Results when the oil level is over filled?

[96gstdsm]

OK well I had asked this in my other thread pertaining to my 6 bolt swap and lots of blue smoke etc.
I got my oil changed today after about 100 miles on my break in for my new block and turbo. When I got home I noticed my exhaust was smoking alot. Blue smoke. I then popped the hood and I could see oil bubbling out between the exhaust manifold and the head. I wiped it down and checked again and it was definitely coming from there. Could see it oozing out from every bolt hole. Mostly the far most left and right sides of the exhaust manifold though. I jacked the car up and when running you could see oil just dripping off the car and to the ground. Now I didn't get so far as to really check to see if there were other leaks underneath the car, but looked as if there might be.
I later checked the oil level and it seemed to be very high. I replaced my dip stick some time back since it broke, and bought an oem replacement one. So I am assuming it measures the same.
On the receipt from the oil change it showed that they put in 4.7 quarts which is normal for an oil and filter change.
I checked the oil level and it is way over the second notch. It is about the same amount over the second notch as the second notch is from the first notch.

Could this be effecting my car negatively? Could this cause oil to get there and work it's way out the exhaust manifold? Would this cause the car to blow smoke out the exhaust pipe?

 

[Black91TSiAWD]

In most oil change stations for some reason they have that a 4G63 holds between 4.5/4.9 qts. I dont know where they get there info from but 4.3qts is what it takes.QUOTE]


Actually a 4g63t holds 4.8 quarts, per the owners manual.

 

[kenamond]

This is rediculous. Drain your oil, add 4 quarts, check the dipstick and add the necessary amount to get to the top notch. As I recall, it is one quart between the bottom and top notch, but I'm not positive. Add oil 1/2 a quart at a time checking the dipstick each time. Then you'll have a good feel for how much oil is needed to raise the level on the stick.

If your ex. mani. wasn't properly torqued to the head, you'll be leaking oil from the top or bottom left stud (forget exactly which one). I'd even suggest pulling the ex. mani. from the head to see if you see wet oil in any of the exhaust ports. I don't know why it would leak from the right side of the mani.

An oil change is cheap, but whatever is wrong could cost you a lot more. Do it yourself, and you'll know for sure how much oil it took. If the oil level was the only problem, you should burn off all of the old oil and stop burning. If not, you have other problems. At a minimum, your mani isn't sealed well with your head, and that'll decrease turbo performance. That's why I think you should look into both problems.

And clamping your dipstick tube so that it doesn't pop is a hack that hides a real issue. If your dipstick is popping (doesn't sound like it is), it means you have a PCV issue. Either the VC breather is blocked, the PCV valve is shot, or you have big leaks past valves or rings that are pressurizing the crankcase more than the VC breather can vent. A boost leak test would tell you about the PCV valve.

But for heaven's sake, change your oil before you do anything else.

 

[Talesin]

Running a little overfull isn't going to hurt the engine. The only time it gets to be a problem is when it's DRAMATICALLY overfilled to the point where the oil is being aerated by the crankshaft. Air foamed oil = hotter oil + worse lubrication = more stress on the engine = eventual early failure.

Your car uses an oil pump to move the oil through the engine and bring it up to pressure. It doesn't pressurize the oil in the oil pan (aside from any blowby or PCV operation), which just acts as a sump. Having some extra oil will not blow out seals, though it might cause an already-weak oil pan gasket seal to leak, which is most likely where that myth started. The oil pump uses a pickup to suck oil out of the pan. It's not pushed up through the pickup (atmospheric pressure and how vacuum actually 'pulls' things up tubes aside), it's pulled up by the pump.

I thought the same thing when my old 1.5L Mirage started to leak, that the quick-stop lube shop adding extra oil was what caused it. Did research as I was going to try and get them to pay for a new engine, and found out that I didn't have a leg to stand on, unless they'd put in four or five extra quarts (which they didn't), and even then the leaks wouldn't be exactly provable as their fault, only total engine failure.

 

[96gstdsm]

This is rediculous. Drain your oil, add 4 quarts, check the dipstick and add the necessary amount to get to the top notch. As I recall, it is one quart between the bottom and top notch, but I'm not positive. Add oil 1/2 a quart at a time checking the dipstick each time. Then you'll have a good feel for how much oil is needed to raise the level on the stick.

If your ex. mani. wasn't properly torqued to the head, you'll be leaking oil from the top or bottom left stud (forget exactly which one). I'd even suggest pulling the ex. mani. from the head to see if you see wet oil in any of the exhaust ports. I don't know why it would leak from the right side of the mani.

An oil change is cheap, but whatever is wrong could cost you a lot more. Do it yourself, and you'll know for sure how much oil it took. If the oil level was the only problem, you should burn off all of the old oil and stop burning. If not, you have other problems. At a minimum, your mani isn't sealed well with your head, and that'll decrease turbo performance. That's why I think you should look into both problems.

And clamping your dipstick tube so that it doesn't pop is a hack that hides a real issue. If your dipstick is popping (doesn't sound like it is), it means you have a PCV issue. Either the VC breather is blocked, the PCV valve is shot, or you have big leaks past valves or rings that are pressurizing the crankcase more than the VC breather can vent. A boost leak test would tell you about the PCV valve.

But for heaven's sake, change your oil before you do anything else.

ok stupid question. When pulling the exhaust manifold from the head, since some of the bolts are drilled into oil galleys, is it going to start leaking oil right out the hole when I unbolt it? Oil is also coming up from in between every runner on the manifold. Could oil seep from the left bolt holes and makes it's way in and then seep out again from everywhere? Is that a highly unlikely circumstance? What can I check in the turbo, to see if that is the culprit? (already took the intake off, and no oil or shaft play)

Oh and yes I already drained the excess oil!

 

[Turboeagletalon]

This is rediculous. Drain your oil, add 4 quarts, check the dipstick and add the necessary amount to get to the top notch. As I recall, it is one quart between the bottom and top notch, but I'm not positive. Add oil 1/2 a quart at a time checking the dipstick each time. Then you'll have a good feel for how much oil is needed to raise the level on the stick.

If your ex. mani. wasn't properly torqued to the head, you'll be leaking oil from the top or bottom left stud (forget exactly which one). I'd even suggest pulling the ex. mani. from the head to see if you see wet oil in any of the exhaust ports. I don't know why it would leak from the right side of the mani.

An oil change is cheap, but whatever is wrong could cost you a lot more. Do it yourself, and you'll know for sure how much oil it took. If the oil level was the only problem, you should burn off all of the old oil and stop burning. If not, you have other problems. At a minimum, your mani isn't sealed well with your head, and that'll decrease turbo performance. That's why I think you should look into both problems.

And clamping your dipstick tube so that it doesn't pop is a hack that hides a real issue. If your dipstick is popping (doesn't sound like it is), it means you have a PCV issue. Either the VC breather is blocked, the PCV valve is shot, or you have big leaks past valves or rings that are pressurizing the crankcase more than the VC breather can vent. A boost leak test would tell you about the PCV valve.

But for heaven's sake, change your oil before you do anything else.

here, here, i think your over thinking the problem way to mutch.
Listen the reason i run these cars. As fare as a person who builds these motors. day to day.
is your of there simplisity. When you starts adding theorys into just basic problem solving. Your never going to get anyware.

Ok .2 of a quart is NOT GOING TO HURT YOUR MOTOR. Just check all your torques on your studds and try to get atleast 500 miles on your fresh motor. (if you built it right to begin with. I don't no why your scared)

it's just a danm peice of metal. don't forget that

 

[snox135]

Oh and also what is a standard price for a shop to charge to do a compression test? They have it there and might as well have them do when when their checking everything else out, but they want like 70 bucks. Seems pretty high.

Did you pay $70 to have your compression test done? You can buy a cheap tester for $30.

 

[Talesin]

Can buy a decent tester for $50, or a good one for about $100. $70 for a compression test is just ludicrous. Takes five minutes tops if the engine's already warmed up.

 

[nightspeed87]

Normally wet exhaust ports could be bad valve stems seals. In your case if it was anything related to that it couldve been something not sealing/ or seatings correctly.

 

[96gstdsm]

OK well I did have a compression test done there, don't really care about what it costs right now, since I am just pretty frustrated already about it since I just spent like 6 grand already. I got it leak down tested also, but they said they didn't find anything else out by doing that. Was only 70 for compression, leak down and dye testing the oil to find the leak.
How much are the bolts holding the exhaust manifold supposed to be torqued down? As tight as you can?
When valve stem seals go, is it usually an all of a sudden occurance? Seams weird to happen all of a sudden like this from one minute to the next. Want to make sure it's not something easy, before I ship my car back down a couple hours away for the installer to take a look.

 

[96gstdsm]

Well just double checked myself and re changed the oil again, so it is now at just below the second notch on the dipstick. It did not blow much smoke at first but then got worse as it warmed up and after I took it for a quick spin around the block. It still leaked oil out the exhaust manifold as well. So overfilled with oil is not the current problem. Maybe it caused something to start leaking but the level is fine now and still same outcome. It had been filled originally overfilled by 1 quart. Is that enough to blow some seals out or anything that would cause it to leak into the exhaust manifold area?

 

[kenamond]

The stud that threads into an oil passage is way too high for oil to reach when the motor is off. When the motor is off, the oil pan holds all of the oil. Someone might shed some light as to whether this is a high pressure oil passage or a return passage. You could also probably find it in a search.

My Haynes manual lists the torque spec on the ex. mani. to head studs/nuts at 17lb-ft. Don't overtighten them, or you might strip out the head (it's aluminum) or snap a stud off in the head. You can't get a torque wrench on the nuts under the mani. I torque the top one up and see how hard it is to budge the nut with a wrench, then go by feel on the lower nuts. If oil is not coming from an oil passage, you're getting oil into the combustion chamber somehow, and I'd worry a bit more about that.

I still don't understand why oil would be leaking from the right side of the motor. Maybe there's another stud in an oil passage on that end, but I've not heard of it.

If you don't see oil in the LICP (you are checking the compressor output, not inlet, right?), then the turbo can't be producing the oil in your exhaust manifold. If the compressor seal is leaking, you can pump a lot of oil through the motor.

 

[nightspeed87]

Hmm strange because I was dealing with smoking issues as well that perplexed me.
I went thru all the loops on figuring out why I was burning oil on a rapid rate under decelleration, and under boost. I put a new turbo, the motor had only 4k on the bottom end with perfect compression and only took 4 cranks for the compression to build all the way to 155 on 1g pistons, the 2nd crank compression was already at 120 to show how fast I got compression. I broke the engine in on the motoman technique. And I also ported my relief valve to lower my oil pressure due to the balance shafts removed, and even cleaned the turbo drain return line,
in addition to putting a brand new pcv valve and it still smoked.
No oil ever in the intercooler but i did recall seeing a little bit on the back of the exhaust manifold gasket so I automattically assumed it was valve stem seals or valve guides.. And im probably going to get it fixed soon so far a shop i take my car to said it was definitly in the head, perhaps something not seating correctly. Would anyone like to take a stab at my situation ( perhaps relating to the ops >? since a lot of the conditions are similar)

 

[96gstdsm]

ok well correction to my previous posts. Seems the smoke is actually white. Brought it to the guy who installed everything for me and he said the smoke is definitely white. Seems blue at first to me but I guess not. What does it sound like it is then? Brand new mitsubishi mls headgasket. The guy said maybe the block was not flat? What are the odds of that? Was a complete rebuilt short block from overbore.com. When he installed it I told him to make sure the head was flat, he said it was and never needed to resurface it. With the compression numbers being pretty decent, what does it sound like it is? I know it is leaking oil and probably burning some as that is probably why I thought it was blue smoke since a little was mixed in. And there is lots of oil around the exhaust manifold. What could cause oil to get there as well as provide white smoke? The guy also said the block could be cracked and cause that? make any sense? If it was compression tested before it left the shop where it was built could the block be cracked and still provide good compression numbers?
Please forgive any little spelling mistakes I may have made, 4 in the morning where I am and half asleep.

 

[nightspeed87]

Did you do a leak down test, and is it smoking all the time or under certain times.
Also is it loosing coolant fast?

 

[96gstdsm]

Did you do a leak down test, and is it smoking all the time or under certain times.
Also is it loosing coolant fast?

Ok well I had the shop I brought it to recently to see if they could tell why it was smoking. They said they did a leak down test and it didn't show anything. I have not noticed the coolant level going down at all, but I have only driven it about 150 miles since new engine and all.
I is smoking usually not right at startup, but when it warms up it get worse. If I keep it steady at a certain rpm level it wont smoke as much, but if I back off the throttle after being higher up it will smoke or then when I tap it it will smoke. Usually once warm it will smoke a lot more and more constant. I don't have the car with me now, brought it back to the shop who did the install and all, but I have a feeling they might try to say it is not something that was their fault. The last time I started it up though, I did not notice smoke at all at the beginning. The day before after having it driving for a while it was really billowing smoke out the back

 

[nightspeed87]

And your oil level doesnt go down?

 

[96gstdsm]

And your oil level doesnt go down?

Well I'm sure it does, didn't have much time to check it, but it was leaking plenty of oil from the exhaust manifold, so I'm sure it is going down. When the car was jacked up I could see it dripping out from under the engine. There as definitely also an exhaust leak some place it was dripping oil that got worse, between the exhaust manifold and the head.
Also when the car was smoking I could see some vapor coming out, but that is normal right? Just like condensation. I the oil didn't seem really milky looking, but did seem pretty damn thin. Was non synthetic 5w30 I believe.

 

[boostnbuds]

freakin expensive chunk of metal no? ask the dude who built your motor what oil he uses then look at your receit and see what they put in it...

 

[96gstdsm]

Anyone have any suggestions as to the most likely cause of the white smoke etc? Haven't been able to get a hold of the shop for a few days, hopefully will today, but like for your opinions on here.

 

[kenamond]

Anyone have any suggestions as to the most likely cause of the white smoke etc? Haven't been able to get a hold of the shop for a few days, hopefully will today, but like for your opinions on here.

Smell it and make sure you know it's coolant vs. oil. Coolant smells sweet. I'm sure you know what burning oil smells like. If not, burn some on a stove (a drop right on an electric burner, or smear some on the bottom of a spoon and hold it over gas burner (holding spoon with pot holder). Use your imagination and burn some of each and compare it to what's coming out of your exhaust.

 

[SFRacingGST]

Okay heres what you do:
1: Do an oil change yourself! make sure the level is right after running it for 20 sec and letting it sit.
2: Drive it, see if problem still exists.
3: Check oil level again after 20 miles or so. (If high again, could very well be a head gasket issue)

If your oil level okay, and your still leaking from you mani, i would take the mani off since youo had a boost leak also, and i would tighten all the studs (maybe ones is very loose that goes into an oil passage)

After tightening all the studs (maybe using alittle thread sealer on the oil ones), get a new gasket and put you mani back on.

DO A BOOST LEAK TEST BEFORE STARTING!

After not leaks are confirmed, drive around and check symptoms again. If you still have blue smoke i would look into your turbo getting to much oil or again a bad head gasket. My head gasket didn't seat correctly and i am gettting water in the oil jackets, its very possible the same is happening to you if you oil level is high again...

Anyways, screw the free car wash that seemed to destroy your side skirt, and do it yourself. Learn how to do things correctly fisrt, and then do them yourself correctly, its the only way to get things done right.

 

[nightspeed87]

Maybe your valve stem seals are like non existent in your head or something causing it to belch oil all inside your exhaust manifold causing it to smoke when the exhaust heats up and also push past the gasket .

 

[96gstdsm]

Update:
OK well I was told buy the shop I got all the work done at that it is without a doubt white smoke. I am leaking coolant and water out the exhaust manifold. Seems like oil also, but not positive. Even though I believe the dye test showed it coming from there a little also. The place seems to think it is the head gasket even though some things don't add up. I know they are a good shop and definitely know their dsm's(dogboxracing). They compression tested it and it came with about 180 across all cylinders. The leak down test he said also was pretty good, not perfect but good. Spark plugs also looked pretty good. Looked like it might have run a little rich, but no signs of running lean. I have ecu+ installed but all zero'd out, and still stock injectors for now. I have a 190 pump rewired. The head studs were re torqued and were fine.(ARP) He said that the good compression numbers and all just don't really make much sense if it is a head gasket or cracked head or something. Seemed to have checked with a bunch of other dsm people around him and everyone seems kinda stumped.
He seems to be saying that it can't really be his fault since it was fine when I left an a head gasket would fail right away if it was not torqued correctly or something. Happened about 120 miles later. I am having him take the head off for now and since if he can find out what is going on. Anyone have any other suggestions? At this point I just want it back so badly I'll do anything to get it running! Is there something that could have been done during installation to cause this?
He said that without a doubt water and coolant is getting into the head and into the runners and exhaust manifold. It is not coming from the turbo. Any more input or ideas I would really appreciate. Thanks.

 

[Turboeagletalon]

go with a cometic head gasket. totaly worth it. plus torque your head to like 100-110 ftlb and make shre you have arp head studs

 

[kenamond]

Can anyone think of a way for the coolant pumping through the throttle body to leak into the IM?