RWD 4G63 Subframe mod?

[4g63tc]

He could Possibly do it.

If...
He has, Extensive fab experience, the tools needed to accomplish the job.

Does not send everything out to be welded, gusseted, cleaned, painted..Does all the work Himself

BTW, the IRS 8.8 is still 200 from the junkyard, and will handle the powah he's looking for. I personally prefer the 8.8 over the Getrag anyday. The 8.8's handle LSx motors all day long.

I've been slowly Purchasing parts for an LS swap into my New Project Miata.
I'm over 8k already, and it's going to keep climbing.

I'm running an LS6 > T56 (6 speed) > 8.8 LSD rear. when all is said and done, it will run on a stock GM tune, and hopefully 11's out of the box, on a car that can be DD all day long...with AC.

He can do it, but you're right 5k is a bit conservative.

 

[91stocker]

It wont be a 5k build, no matter how you go around to it...

This^

Its just plain stupid to think you can do it for 5k.

This is pointless. You'll have 5k just in the back half of the car. Another 5k in safety equipment. For 5-8k you could buy a prostreet roller already tubbed and caged.

 

[DSM's 4 life]

I am going to prove all of you wrong.

 

[gabytech]

I am going to prove all of you wrong.

Looks like giving you advise is just pointless, like I said maybe just maybe you can get away with the 5k build with cheap parts that realistically won't hold or with a car that will launch horribly and will swerve all the way thru the track. Good luck NOT breaking every few months and ending up with a nightmare car... Some people just don't want to listen to those who have done and do this everyday... YOU AIN'T GOING TO PROVE ME WRONG, I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. Been a auto tech, road race crew mechanic, and drag racer for 10+ years, I know what Im talking about...

BTW, Do you want me to link you to the guy who did cut the crossmember in half and welded a tube together to fit the trans an it didn't work ?? http://www.eagletalon.net/build/index.php/2005/08/. "Front Suspension: Okay, this is a giant clusterfok, but we're looking good with the suspension now. Round 1 of the front suspension involved way too much of the stock setup – we swapped front hub left-to-right, and thought we'd be able to use spacers and stuff, and try to tune out the toe-change through the suspension travel. Unfortunately, that was a big mistake. Thankfully, we were somewhat prepared for that, so we came up with another idea. Round 2 used the stock front hubs, but we welded a new steering arm to the front hubs. This probably would have worked, but we decided to scrap it because we just wanted to revamp the front suspension. The new setup is great. We're using 1-5/8″ chromoly tubing for the subframe with some 1″ chromoly tubing for the control arms. It's coming along nicely."

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People have already been thru trial and error converting RWD DSMs. Learn to listen DSM's 4 life... AND HERE I AM STILL TRYING TO BETTER GUIDE YOU...

 

[DSM's 4 life]

Thanks for the link that's the kind of input I'm looking for.

 

[gabytech]

Thanks for the link that's the kind of input I'm looking for.

Im NOT trying to hate your build, eventhough Im NOT a fan of that kind of swaps, its your car and your build, Im just trying to give you the best possible advice. Go with the flow DSM's 4 life of those who know and do...

 

[crash89]

In so I can watch this go way over budget!

Also, instead of buying or making some from spindles you could just swap them. The way they are now, the tie rod is in the rear, swap them to the opposite side then the tie rod mount would be on the forward side.

I also agree that if you're asking on how you're going to make the steering work, you really have no idea what your doing and are jumping into this WAY over your head.

 

[gabytech]

Also, instead of buying or making some from spindles you could just swap them. The way they are now, the tie rod is in the rear, swap them to the opposite side then the tie rod mount would be on the forward side.

That aint as simple as that, that will completely change the dynamic of the suspension and the alignment of the car. The only right way to get over the front suspension hump will be aftermarket or custom knuckles design to work with tube control arms and fab a tube crossmember...

I know he going with a big block, but that's why most DSM guys who RWD a 4G63 engine end up using a RWD chassis like a Starion, Corolla, etc, to avoid going thru a chassis nightmare like this. Just the chassis alone been FWD/AWD will heavily need to be modified to convert it to a RWD chassis, that alone will eat the 5k budget, even the 5k wont be enough for the chassis fab if he's going to have a fab shop do the chassis work. PLEASE DONT TRY AND HAVE SOMEONE WHO HAS A WELDER BUT ISN'T A CHASSIS EXPERT DO THE CHASSIS FABRICATION, YOU GOING TO REGRET IT, THERE ARE A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE, SKILLS, AND SPECS REQUIRED WHEN FABRICATING A SUSPENSION SYSTEM AND CHASSIS THAT A NORMAL WELDER WONT HAVE, ESPECIALLY IN A RACE CAR.

 

[DSM's 4 life]

Im NOT trying to hate your build, eventhough Im NOT a fan of that kind of swaps, its your car and your build, Im just trying to give you the best possible advice. Go with the flow DSM's 4 life of those who know and do...

In so I can watch this go way over budget!

Also, instead of buying or making some from spindles you could just swap them. The way they are now, the tie rod is in the rear, swap them to the opposite side then the tie rod mount would be on the forward side.

I also agree that if you're asking on how you're going to make the steering work, you really have no idea what your doing and are jumping into this WAY over your head.

You would get way to much caster from that

 

[gabytech]

I am going to prove all of you wrong.

Remember: The cheaper option turns out more expensive. For what seems cheaper at first can ultimately turn out to be an expensive mistake.

 

[DSM's 4 life]

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[phunny]

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Are you showing us that you have made zero progress???

 

[gabytech]

Guess you still going forward with your big block 5k budget DSM build.... Im going to subscribe to the thread, just to see the botchery and nightmare 5k budget project gone wrong or go from 5k to 15k... Some ppl just don't want to listen...

 

[CrackedDSM]

I am going to prove all of you wrong.

Can't wait to tell you we told you so.

 

[gabytech]

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Does that 8pt roll bar even have 6" square steel plates welded to the unibody chassis ??? DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT... Also the main hoop frame support bars ARENT welded right... That roll bar AINT going to pass safety inspection...

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[SRiz]

Dude, I got faith in you. I converted my car to AWD for $300 and put a 6 bolt in for about $200. (Lots of buying and selling to make it happen) 5 years later my 12.5 @111MPH daily driver that gets 28MPG is still going (6 autox, 2 rally cross, dozens of 1/4 miles later) ... SUBSCRIBED!

 

[gabytech]

Dude, I got faith in you. I converted my car to AWD for $300 and put a 6 bolt in for about $200. (Lots of buying and selling to make it happen) 5 years later my 12.5 @111MPH daily driver that gets 28MPG is still going (6 autox, 2 rally cross, dozens of 1/4 miles later) ... SUBSCRIBED!

Its two different things converting a FWD DSM to AWD since they came AWD, and can be converted with just the minor modifications to the floor for the subframe bolts... That aint exactly a custom project... Converting a FWD/AWD DSM into RWD, there lots lots of custom fabrication needed in the engine bay to fit the engine and its accesories, the trans tunnel to fit the trans, and the right rear end to hold the RWD power.... It obviously can be done, but not the right way with 5k. He doesn't know whats he getting into and he doesn't want to listen to those who have done DSM RWD conversions before... He started the thread asking questions a basic knowledgeable gearhead in custom projects should know, so obviously he doesn't know much, but when been answered and adviced by other fellow DSMers and gearheads he comes back at us saying he's going to prove us wrong...

 

[DSM's 4 life]

Are you showing us that you have made zero progress???

Yeah "zero progress" I removed all the sound deadener, installed half of my roll cage it's a 10 point not an 8. And finished disassembly of the bib block. All in two days but thanks for being a smartass.

 

[gabytech]

Yeah "zero progress" I removed all the sound deadener, installed half of my roll cage it's a 10 point not an 8. And finished disassembly of the bib block. All in two days but thanks for being a smartass.

Whatever the cage might be, 8pt or 10pt it doesnt matter. The rear strut brace doesnt have the 6" steel plates welded to the towers. The whole cage need to have 6" steel plates welded or bolted in a unibody car. Our cars are unibody unlike body-on-frame cars... That cage aint going to pas NHRA certification... Ive seen this over and over again, ppl not knowing and not listening ending up with their cage not getting NHRA certified. You might not care about having it certified and a few track dont care, but the wisest and smartest choice when building a race car is to build it NHRA legal and be able to get certified from the get go... Ive seen to many times before ppl do this, finish their car and get turned back cause it didnt pass NHRA certification, time is money and theres nothing worse than have to redo a cage... For once try and not be so hardheaded and listen to the people who have been track racing for years, save yourself the hassle... Theres a few other things that dont look right, but Im not going there as Im not seeing the cage build process, but just by the pic I can tell you aint building it using the right steps.

Like I said, its your car, so if you want to put a big block in an import thats your choice, but make sure to build it right from the get go and listen to the experienced ppl. This seems to be your first race car build, learn by listening not by trial and error, you'll save money listening than doing things twice... I've seen cars that could have been built with 10k from the get go end up getting built with 20k just because they had to redo the cage, suspension, etc... I can understand you on a budget, which that should be a concern to build it right as not to spend unnecesary budget money redoing stuff...

 

[DSM's 4 life]

Whatever the cage might be, 8pt or 10pt it doesnt matter. The rear strut brace doesnt have the 6" steel plates welded to the towers. The whole cage need to have 6" steel plates welded or bolted in a unibody car. Our cars are unibody unlike body-on-frame cars... That cage aint going to pas NHRA certification... Ive seen this over and over again, ppl not knowing and not listening ending up with their cage not getting NHRA certified. You might not care about having it certified and a few track dont care, but the wisest and smartest choice when building a race car is to build it NHRA legal and be able to get certified from the get go... Ive seen to many times before ppl do this, finish their car and get turned back cause it didnt pass NHRA certification, time is money and theres nothing worse than have to redo a cage... For once try and not be so hardheaded and listen to the people who have been track racing for years, save yourself the hassle... Theres a few other things that dont look right, but Im not going there as Im not seeing the cage build process, but just by the pic I can tell you aint building it using the right steps.

Like I said, its your car, so if you want to put a big block in an import thats your choice, but make sure to build it right from the get go and listen to the experienced ppl. This seems to be your first race car build, learn by listening not by trial and error, you'll save money listening than doing things twice... I've seen cars that could have been built with 10k from the get go end up getting built with 20k just because they had to redo the cage, suspension, etc... I can understand you on a budget, which that should be a concern to build it right as not to spend unnecesary budget money redoing stuff...

I have 6"x6" 1/8" plates on all the mounts other than the ones on the rear struts S&W RaceCar wanted the lateral braces mounted to the floor but I have that cut out so that's why I mounted it to the rear struts.

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[gabytech]

Good.. Still I advice you to redo the rear brace using steel plates...

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I have 6"x6" 1/8" plates on all the mounts other than the ones on the rear struts S&W RaceCar wanted the lateral braces mounted to the floor but I have that cut out so that's why I mounted it to the rear struts.

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I would not trust my life to that weld.

 

[gabytech]

I would not trust my life to that weld.

Me neither... Like I said to him before he started, don't have someone who isn't a chassis fabricator install the cage and do the chassis work. Safety is the main concern in a race car, and this guy is flat out ignoring safety by having someone weld the cage who is probably a fence welder. Just by looking at the pic I can tell whoever is welding the cage is NOT doing the proper procedures and steps done by chassis fabricators. Hes trying to save a measly $200-300 by having god knows who weld his cage instead of a chassis fabricator and welder.....

I guess this kid wont listen no matter what or who tells him otherwise. I said what I said already a few times, he still doesn't want to listen. Im going to kick back and wait for it, cause if the cage its going to get welded like that, I can imagine the rest of the custom parts including the suspension system is going to be designed and welded like... This car will not only look cheap built, it will also perform horribly as I can bet it wont launch in a straight line and will be all over the track...

 

[DSM's 4 life]

I welded the cage I did not outsource the work.
$375 for the cage shipped

 

[gabytech]

I welded the cage I did not outsource the work.

Mistake kid... I hope for your sake you outsource stuff you really dont have a clue about... I can tell you that cage was built (welded) wrong... I feel sorry for you, you going to end up with a cheap looking car and probably a race car that wont launch straight and be all over the track. Seen it to many times to know this is starting as one of those.. Its still early in the build to think about it kid, outsource what you dont have the skills and knowledge... Is there a way for you to listen or you really believe in your own mind you can do the custom fab ???