[RESOLVED] Dying turbo... can it be bypassed?

[jumpfroggy]

I've read a few threads, and it sounds like I have a dying/dead turbo.

I bought my car used a while ago (6 months or so), a 95 TSI AWD in very good shape (not great, but very good) almost completely stock (minus the wheels and a few cell phone mounts). On the drive home, the person behind me said they could see a puff of bluish/grayish smoke when I hit the boost. Uh oh, blown turbo seals I thought. It didn't concern me too much, as I'd planned on going 16g soon enough.

However, it's in the 20's here now and I've been trying to wait out the winter. The turbo has gotten worse, and I've started getting hesitations when I get on the boost (like running little pieces of the rumble strips on the side of the road). Since that's started happening, I've started driving without boost. However, I can now faintly hear my turbo in what sounds like hitting the housing. Not on idle, not while accelerating, but only when cruising just even... sounds like a cyclic slight scrape, or a small metal clicking sound.

I'm pretty sure the turbo has gone out at this point. Next chance I get, I'll check the shaft play. Is there a simple way to bypass the turbo just to stay off boost? I want to replace the turbo with a 16g, but I really don't want to do it in cold weather if I can help it. My first guess is to force the wastegate to be always open, maybe by disconnecting the actuator. I may have this backwards... do I need to force it open with the actuator?

Obviously I won't do anything without knowing the consequences, but I was wondering if any of you had any ideas short of full turbo replacement. I may have to suck it up and go that route (and buy a lot of hand warmers), but it'd be nice to just by pass the turbo until spring arrives.

Thanks all, any comments are appreciated.

 

[tristanmb81]

i would invest on a new turbo than risking your engine.

 

[4G63_Attack]

Yes! It sounds like you got a paper weight as a turbo. if you have a boost controller you and turn down the boost or like you said just keep it off boost. then you should be find. but you should check your oil since its leaking oil in the turbo.

 

[jumpfroggy]

Yes! It sounds like you got a paper weight as a turbo. if you have a boost controller you and turn down the boost or like you said just keep it off boost. then you should be find. but you should check your oil since its leaking oil in the turbo.

I'm definitely keeping an eye on the oil, esp after I left the gas cap off for a small ride and then couldn't figure out why some oil was spilling on the engine cover . Yes, I'm a moron.

I'd like to find a way to bypass the turbo since I imagine the turbo replacement will cause significant hours and downtime. If I knew it'd be a simple one day job (like a full 8 hour saturday), then sure I'd do it. But if it's more then two days like that, I don't think I can spare the time. And no matter how simple the job is, it only takes one broken/stuck bolt or missing part to slow me down every time. I seem to be a magnet for that kind of stuff.

PS. No boost controller. I need the opposite; a boost minimizer. I need something to unhook, dial down, etc that will give me 0 boost. Is there a simple mod like that?

 

[DontStartModdin]

I'm definitely keeping an eye on the oil, esp after I left the gas cap off for a small ride and then couldn't figure out why some oil was spilling on the engine cover . Yes, I'm a moron.

Do you mean oil cap? You should always have the oil cap on while driving. Even if it's parked and your working on it, you should at least have something covering it.

I'd like to find a way to bypass the turbo since I imagine the turbo replacement will cause significant hours and downtime. If I knew it'd be a simple one day job (like a full 8 hour saturday), then sure I'd do it. But if it's more then two days like that, I don't think I can spare the time. And no matter how simple the job is, it only takes one broken/stuck bolt or missing part to slow me down every time. I seem to be a magnet for that kind of stuff.

There's no way to bypass the turbo.

To replace it would take no more than a few hours if you know what your doing. Just make sure you have some crush washers, banjo bolts, return/feed line, etc, handy if yours are damaged.

PS. No boost controller. I need the opposite; a boost minimizer. I need something to unhook, dial down, etc that will give me 0 boost. Is there a simple mod like that?

No way to run 0 boost.

BUY A NEW TURBO!!!!

P.S. I have an excellent condition 14b with less than 10k on rebuild if interested.

 

[Twistaye]

Instead of doing all the work to try and run no boost, why not just go ahead and fix the problem so you don't have anything to worry about? I know what you mean about the cold weather though, I'm over here in Germany and I'm going to be working on my car over here when it gets here. Gogo hot cocoa

 

[tlikethedrink]

i would go for a 14b as a replacment/upgrade. its a cheap fix now and you can make good numbers on it while you build up the rest of your car.

 

[jumpfroggy]

If I do decide to do turbo replacement, I'd go evo3 16g. I've got the rest of the parts sitting in boxes... 720cc injectors, DSMlink, AFPR, 2g install kit. Missing fuel pump, O2 + downpipe + exhaust, boost gauge, and turbo. Right now I'm just trying to avoid tackling those exhaust bolts, I just have it in my head that they'll get stuck and I'll be tearing my hair out trying to remove stuck bolts, studs, etc. How long did it take people to do their 16g install? What problems did you run into?

 

[Gstclipse69]

If you have the right parts and know the step by step, it shouldnt take more than 5-6 hours. The way I go about pulling the turbo is first to drain the oil and coolant. Unbolt the radiator and intake and move it out of the way. Remove your lower intercooler pipe, then the o2 housing ( four pesky bolts one difficult to get to) Then unbolt the oil feed and return lines as well as the coolant lines. Then all you have left is the four turbo bolts on top. If you have a 2g install kit then you should have a j-pipe, oil feed line with washers, and washers for the return line. Only other thing you might want to opt for is new turbo bolts. Oem ones arent that expensive, ss ones look sweet though.

 

[jumpfroggy]

Alright, you guys have convinced me... I'll just replace the darn thing. I have a "2G install kit", minus the J pipe so I'll need to get one of those. Is there a 16g install guide that lists everything you'll need (including all the crush washers, bolts, etc)? I just hate getting caught half way through without one piece that I need.

 

[wishnfor4g63T]

Hey, i would hate doing the 16g install in the cold but if i had to i would. Seems you have everything to make the turbo upgrade a good one but maybe you should hold off on the rest and get the turbo over with.

Me and my friend did the turbo install on my car that took 2 half days. (we started at 5 pm on friday and again half saturday). It was fun! we had no idea what we were doing but had the Vfaq.com 16g install guide in hand. It was fairly simple just tedious. Get your friend or anyone who is a lil car crazy and go at it. Btw the bolts aren't to bad if you have a big enough cheater bar

 

[Mr Peepers]

Unhooking the wastegate arm from the flapper will slow the turbo down a good bit, but you still should still baby it around and drive it as little as possible. Replace it ASAP.

 

[jumpfroggy]

Unhooking the wastegate arm from the flapper will slow the turbo down a good bit, but you still should still baby it around and drive it as little as possible. Replace it ASAP.

I'm babying it right now as I get my parts together for the 16g install. Does other actuator push the flapper closed, or push it open? If it pushes the flapper closed, then unhooking it would leave the flapper open, bypassing the turbo as much as possible. If it pushes the flapper open, then unhooking it would leave it closed all the time, ie. boost creep. I'm just not sure which it is, and if my logic is completely out of touch here too. Thanks.

Hey, i would hate doing the 16g install in the cold but if i had to i would. Seems you have everything to make the turbo upgrade a good one but maybe you should hold off on the rest and get the turbo over with.

Me and my friend did the turbo install on my car that took 2 half days. (we started at 5 pm on friday and again half saturday). It was fun! we had no idea what we were doing but had the Vfaq.com 16g install guide in hand. It was fairly simple just tedious. Get your friend or anyone who is a lil car crazy and go at it. Btw the bolts aren't to bad if you have a big enough cheater bar

Thanks for the anecdote, it's encouraging to hear people can get the install done quickly. I have the 2g install kit, but I'm not sure if it's complete (more on that later). I'm going to only replace the turbo and wait on the rest; I don't want to attempt too much at once, and I'm fine with running the turbo at half its potential till I have time later to tune.

 

[webconnect]

About running the 4g63 without a turbo. I did it just for grins (just uncoupled the piping) and it runs pig rich, (expected) but the engine does not even have power to get above 35-40mph. I thought it would just be like a 420a in power, but no sir. Yea I was just really bored.

 

[TurboTJ]

After rebuilding my engine, I kept it off boost on the stock turbo for the first 500 miles. I pulled the pin in the wastegate rod, and slid the arm off. I could easily go 80 MPH up hills and had plenty of power with no boost. Just something that you could try to delay the inevitable.

 

[kenamond]

The wastegate in the turbine housing is just a disk (we call it a flapper) on a hinge. If you disconnect the WGA arm from the lever, the flapper will be free to move. The backpressure in the turbine housing upwind of the turbine wheel will move the flapper out of the way no problem, and you'll get no appreciable boost. When you disconnect the arm from the lever, check that the lever turns easily. If it does, you're essentially eliminating boost. This is a simple fix for now. You should try this and get a buddy to follow you at night to see if your oil leak goes away or is acceptably small.

If all goes well, you could swap out the turbo in an 8-hour day. But Murphy's Law is still a concern. If you break off the head of a turbo-mani bolt or O2-turbo bolt, you could be delayed quite a bit.

If you do decide to upgrade the turbo, find a good friend with a garage, start after work on a Friday, and chug through it until you finish or need a machine shop to help with "glitches" in your plan. Do your homework first and make sure you have everything you need including tools.

Start out with the actuator arm. That might buy you some time to do your homework. Don't rush into a decision about a turbo. Think about what you want to do with the car, then decide on a turbo.

When I upgraded my turbo (my T25 died magnificently), I had an empty 2-car garage and a backup car to get me to/from work. I was delayed weeks because the wrong parts were shipped (and the wrong parts were shipped the 2nd time, too). I was in no rush, but I ended up changing numerous parts while the car was on jackstands. If you have that luxury, go hog-wild and do more with your car while you're at it.

Good luck, and welcome to the world of dirty fingernails and scarred knuckles.

 

[mitch26753]

I'm definitely keeping an eye on the oil, esp after I left the gas cap off for a small ride and then couldn't figure out why some oil was spilling on the engine cover . Yes, I'm a moron.

I'd like to find a way to bypass the turbo since I imagine the turbo replacement will cause significant hours and downtime. If I knew it'd be a simple one day job (like a full 8 hour saturday), then sure I'd do it. But if it's more then two days like that, I don't think I can spare the time. And no matter how simple the job is, it only takes one broken/stuck bolt or missing part to slow me down every time. I seem to be a magnet for that kind of stuff.

PS. No boost controller. I need the opposite; a boost minimizer. I need something to unhook, dial down, etc that will give me 0 boost. Is there a simple mod like that?

does this guy know anything? THis is possbily the worst thread i have seen in awhile. Just get a cheap rebuild kit it will take you 15 minutes to rebuild that turbo and about the same to put it back on. Better yet, just buy that 16g you want and be done with it. This car came turbo from factory and it would be a huge pain i nthe ass to convert it back. the ecu is not meant for a n/a application number 1!

 

[blkwidow]

He's just looking for something temp. Maybe he doesn't have the time, parts or both right now. Disconnecting the WGA would be an easy band-aid for now. I had to do the exact same thing. This was when my car was my only DD. It's not like he has to do alot of work to disconnect a bad turbo from spooling, he doesn't have to convert anything.

 

[mitch26753]

yeah your right maybe he wants a quick fix....a quick cheap fix is rebuilding the turbo! The car with the turbo not boosting is not going to run right at all. Its going to dump so much fuel to it and run so rich that he will be lucky to run over 40 mph! now i mean if he shifts before 2k everytime then he mights be alright. I could see if this was a 1000 dollar part of something but you can rebuild these dsm turbos for very cheap. If you have basic mechanical knowledge then you can do it. I dont mean to sound like a ass, but instead of waisting the money that you are probably going to get for horiable gas mileage, rebuild the turbo!I think alot of people can vouch for me here that rebuilding that turbo with a basic rebuild kit is by far the better route and probably cheaper in the long run.

 

[blkwidow]

Dude I totally get what you are saying. I am in noway saying he should drive like this for weeks. I'm just saying that if he has to drive his car then this could be a temp fix for maybe a week until he fixes the real problem whether it be him rebuilding or replacing. Like I said I had to do the same thing. I had no problem getting up to speed limit. Sure my mpg dropped, but I only needed to do it for a few days.

 

[mitch26753]

yeah i understand what your saying. i dont think hes talking about just doing this for a few days though.

 

[Mr Peepers]

yeah your right maybe he wants a quick fix....a quick cheap fix is rebuilding the turbo! The car with the turbo not boosting is not going to run right at all. Its going to dump so much fuel to it and run so rich that he will be lucky to run over 40 mph! now i mean if he shifts before 2k everytime then he mights be alright. I could see if this was a 1000 dollar part of something but you can rebuild these dsm turbos for very cheap. If you have basic mechanical knowledge then you can do it. I dont mean to sound like a ass, but instead of waisting the money that you are probably going to get for horiable gas mileage, rebuild the turbo!I think alot of people can vouch for me here that rebuilding that turbo with a basic rebuild kit is by far the better route and probably cheaper in the long run.

It will run fine. You know you can get up past 40mph without boosting right?

The reason it feels slower than a n/t is that it's a 8.5:1 compression motor and has WOT fuel maps for a turbo car(ie ~10:1 afr). You will get just the same gas mileage as if you were driving around not under boost. If you go WOT all the time then of course mileage will suck, just as it will with boost except you won't be moving as quick. Shift at whatever rpm you want, you just won't get out of vacuum(you may still boost creep though at higher revs).

Do not just bypass the compressor of the turbo though. It would be very easy to overspin the turbo with no load or boost control. Unhooking the flapper arm is the best quick fix solution.

 

[kenamond]

yeah your right maybe he wants a quick fix....a quick cheap fix is rebuilding the turbo! The car with the turbo not boosting is not going to run right at all. Its going to dump so much fuel to it and run so rich that he will be lucky to run over 40 mph! now i mean if he shifts before 2k everytime then he mights be alright. I could see if this was a 1000 dollar part of something but you can rebuild these dsm turbos for very cheap. If you have basic mechanical knowledge then you can do it. I dont mean to sound like a ass, but instead of waisting the money that you are probably going to get for horiable gas mileage, rebuild the turbo!I think alot of people can vouch for me here that rebuilding that turbo with a basic rebuild kit is by far the better route and probably cheaper in the long run.

Okay, I'm seeing more than one person who could use a bit of education here.

If all goes well and he'd done it before, he could drop the turbo in an hour. The rebuild, if he has the tools to pull the turbo apart, would be another hour or more for someone who hadn't done it before. Then he has to reinstall the turbo which will be another hour. Then you're left with a stock turbo for the same time (more) as if you upgraded).

The wastegate flapper disconnect is truly 15 minutes.

As far as needing a new ECU and such is complete horseshit. The ECU doesn't care if the turbo is boosting 2psi or 15psi. The MAS measures airflow, the CAS/CPS measures RPM, and the ECU adds the correct fuel based on that airflow reading and RPM. Low boost will not make you run rich.

With all that's been said (including the unnecessary insults), the OP should consider what he wants to do given his own situation in terms of needing the car, having cash for a turbo, tools for installation/rebuild, etc.

 

[UofACATS]

disconnect the WGA arm from the lever, ..and you'll get no appreciable boost.

This is your answer.

 

[webconnect]

It would run like a n/a if it were fueled like a n/a

By fueled do you mean somehow getting a computer to give the injects the same map as a 420a? I suppose it would be better, but with less power for sure. But in this experience the car barely moved.

I took the car for about a 4 mile trek around a lake, and it was pig rich. At a stop, it would idle bad for a few seconds, and then the computer would correct the lumping. Then under acceleration, (if you want to call it that), it would smoke a little black smoke. And the car pretty much got 2 mpg.