[RESOLVED] Clutch Pedal Mushy and hard to get into 1st

[fertez_turbo]

I got about 1500 miles on my motor rebuild with stock tranny. ACT 2100 clutch and fidanza flywheel. Just like the title says my clutch pedal has a little play at the very top and its been getting harder and harder to get into first gear. If I go into second and then first its easy, but now its even getting a little hard to get into 2nd from neutral. Also reverse almost always grinds. Clutch fluid level is good, and I bled the clutch line today just hoping it would help and it still feels the same. I'm thinking maybe clutch master/slave cylinder going out? I did a little searching but didn't find anything too current or anyone with exact same problem that also had a resolution. What can I check next next to see what the problem is? Clutch pedal is not as stiff as it used to be. Used to engage right off the floor now there is some play. Thanks guys!

 

[iluvmy4g63]

2-g were know to wear out on the clutch pivot under the dash.(just a spot to check) i would get new slave cly and ss clutch line. and since you have after market clutch try extra long slave cly rod. thats what my buddy's 2-g needed.
[Never use an extended slave pushrod.]

 

[1gDSM4g63]

You probably need a new slaw cylinder or the transmission synchros are going out.

 

[fertez_turbo]

2-g were know to wareout on the clutch pivet under the dash.(just a spot to check) i would get new slave cly and ss clutch line. and sence you have after market clutch try extra long slave cly rod. thats what my buddy's 2-g needed.

I already have a SS clutch line, forgot to mention that.

You probably need a new slaw cylinder or the transmission synchros are going out.

Doubt its the synchros, they have nothing to do with how the clutch pedal feels. It still shifts through the gears fine. I'm leaning towards slave cylinder, though. Thanks!

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Ah, forgot to notice the 'mushy' clutch. It probably the slave cylinder but try bleed it first.

 

[99gst_racer]

Ah, forgot to notice the 'mushy' clutch. It probably the slave cylinder but try bleed it first.

We re-bled it earlier today (first post) - nothing changed. Are you sure this is a symptom of a bad slave or are you just guessing? We don't want to start changing parts on a whim.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

We re-bled it earlier today (first post) - nothing changed. Are you sure this is a symptom of a bad slave or are you just guessing? We don't want to start changing parts on a whim.

If you have bleed it already and those no obvious leaks than it is most likely a bad slave cylinder. If you don't trust me just wait it out until the clutch to sticks to the floor and you'll know it's a bad slave cylinder or you can look on other forums.

 

[99gst_racer]

If you have bleed it already and those no obvious leaks than it is most likely a bad slave cylinder. If you don't trust me just wait it out until the clutch to sticks to the floor and you'll know it's a bad slave cylinder or you can look on other forums.

It's not that I don't trust you; I just want to make sure you aren't guessing. We're not willing to spend money on other's guesses - that's all.

Is there any test we can do to rule out the slave cylider?

 

[Auto RS T]

To visually check the slave cylinder look for wetness (DOT 3) under the rubber boot. It should be dry if it is good. You can also observe the travel of the rod while someone works the clutch pedal. Be sure the line going into the slave is tight too. Re-check the connections on your SS line for tightness.

Under the dash look at the back of the Clutch master cylinder. Pull the boot back where the rod goes through and also look for fluid in that area. If it were leaking the fluid may have even stained the carpet.

 

[Locke]

Disassemble the slave and inspect for damage.

 

[asd_gst]

this is happening me too and i was looking the other day and found nothign about it. sometimes my clutch feels good then ill go to shift put it to the floor and car wont come out of gear, reverse grinds someitmes, sometimes car shifts great others its like clutch is blown, fluid is good ive been thinking slave and master cylinder are bad, so i guess we're having same problems

edit: any one have pictures of the SS clutch line installed on their cars im kinda curious to see hwo it looks and how you run the lines

 

[fertez_turbo]

Well, replaced the slave cylinder tonight and its not any better. The pedal feels like it has a LITTLE more pressure, but there is still a lot of play at the top, probably over an inch if I had to guess. When shifting the pedal doesn't always come all the way back up, all the but maybe that inch or so. Still tough getting in to first and reverse. Shifting 2-3 is a PAIN under 4k or so rpms, if I shift 2-3 above 4500 it goes in super easy. Clutch is definitely bled well. Any other ideas fellas??? This is really getting on my nerves...Thanks!

 

[asd_gst]

did you change the master cylinder too? and i was wondering should i get oem or just one from like advance auto or something but yea im about to get a master cylinder, slave, then a new clutch flywheel, and pressure plate

 

[99gst_racer]

No, we didn't change the master cylinder yet. It looks like it's a PITA to do, so we want to rule out any other possibility first.

 

[Dragon TalonTsi]

There is a question of the Master cylinder for the clutch, there is a way to check the piston seal fo the cylinder, but you have to bench bleed it. Or you can just remove the line, install a line that is cut and bent long enough into the master cylinder reservior, and push the pedal, or "bleed" it. If bubbles come out in the fluid, it has air internally and the seals (either bore end or piston) is getting bypassed, and time to replace it, no rebuilds for this. But when the fluid is clean and clear with no bubbles, its good, the seals and piston are fine. But when you get the new one, you will have to bench bleed it again anyway. If the slave cylinder is new, either with an rod extentsion or not, it should be fine, but check the seal and boot for leakage. Rebleed the entire system, then check for kinked lines, cracked fittings, etc...

1g4g63DSMsaid the Syncros are bad, you need to stop with the bad advice.

Read #3 of the forums rules:
Don't try to help if you don't know the answer - bad advice is often worse than no advice (no "I think" or "I guess" or "I've heard").

If it were the syncros as you so put it, there would be a horrible whine with that, due to the bearings and gears extreme wear and the chips from the syncros themselves, depending on which part was destroyed, (syncro rings, hubs, keepers, etc.) The syncronizers/blocking rings/keepers, whatever you want to call them (no real nomenclatures here, just universal names), are there to help "synchronize" the hubs and gears, due to the fact helical (not spur) gears have a hard time meshing, so this is the little insurance policy for gears to last longer, quiet the operations, and keep the shifts smooth. Backlash is also a key point, but that's another subject. Spur gears are usually not synchronized, due to the fact you are not going fast in gear, and its made for torque, which is why spur gears are noisy (ever notice in reverse?)

And I would also, eventhough its time consuming, I would check the trans. Just for the safe peace of mind. I would look at the synchronizer hub assemblies, shift rails and forks, detent cables and springs (with the detent cams) and bearings and seals. And your shifting problems could also be your shift cables and bushings being worn or out of adjustment.

I hope this helps.... Pm with anymore questions...

I would also check the clutch assembly. Its alot of work, but I guarantee you will find the problem in doing this R&R. Check the flywheel for runout and proper mounting (torque specs and locktite). Check the fulcrum ball and fork for wear and tear, the extension for the slave cylinder isn't a bad idea, but its usually not needed if everything else is intact and working properly. I would also check the diaphragm springs, the pressure plate, clutch disc, etc. Its replaced, so that isn't a big worry. A SS line for the clutch would also help with the mushy pedal, afterwards, its crisp and clean movement. Make sure you grease all points, reinstall everything back to specs, and go from there. A clutch sytem is one of the easier hydraulic circuits to figure out, even easier than brakes.

 

[havoc742]

The previous owner of my car had the same problem. We pulled the tranny 3 times in the same day trying to figure it out. Finally we called our local gurus at the shop and, duh, we were told to replace the pivot ball and fork. So we did and got it all back together. To our surprise problem solved.

 

[Auto RS T]

I would check the clutch master guys. Was it wet under the boot or firewall carpet area? You did say the level was good I see... but did you mark the reservoir with a sharpie and continue to observe the fluid level after a few drive cycles ? If you are still driving the car you may want to try that to confirm some type of leak in the system by doing this now. You obviously cannot bleed the system anymore if this level check is going to work.

To me, "mushy" says air is getting in the clutch hydraulic sytem. The clutch assembly is newer so were giving it the benefit of the doubt right now.

 

[99gst_racer]

Thanks again for the help thus far, guys. It's very much appreciated.


The old slave was a bit wet inside of the boot, and it had alot of corrosion on the shaft.

We'll check the inside firewall area for wetness this afternoon. We'll also check the connection of the hardline to flex line underneath the fuse box.

It's also worth noting that this car was recently, completely gone through. We just got everything back together and running about 1500 miles ago. And this issue surfaced and progressively worsened over the last 500 miles, but everything was perfect for the first 1000 miles.

I drew up a quick diagram to illustrate the clutch pedal travel, and how it acting.

The entire line represents the pedal throw. The BLUE area represents the area that feels mushy/dead. After replacing the slave and bleeding the system, we went for a drive, and it seemed worse than before. The pedal would even sometimes briefly 'stick' at the GREEN line. Before this issue arose, the clutch would engage right off the floor, and had strong pressure throughout the entire pedal throw.

 

[Auto RS T]

You can test the master like this.

Double flare a small piece of line ,maybe 4 inches long max, with the appropriate fitting for the master. If you have an extra hardline laying around, you can just use this after pinching it closed. You will then pinch the line effectively making a plug. Put some type of sealant on the threads so air cannot pull past them during the test.

Now unhook the line at the master. Bleed it like brakes using the plug. The only difference is the fluid and air will escape past the threads and not out a bleeder hole, making a mess. After repeating several times it should be bled. When satisfied, leave the plug tight and try to depress the clutch. It should be harder than a rock and not go anywhere, otherwise the master is bad.

Bleeding procedure: (I'm sure you guys know, but this is more for future searchers)

1. Push clutch pedal down and hold (crack fitting open and allow air to escape)... (still down) tighten the fitting.

2. Pedal up (fitting still tight) Check the reservoir and fill as nessecary, do not let the fluid level get low and suck in more air.

3. Down (crack fitting open and allow air to escape)..(still down) tighten the fitting. Repeat 1-3 several times until satisfied all air has been removed..

 

[mattdev]

Have you correctly adjusted the Clutch Pedal/ Master Cylinder Pushrod? This fixed my problem (sounds the same as yours). I had the problem for over a year; changed the slave, master, installed FULL SS line, new clutch fork & pivot ball, and new clutch, none of which fixed it.

The pedal was fully contacting the Master Pushrod, but was soft as butter (with my 2600) until about 1" off the floor. The problem finally came to a head when my clutch started dragging...

I was RANDOMLY cruising around and found Jack's Transmission's video guides, and found this:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vYJxQyjIhUw&rel=0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vYJxQyjIhUw&rel=0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Original Format:
Jack's Transmission Videos

Hope that solves it!!

 

[fertez_turbo]

Have you correctly adjusted the Clutch Pedal/ Master Cylinder Pushrod? This fixed my problem (sounds the same as yours). I had the problem for over a year; changed the slave, master, installed FULL SS line, new clutch fork & pivot ball, and new clutch, none of which fixed it.

The pedal was fully contacting the Master Pushrod, but was soft as butter (with my 2600) until about 1" off the floor. The problem finally came to a head when my clutch started dragging...

I was RANDOMLY cruising around and found Jack's Transmission's video guides, and found this:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vYJxQyjIhUw&rel=0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vYJxQyjIhUw&rel=0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Original Format:
Jack's Transmission Videos

Hope that solves it!!

Just got in from the garage and we noticed this as we were looking under the dash to see if the master was leaking and we noticed the adjustable rod. It was finger loose and not even making contact with the lower clutch switch. I gave it a few rotations and tightened the lock nut and walla, goes into first and reverse like butter, shifts great, pedal pressure back to normal. THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP GUYS!!!