time to time to look at fuel trims and timing curve, but nothing seems to have changed drastically in the eight months its been since it was on a dyno. My car rarely throws any CELs, but I've used it to clear other cars too.

If you don't have ready acess to a dyno, or its just too expensive then you will HAVE TO HAVE a logger and a wideband to come anywhere close to a decent tune for your car. You can drive around and get your fuel trims all as close to zero as you can and having smooth timing curves, but you will still be missing out on top performance without being able to moniter your A/F properly. Some people swear by third/fourth gear pulls on the highway with a wideband as being the BEST tune when done right, even better then a dyno because the car is actually out under real airflow conditions - instead of the usually stifling conditions of a dyno room. As far as making changes seasonally, well yeah - if it gets really hot in the summer and cold in the winter (like it does here) then you could make some changes to compensate and of course if you make any changes to the car. I have enough headroom built in to my tune (still pretty conservative) to not really worry about it. I just adjust the boost a little (higher in winter, lower in summer) - but that's mainly because I'm still on the punk ass stock IC.

You'd be on the ragged edge trying to get max power on 450's and a 14b so it would be tough not having all the tools necessary to moniter it. Seasonal changes would have a pretty big effect on such a car I would think.