Running in circles!.. Engine build up

[talonsteve25]

Alright so over this winter im planning on building up my motor for learning experence and for power of course. My plan is refresh the bottom end then go with a ported, angled, camed ect head, intake mani, header, 20g, port everything, fmic, injecters, dsmlink some sort of fuel management, guages and some other stuff.

SO my question is what do you guys recomend? iv read taking out emmissions control and balance shaft delets stuff like that is there anything else i should change while my engines out that will be benifical in more relibality, simplicty and power?
thanks
steve

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Wow, that's a loaded question.

What are your goals power wise?
Are you wanting to stay with your 7-bolt?

If you want to stay with the 7-bolt I would put some forged pistons and a set of good rods under them. Get a good set of bearings and put it together right.

If you decide to go with a 6-bolt. You can go with the 2g piston 1g big rod combo and be able to support a lot of power. The big rods have done big things.

It really all comes down to what your goals are.

A FFOFH is good idea or an '90 air coold OFH.

 

[talonsteve25]

I know im sorry , my plan is 350-400 which i think is possible but i really want to do it on my stock 7 bolt.. Is that a good idea? I was considering a 6 bolt swap but i have an auto trans and i dont know if it just fits together the same as standerd, or if i would have to find a 6 bolt auto.

 

[vannaksgsx]

Read, read, read. Use the the Tech Guide, and the Upgrade Path.

It's not always about the bigger, and stronger aftermarket parts, but TUNING rather.

Do you know why you want a 6 Bolt? We talkin' 350 - 400 WHEEL horsepower?


Vannak

 

[Brutus]

I know im sorry , my plan is 350-400 which i think is possible but i really want to do it on my stock 7 bolt.. Is that a good idea? I was considering a 6 bolt swap but i have an auto trans and i dont know if it just fits together the same as standerd, or if i would have to find a 6 bolt auto.

Yes you can build that power level on a stock motor, but you did say you wanted to refresh the bottom end. If you are gonna tear the engine apart might as well put in the good stuff. It really wouldnt cost that much to build a forged bottom end and realisticly the stock parts werent designed to handle 400hp. They can handle it, but for how long? Reliability comes in to play.

Balance shaft deletes are pretty simple and make the motor a little less prone to catasrophic failure, but create a little vibration. Its a trade off.

I noticed you didnt list a fuel pump upgrade. You will need one for those power levels.

And since you have an auto tranny, and its nothing to drop it out with the engine; you might consider refreshing it. Maybe a translab shift kit and valve adjustment. Also, consider the torque converter and change the fluid and filter in your tranny.

Checking your driveshaft bushings and rear end gear oil couldnt hurt either.

If you are gonna have the car down for a while, might as well take your time and inspect all the problem areas now. Once you throw more power at it, you will find your weak parts quickly then. Better to get them early.

 

[talonsteve25]

Im looking for 350 to 400 off the motor.

I thought it would be smart to do a rebuild with forged parts but i am on a bit of a buget. Im guessing around 3 to 4 grand ill have to do everything. But i herd that the stock parts would hold up to 400 hp? Your right though how long would they hold. I did look at the upgrade paths to and did lots of reading but they didnt tell me everthing.

Oh and i was planning on sending the trans in and getting it done up to if it was in buget.

 

[dsm-onster]

I agree that forged internals are WAY overkill with this goal. A set of 6bolt rods and the machine work to get them to fit iss the MOST I would do.

If the 7bolt rods can tolerate 400whp, they can tolerate 400whp. Thery either bend or they don't. Reliability is not an issue if they don't bend after the first 400whp pull. The weak link is the rod bolts. And rodbolts break when you rev much over the stock rev limit. The bearings of a 7bolt have a larger area, thus are less prone to shear the oil film at high power and rpms. They come with a crank girdle with prevents jump roping the crank at high rpms, which is not needed at these power levels anyway. The stock rings are good for 700+ whp, the block and crank itself over 1000 whp. There is no real reliability issue with 7bolt motors at their limit of what their rods can tolerate. The only problem is their small non-reusable headbolts vs. the beefier reusable 6bolt head bolts. Purchase some arp head studs and have at it with a fel-pro composite headgasket. You'll be fine.

If compression is good with your stock bottem end, I wouldn't do a thing to it. Just get some arp headbolts and go with it. That will save you alot of money. There are too many daily driven 7bolt 4g63 cars out there with 400+ whp for you to worry about it. Save your money for a transmission, and supporting mods (turbo, cams, fuel and fuel control, FMIC).

 

[talonsteve25]

Over all on these forums it seems like half leave the stock parts and half go foraged, but since im on a buget ill chance it sticking with the stock bottom end i guess. Im not planning to go over 7 k but i do need new rings and rod bearings as i took it all out to clean the pistons up. I am going to get arp studs for sure but my main concern was what to do with the bottom end. Theres to much bias from reading on this site i keep coming up with 50/50 answers,( some say take bs out some say dont) .

So what i gather from reading and re reading is leave bottem end alone leave balance shafts in and just go with it?

 

[vannaksgsx]

So what i gather from reading and re reading is leave bottem end alone leave balance shafts in and just go with it?

If you're trying to achieve 400hp, I would go with forged pistons, and 1G Big Rods - very cost effective, and not overkill for your goal.

I actually think the majority of us dsmers remove the balance shafts. Crank walk could happen to any engine, but it has been experienced much more with the 7 bolt blocks. When your balane shafts are removed, you'll feel a little more vibration - that's the trade off. Normally, I don't like to mess with the design and engineering of a car- but not everything is flawless.

 

[vannaksgsx]

If compression is good with your stock bottem end, I wouldn't do a thing to it. Just get some arp headbolts and go with it. That will save you alot of money. There are too many daily driven 7bolt 4g63 cars out there with 400+ whp for you to worry about it. Save your money for a transmission, and supporting mods (turbo, cams, fuel and fuel control, FMIC).

I agree with this as well.

 

[2slow4now]

If you went with forged pistons you could delete the 7 bolt oil squirters and you would get more oil to your thrust bearing to help with the possibility of crankwalk. Check out magnus motorsports Magnus Motorsports - Crankwalk Tech some good research thats worth looking at. Wish my 95 talon was AWD.