Replaced Timing belt barely starts but drives perfect

[Sk8er07999]

Ok here's what happend. Balance shaft belt broke without harming Timing belt. So my girlfriends dad (he's a retired mechanic) and I pulled everything out to replace the belts now here's the wierd part. Before removing the T-belt we planned on aligning the cam sprockets, oil pump, and crank. The book says we should have to turn the motor over by hand up to eight times or something until they all line up. We turned it over like thirty times and not once did they all line up. Not even close. The cams did but when those where lined up every time something else was off. We where both like WTF? According to the book there is no way the car would even run. So we decided to make sure it ran before taking the belt off. I jumped in the car and turned the key. It started right up perfectly! Since there was no water pump we turned the car off after a few seconds. After thinking about it for a while we decided to mark everything as it was and pull of the belt. Now before installing the belt we aligned the crank to the TDC mark on the block, the oilpump to it's mark, and the notches in the cam gears where aligned together as well as with the top of the head. (oh yeah and the b-shaft we had all aligned with the belt on too). With the belt on we turned the motor over by hand to make sure it didn't stop like the valves where hitting or something. Seemed fine and after turning it over time after time everything lined up perfectly like it says it should in the book belt was tight auto tensioner was perfect. So we decided to start it. What do you know it started right up! Wierd.... Shut the car off, put everything back on. Went to start it and batt was dead. So we jumped the car and it wouldn't start. finally got it to start but this time it sounded like I had cams with like a 5 foot lift! Barely ran but sounded cool. Stared at it for a while and decided to take if for a drive. Car runs perfect! Has just as much power if not more then before! Also my oil pressure is alot better as well. No valve tick or lifter tick either very pleased but the thing idles like a piece of junk. When it's could it refuses to start and when it does it's like I have massive cams. After reaching operating temp it goes away but has the worst idle I have ever seen. anywhere from 600-1500 and it just doens't want to go idle. What the hell? Thanks to anyone who read the story. But it doesn't end there noticed car was leaking a ton of oil. Drove back home, pulled apart and oil was coming out from behind the auto tensioner, we forget to fully tighten it down. Who knew the holes go all the way in... BUT this gave us a chance to make sure everything aligned. And it DID! put it back to together and still barely started when cold and when hot it has the worst idle I have ever seen. AND IT NEVER IDLED LIKE THIS BEFORE T&B SHAFT BELT CHANGES. Whats the prob? IAC? BISS? When the car is running I unplugged the harness to the IAC motor and it doesn't even have an affect on the idle at all. Thats wierd. I am thinking bad IAC. Do you think thats a good bet? I don't know wtf is goin on and it's really getting to me. Any help would be great thanks.

 

[Sk8er07999]

Well I remember I was looking at the cam gears and he would rotate it around from the crank. I would say when they lined up. So he would rotate arond and when they lined up he would rotate it a little further and the crank would line up but at this point he marks on the cam gear where about an inch apart. ANd thats the closed we could get. So when the crank lined up to tdc the cams would be an inch apart at best. But Also the oil pump wasn't lined up either.

 

[jpolizo]

That's pretty far off for the car to be running well.

If I had to bet $5 -- I'd say that your friend was lining up the crankshaft timing mark incorrectly. If that were the case, it would do exactly what you are describing -- the cam gear marks would not line up and the oil-pump shaft wouldn't either. By re-setting it to make everything line up, with the crankshaft incorrectly positioned, the timing will be off now and that's why you are having problems. The 'zzzz' may well be the IAC motor trying to keep the engine running in near impossible conditions.

If you have a digital camera, it might be useful to post a picture of all the marks lined up when you think it's correct; then we can take a look and see what's up.

I'm sorry you are having problems with your car -- I know how that goes and it sucks.

 

[Sk8er07999]

You can said cash or check to me for that 5 dollars. I finally got time tihs weekend to tear it down and check it for the third time. everything lines up perfectly as it should. The pictures aren't that good cause the only digital camera I have is my cell phone. But you have my word the b-shaft, crank, oil pump, and cams all line up perfectly. I also started the car for a few seconds just on the battery to see whats up. car started right up even though it had been sitting for days and has a weak battery. Seemed to run fine and there where no funny sounds. After starting I rechecked the timing marks for the 4th time now and yep still perfect. That when I took the pictures. Have a look. Oh and don't forget about the $5... Heres the pics.

 

[Sk8er07999]

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[Sk8er07999]

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[Sk8er07999]

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[Sk8er07999]

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[Sk8er07999]

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[Sk8er07999]

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[GTM]

Originally posted by Sk8er07999
You can said cash or check to me for that 5 dollars.
...
I rechecked the timing marks for the 4th time now and yep still perfect. That when I took the pictures. Have a look. Oh and don't forget about the $5... Heres the pics.

You had me convinced by the 2nd post.

What I want to know is the car FIXED?

Don't let people make you jump through hoops.

When you get it back together and running will you restate the problem(s)? Maybe we/you missed some key element that was missed on the first pass.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Sk8er07999]

This is what happend before. All the accesory belts where off. Car started and ran fine for the few seconds we ran it. Then when we put everything back on the idle drops and once again has a hard time running at idle. Do you think we might be making the belts too tight? I will put everything back on tomorrow and tell you what happends. Maybe I can record the sound and put it on here some how. I know I can't do video though. Oh yeah and the power steering is low and I refilled but the noise wasn't power steering it's coming from the around the intake mani and t-body. I think I am going to convert to gm mafs and maft since I am venting to the atmosphere. That will for sure help out the idle prob.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by Sk8er07999
This is what happend before.
...
I think I am going to convert to gm mafs and maft since I am venting to the atmosphere. That will for sure help out the idle prob.

Have you checked ign. timing with a timing light? Check again after it's all back and running, let us know what it is.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[jpolizo]

Hey there. Remember I said "if I had $5..."

On the cam marks, if you put a straightedge on the the top of the head, do the two marks shown in the photo line up with the top of the head? It's not clear from the photo.

Definitely don't jump through any hoops. These are just suggestions. So far, nobody has yet figured out how this car ran well with the timing wrong or why it's not running right now with the timing "right". If you get a good explanation for that, then I guess you'll have it fixed. In the meantime, it's a debugging problem.

 

[Defiant]

Okay, 'nuff guff.