Ready for Stage I Upgrades. Please advise.

[sickguy]

Hi all, I own a '97 Spyder GST, all stock except HKS Super Sequential Blow Off Valve, Tokico blue shocks and new BFG KDWS tires (nice!). I'm ready to do the stage I (basic) upgrades now, below is the list please give as much input as possible.

- K&N FIPK Intake ($110 - SlowBoyRacing)
- RNR Racing O2-Eliminated Turbo Back Exhaust ($759 - RNR)
- Hallman MBC (? - ?)
- Autometer Boost Gauge and Triple Gauge Pod (~$85)
- Greddy upper & lower intercooler piping ($209 - SlowBoyRacing)

I'm hoping to do all these upgrades for now and turn the boost to 15 psi before doing the next upgrade with bigger turbo and other support mods (probably next yr as I'll be broke). What you guys think about the list? Anything missing or anything I don't need yet? (e.g. Do I need fuel pump upgrade?) Also, do you know better pricing for these parts, and where to get it, e.g. I'm not sure where to get Hallman MBC. The upgrade that I'm not sure if I should get is the intercooler piping. Does it make a difference? If so, will the Greddy pipes be compatible if I upgrade to Greddy Big intercooler in the future or I don't have to buy any other intercooler piping.

Any input will be great and appreciated. Thanks !

 

[bosljeff]

Just my .02, cuz I'm still not a veteran:

I don't know the later generations, but have you done whatever free mods you can to it? If so, what ones?

For starters: K&N, hacked airbox, fuel pump rewire, new plugs (NGK), new wires...

The list seems pretty good to me. Damn, you buyin that all at once? If so, I'm jealous, most of my upgrades are "financially cycled".

The only think I can think of is if you do have that kind of denaro, I would personally get an electronic boost controller, especially if you have the kind of money to be upping the boost on a semi-regular basis. The MBC is nice, but if there is one thing I could afford, it would be an electronic one. My reasoning is I've only had to re-tune my boost a couple of times, and it drives me nuts adjusting it, driving, looking at my gauge, stopping, adjusting, driving, gauge....you get my drift.

I would fill the other two holes of you gauge pod with an EGT gauge and as for the third many argue air/fuel, water temp, and so on. I don't know what to tell you.

As for fuel, you'll want to make it "better" as you increase the air the turbo will be putting out. For now, the fuel pump rewire should suffice, but if you are upgrading turbo, you'll want a new pump and/or injectors.

While you are doing all of this, you might want to see where you are at as a 'baseline' with a datalogger. These can be invaluable as you continue to mod cuz you'll want to know what effects (good and bad) your mods are having.

Again, there are people on this site that know a hell of a lot more than me, but I just noticed you didn't have any responses and I know I would be wanting at least something to read especially as a newbie with a list of "to-dos" like that.

Good luck, I'll help you as best I can.

Boz

 

[KPWSerpiente]

The list looks good. Yes you should get upper intercooler piping, it will make a difference. Yes any piping you get now will be compatible with the Greddy Large Front Mount because it routes piping to the stock location. A fuel pump is a good thing to have but not needed at this point...if you do get one you will want to rewire it (www.vfaq.com is your friend) and depending on what kind you get you might need an AFPR (adjustable fuel pressure regulator) to prevent over run.

-T

 

[sickguy]

Hey, thanks for the advise Boz and KPW. I haven't done any free mods as I never touched anything under the hood, so you can call me a newbie newbie. I already got the spark plugs and wires changed (both NGK). FYI, I'm on a tight budget too so MBC is probably my first choice (Greddy Profec runs about $300 I remember). As for EGT and air/fuel gauges I plan to do those later, along with fuel pump, injectors, intercooler,datalogger... when I get a bigger tubo as I think they're don't help much now for my purpose.

Again, any of you know where to get the hallman MBC cheap? And I think gauges are too expensive too, where do you recommend me to get those, I don't mind if they're used. Also, do you think the prices that I got here good?

Thanks again, your input really help a beginner like me.

 

[bosljeff]

I got my boost gauge off ebay new. One thing to remember is to get one that reads both vacuum (mmHg) AND boost (psi). This one is the one I have, and am very happy with: Autometer #4301 30-0-20 boost and buy it now for 49. Item number: 2467682598

Also, I wouldn't go with the Autometer guage pod, well, unless the 2g and 3g ones are nicer than the 1g, I just know there are nicer ones that instead of bolting onto your existing piller, they replace the entire thing...I'll get back to you on that.

http://www.gaugepods.com/mitsubishi.html


As for the MBC, I got one that seems reputable and for some reason, I liked it better than the Hallman when researching, but I can't remember why. I think it was because of the locking mechanism. The Joe P stayed where you wanted, I heard the Hallman could loosen, but I don't remember for sure.
Hallman for 100 Item number: 2467396250

It is called Joe P MBC and you can get it here: http://www.joepmbc.com/ $45.

Hope that helps.

 

[bosljeff]

http://www.buschurracing.com/upgrade.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/2gturbo/

http://www.dsm.org/menu.epl?item=304

www.vfaq.com

These are some of the best sites available.

 

[sickguy]

Thanks, Boz. Once again, you saved my day. I heard of all of them like the Joe P MBC and Lotek pods just didn't know where to get them, thanks a lot for the links! As for boost gauge, is 30-0-20 sufficient? As I thought we could easily boost over 20PSI, but this one only reads up to 20 PSI. Sorry if the questions are stupid cuz I just bought my car a couple months and into this DSM tuners forum.

 

[NAT01]

Originally posted by sickguy
Thanks, Boz. Once again, you saved my day. I heard of all of them like the Joe P MBC and Lotek pods just didn't know where to get them, thanks a lot for the links! As for boost gauge, is 30-0-20 sufficient? As I thought we could easily boost over 20PSI, but this one only reads up to 20 PSI. Sorry if the questions are stupid cuz I just bought my car a couple months and into this DSM tuners forum.

Sure you can run more than 20psi, but not with that stock turbo. You would also need the supporting mods. So to answer your other question, yes, the 30-0-20 should suffice, unless you plan on doing some MAJOR modifications to your car. I would say you'd want to stay right around a max of 14psi with the stock T-25. I'm sure the other more experienced guys can help. I'm a newb like yourself, but I've ben doing countless hours of reading on this forum just so I can make sure I do things correctly before attempting certain feats. Good luck!

 

[Talon96tsiAWD]

16-18 is a good limit for the t25.

 

[NAT01]

Originally posted by Talon96tsiAWD
16-18 is a good limit for the t25.

I could see 16-18 as a limit, but is it safe to run a t-25 that high as a daily driver, along with pushing it? I could see running a 14b like that with the supporting mods, but if you were running a t-25 that high for long enough, wouldn't it be like pushing hot air? Sort of defeating it's efficiency?

 

[Talon96tsiAWD]

all depends on the condition of the turbo. I feel 16 psi daily on a t25 is fine. As far as 18, it would depend on the setup. Each car responds slightly different to the same amount of boost.

 

[sickguy]

I think I read somewhere that with the stock T-25 the highest you should go is 16 PSI, but to be safe 15 should be my daily driven PSI.

Damn it, I just read that O2-Eliminated turbo back exhaust is illegal in all states, can someone confirm that? I live in CA so if it's illegal can I still pass smog/emission test with it? I heard that O2-E is good cuz it flows better than those with O2 housings. I would have to get a standard turbo back then if it's confirmed and port the hell out of the O2 housing once I get a bigger turbo, my plan for next upgrade is EvoIII 16G. Should I get a 3" or 2.5" turbo-back? I really like the 3" but I'm worried that boost creep will be killing me, I plan to do the turbo upgrade proabably next year so I'll be driving with the stock turbo with 3" turbo-back.

Thanks again for your help guys.

 

[NAT01]

"Damn it, I just read that O2-Eliminated turbo back exhaust is illegal in all states, can someone confirm that? I live in CA so if it's illegal can I still pass smog/emission test with it?"

I think that you being in CA would give you the least likely chance of passing an inspection, especially because of the smog testing. I think I just read on another old post (I was researching o2 eliminators myself) that you can't pass with one, but don't quote me. Good luck!

 

[2GeNTSi]

Damn it, I just read that O2-Eliminated turbo back exhaust is illegal in all states, can someone confirm that? I live in CA so if it's illegal can I still pass smog/emission test with it? I heard that O2-E is good cuz it flows better than those with O2 housings. I would have to get a standard turbo back then if it's confirmed and port the hell out of the O2 housing once I get a bigger turbo, my plan for next upgrade is EvoIII 16G. Should I get a 3" or 2.5" turbo-back? I really like the 3" but I'm worried that boost creep will be killing me, I plan to do the turbo upgrade proabably next year so I'll be driving with the stock turbo with 3" turbo-back.

Yeah most likely you will not pass, I have to go get my smog done this Nov. I just plan to put my oe downpipe back on and leave the catback.

As for the intercooler piping, I suggest you go with Dejontool, they are cheaper and you can pick what color and what flange you want for your BOV. I got the piping for about $195 shipped flanged for a 1G BOV. Got the bov from a friend for $30. If you get the Greddy IC piping kit, you HAVE to get the Greddy Type S BOV, unless you buy a flange and have it welded on at some shop.

 

[98spydert]

I've got all the mods you listed on my spyder also, just a different exhaust. I would recommend a 190 walbro pump to go along with your list. Only $100. If you plan on going with huge turbo and what not then ou cn go with the bigger one and an AFPR to go with it. Also before you put any more power adders on, I'd get a clutch that will hold the power. My stocker just took a crap (after never once launching on it) and I went with the Centerforce DF set up RRE sells for $345 a kit. It's got a 2500 lb pressure plate so it'll hold bunch while not affecting clutch peddle pressure or risking crankwalk. Good Luck.

 

[Jebus[tuning]]

If you're worried about emissions, hold on to your stock exhaust and put it back on when you go to get tested.

 

[Jimmy Jr.]

Your list is good. The lower intercooler pipe isn't going to do much good if any right now, just get a used Brode uicp for $40 off the trader and you'll save $170 right there. Those mods will take you to the threshold of the next stage which, regardless of what others tell you, is an expensive stage. In order to support and fully utilize a bigger turbo whether it be a t28, 16g or even bigger you're going to need at the very least an safc, injectors, pump, logger or dynotune, and preferabley a front mount. Add all those to the price of the turbo and you're talking a pretty penny compared to what you're getting right now.

 

[2GeNTSi]

Speaking of clutches, I was looking around on DSMparts.com. They sell the ACT2100 with the OE Street Disc and OE TO Bearing. Is the OE Street Disc as good ast the ACT Street Disc or what?

I have extra money to spend since I decided not to buy the Greddy 24R FMIC. So I'm considering a new clutch, I already bought a dual-stage mbc, 190 fuel pump, pocketlogger cable, and hotsync cable. The rest either put away for something else that I might run into (for my car of course) or a clutch.

 

[bosljeff]

Originally posted by 2GeNTSi
Speaking of clutches, I was looking around on DSMparts.com. They sell the ACT2100 with the OE Street Disc and OE TO Bearing. Is the OE Street Disc as good ast the ACT Street Disc or what?

I have extra money to spend since I decided not to buy the Greddy 24R FMIC. So I'm considering a new clutch, I already bought a dual-stage mbc, 190 fuel pump, pocketlogger cable, and hotsync cable. The rest either put away for something else that I might run into (for my car of course) or a clutch.

I am still kinda new, but what is the street disc? Is that the flywheel....?
Also, refresh my memory as to what the TO bearing is...since I did this so long ago, I have forgot that jargon and the research I did...

Anyway, when I got my ACT 2100 from buschur racing, that was all I could afford, no lightened flywheel, no resurfacing, nothing. I haven't had a problem and I have had some pretty nice clutch-dumping launches.

That may or may not have helped, but I'll try to be more specific when I refresh my "clutch memory".

boz

 

[98spydert]

The "street disk" is the flat two sided organic disk that sits between the fly wheel (large flat solid metal disk with teeth on the outside that stays bolted to the engine when the tranny comes off) and the pressure plate (bolts to the fly wheel holding the clutch disk agains the flywheel). An OE street disk would refer to a stock style clutch disk rather than a performance part.

TO bearing is the throw out bearing that sits in the tranny housing. Someone else will have to describe it because I can't think of a simple way to put it.

In the future, always resurface the fly wheel. It'll make your new clutch last a lot longer.

 

[bosljeff]

Originally posted by 98spydert
The "street disk" is the flat two sided organic disk that sits between the fly wheel (large flat solid metal disk with teeth on the outside that stays bolted to the engine when the tranny comes off) and the pressure plate (bolts to the fly wheel holding the clutch disk agains the flywheel). An OE street disk would refer to a stock style clutch disk rather than a performance part.

TO bearing is the throw out bearing that sits in the tranny housing. Someone else will have to describe it because I can't think of a simple way to put it.

In the future, always resurface the fly wheel. It'll make your new clutch last a lot longer.

Oh yeah, I remember what the TO is, had to get that damn alignment tool for intall.

I know I should have done the flywheel. Very newbie at the time. I can't remember what 'disc' I got with my 2100, is that usually something that comes with the clutch or is it something you have to replace or what?

Take care all
boz

 

[Groomz]

The T25 is crap at any boost level. Max is at 15psi ( or a 2.0 pressure ratio ) where it can put out 250cfm's. At higher RPM's the engine needs more than 250cfm's, especially at 15psi.

A 14b will do wonders and doesn't cost alot. 100$ for a used one and a custom install ( 50$ ) has you on your way. A 14b at 10psi will spank a T25 at any psi.

 

[Eclipse96Ryder]

FUEL MODS

with the new mods ur gonna need to supply more fuel with the added air. and then control it with an safc from apexi and get a datalogger too...

 

[xBOOSTx]

http://jumptronix.com/2g_go_faster/

 

[IMMORTALSPYDER]

A different Bov, and a fuel pump would help.