running my wideband

[heartmy2g]

so im wanting to install my new innovate lc1 wideband, but not sure where or how the best way to do it is. ive been told i can eliminate my rear o2 sensor and put it in place of that. Ive also been told its better to run it out of my o2 housing and move my front o2 sensor to the rear position. does any of this sound right? could really use some help. thanks

 

[jcarmichael]

I just hooked my mtx-l up last week, I have a 1g so only one o2 sensor in my car. I put mine in the front o2 sensor housing. You can make a copper heat sink to put between the o2 sensor and o2 housing, helps dissipate heat from the o2 sensor. If you have link you can eliminate the front o2 sensor, and use your wideband/link to simulate narrow band. If you go that route you just have to wire your analog 0 to 5v line off your wideband into your ecu front o2 wire.

ecuwiringinformation [ECMTuning - wiki]

this will give you the ecu wiring diagram.

innovatelc1orlm1install [ECMTuning - wiki]

v3narrowbandsim [ECMTuning - wiki]

 

[WES_393]

^ Ah, you beat me to it .

If you want to run the wideband at the fornt O2 location, you will need a tuning program to simulate the narrowband function of the front O2 sensor. You will also need to make a heat soak to protect the sensor from heat damage. I wouldn't advise putting the front O2 in the rear spot as there will be a delay between the ECU reading the signal and actual ECU fuel adjustments. Did your LC1 come with a weld-in bung? If not here's a link to one's for sale.

(about half way down the page)
STM: 90-99 DSM EXHAUST COMPONENTS

In my opinion, the best place to weld the bung is right after the flex section and before the cat (if you have one). Some run it further back, some run it in the downpipe. That's totally up to you and I would suggest researching the pro's and con's of each. Either way, it would be best to give the wideband it's own spot in the exhaust pipe and leave the front O2 sensor in it's place unless you having a tuning program.

 

[snowborder714]

If you want to run the wideband at the fornt O2 location, you will need a tuning program to simulate the narrowband function of the front O2 sensor.

Incorrect in regards to the Innovate products, at least. They come with 2 outputs - a wideband and narrowband sim output. He could run it up front and use the narrowband sim output fed into the front o2 pin to run as normal.

 

[WES_393]

Incorrect in regards to the Innovate products, at least. They come with 2 outputs - a wideband and narrowband sim output. He could run it up front and use the narrowband sim output fed into the front o2 pin to run as normal.

I didn't know that, sorry for the misinfo. Just another reason I need to dump my AEM UEGO .

 

[jcarmichael]

I didn't know that, sorry for the misinfo. Just another reason I need to dump my AEM UEGO .

that is quite alright, I just installed the mtx last week and should have known that as well and totally spaced. it having the wideband and narrowband lines.

 

[heartmy2g]

Incorrect in regards to the Innovate products, at least. They come with 2 outputs - a wideband and narrowband sim output. He could run it up front and use the narrowband sim output fed into the front o2 pin to run as normal.

so basically youre saying that my wideband setup should already have the wire output that i need to wire into the ecu to simulate narrowband? and that i can just eliminate the front o2 sensor and replace it with the wideband with the copper shield? and yes the kit came with a bung but i have no welding experience and dont know anyone either. i really need an aftermarket exhaust system with a bung already in it

 

[snowborder714]

You've got it. See here for installation instructions.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...21002-innovate-lc-1-installation-options.html

 

[jcarmichael]

so basically youre saying that my wideband setup should already have the wire output that i need to wire into the ecu to simulate narrowband? and that i can just eliminate the front o2 sensor and replace it with the wideband with the copper shield? and yes the kit came with a bung but i have no welding experience and dont know anyone either. i really need an aftermarket exhaust system with a bung already in it

yea he is saying, when you go to do the wiring you will hook your narrowband analog signal out of the wideband, into your front o2 sensor wire going to the ecu.

I believe that is correct, welding the bung further down stream would be safer. on it but if you go to far away you end up having the same problem, wes said would happen with running the front o2 to the rear o2 location it. lags and your car can over adjust because of the delayed reading.

the closer you get it to the engine the better the reading should be but the hotter the exhaust gases will be as well.

 

[heartmy2g]

thanks for all the help guys. i appriciate it. ill let you know how it goes=-)

 

[Force Fed 4g63]

Far and away the easiest thing to do is weld a new bung in the DP, a shop can do it for under $20. Needs to be far enough away from the turbo that it doesn't get damaged, usually just before the flex section on most DP's, but not too far away either. Also make sure you put it in at the right angle so there's no condensation. Do NOT put it in the stock o2 housing.

 

[jcarmichael]

Do NOT put it in the stock o2 housing.

By FAR, the best place to install the WBO2 sensor for accurate narrowband simulation is in the front O2 sensor location. This page outlines how one user installed his WBO2 in the front O2 location. When installed there, the WBO2 sensor can respond very quickly to the changes made by the ECU to A/F mixture. This is inline with assumptions in the ECU on how quickly it can expect to see a “response” as it adjusts short term fuel trim.

NOTE ABOUT HEAT: There's a rumor running around that WB sensors are not designed to take the heat that close to the engine. I honestly don't know if there's some truth to that or not, but it seems strange to me and doesn't jive with our empirical results. I've run the WB sensor in the front O2 location on my own car for years and have had no problems, even after putting it through a LOT of hard (and HOT) road course miles.

However, there are a number of situations where you may find it easier to install the WBO2 further downstream (in the rearO2 location on a 2G, for example). The problem is that the sensor responds more slowly to ECU mixture changes the further away from the engine it's placed. As a result, the ECU makes adjustments to the A/F mixture too quickly and “overshoots”, running really lean for a few seconds, then really rich, then lean, etc.

To correct for this, you need to change how the ECU adjusts the short term fuel trim. You do that in the STFTAndO2Feedback panel in Direct Access. The following illustrates a stock 2G DSM configuration.



v3narrowbandsim [ECMTuning - wiki]


I'm not saying this is accurate but a ot of people run there's in the front o2 housing. It has a possibility of causing an issue, but a lot of people have there's in that location with no issues.

 

[Force Fed 4g63]

I will take the manufacturer's word over it over some people on a forum who may or may not have had issues. If Innovate says not to put it that close to the turbo, I won't do it. Had it farther downstream with zero issues on multiple turbo cars. I prefer not to replace sensors very often. Besides, it's honestly the easiest way to do it as well as the most proper.