Racing Teams and Crews... who joins this goofy shit?

[ldstang50]

i guess i get the privelage of starting the 5th page of this thread. Some good reading in there.
Luda as Nikki said, Team Trinity does just about all of there racing at the track. To all, this is just our club I'm talking about, I'm not trying to generalize. There are the occasions I will race someone on a lonely backroad late at night when no one is around. However with that, I do think stop light racing is stupid.
The reason I put stickers on my car is the crew I hang out with all the time has helped me out greatly. If it wasn't for them my car would not be where it is today. So last time at the track I had our graphics design guy (turbo1307) lay the team name on my car. I figured it was the least I could since I figured on being in the 11s and getting a little recognition. The other reason I allowed the sticker was because the guy that laid the stickers, thats his personally owned business. I figured if my car garnered attention then I would also be able to draw attention to his upstart company.
Back on subject here. I used to think car teams were g@y. Bunch of ricers running around doing stupid sh!t. There are the teams that have show cars, not my think, I hate body kits and aftermarket wings, then there are the race teams. I get into a gray area with the race teams. I classify a race team as a group of people who own a few cars, modify them and take them to the track to actually race. If I can think of a clearer definition for you I will later on.

 

[gsx rated98]

The words have expanded to "mean" more becasue of these silly "teams." Before all of this F&F horseshit people just belonged to clubs or helped there friends. Now everyone wants to be on a "team" so that they can get laid by no brain bitches, or so than can impress other ignorant people.

Thanks not true. Im a part of Team Trinity, and i hardly ever get laid....

 

[EclpzLvr97]

:laugh:

 

[Ludachris]

i guess i get the privelage of starting the 5th page of this thread. Some good reading in there.
Luda as Nikki said, Team Trinity does just about all of there racing at the track. To all, this is just our club I'm talking about, I'm not trying to generalize.

And this is why I was saying that not all clubs fit the profile I'm talking about - your club being one of the few... now if you'd please just name it "Club Trinity" or something maybe Trinity Trackmasters.... anything! Just set yourself apart from all those other "teams". Help me out here! (I'm kidding - well halfway at least).

 

[EclpzLvr97]

TRINITY TRACKMASTERS....that's hot. But it reminds me of a DJ or something.

Still, it's hot.

Club Trinity might confuse some people....they'd wonder if we're a religious group or what...

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

Thanks not true. Im a part of Team Trinity, and i hardly ever get laid....

damn i should have taken you guys up on the offer to join if i knew it entitled me to getting laid.

hahahahaha

Team Trinity is a good group of people. They are mature performance enthusiasts and i think they represent the ideal "team" and the DSM community very well.

 

[Ludachris]

Here is the conclusiion I've come to after many years of watching "the scene" transform.

1. A group of individuals who enjoy modifying their cars (performance or visual) is just that. A group. You can change the semantics all you wish, crew, gang, team, hommies, bros, etc. The fact remains that they are a group.

2. The use of the terms "Race" or "Racing" when applied to the vast majority of these groups is a misnomer. While there are a few legitmate amaturer groups that do spend a great deal of time advocating, attending and participating in safe, legal, sanctioned race events, they are very rare.

3. There is nothing wrong with a group of people who take an interest in their vehicles and choose to modify them (be it performance, big wings, chrome spinners, washer leds, or stereo systems. So long as they enjoy what they do, and do it because they love it, more power to them. As a personal note, their group name should indicate who they are and what they do. Calling a group who only does show modifications "racer/race/racing" anything is laughable.

4. Hollywood, The Newspaper conglomerates and mass media nightly news will not in any way help the image of "the scene." Their jobs respecitvely are to sell movies, sell subscriptions and sell advertising space, portraying the modified scene as an exclusive club that takes over the streets and night and kills kids in minivans helps them do that.

5. To improve the image or better yet, the scene itself, these groups regardless of racing inclinations should be helping the communities they reside in. Promoting knowledgeable modification (teaching someone to fiberglass a fender or how to install a new turbo , or whatever it is that said group has knowledge of), Think of activities outside of cars, how about local clean up days at the beach, toys for tots, or any of a number of other charitable things, promoting open track days, pushing for sanctioned racing locations, etc.
By being responsible citizens, not street racing, helping the community, etc. The public will gain a far more favorable impression.

6. Many of these groups are young people. The undeniable need to be accepted and to be a part of something larger than themselves is what leads to most of these groups, a common interest is just the thread that pulls them together. As they grow up and become more secure in themselves you usually find the groups have disolved and instead of being the "Mad Tyte Ricer Racers Yo" team they're now just a group of friends who don't need ridiculous names or vinyl badging to try and impress the general public (by the way..for those that are trying to impress the public...frankly folks they aren't impressed, most laugh, and the others just plain don't give a rat's ass).

7. No Matter how the majority of the modified world acts there will always be a new bunch of fresh drivers who just saw the latest hollywood movie and will take it upon themselves to be the target of the jokes. Just like those that modify their cars for image/status/impressing other people will fade from the scene. These types will always be around, they exisit in every hobby from fishing to paintball...those than are and those that want to pretend to be...but when modifying cars is no longer the "IN" thing, there will be far less of them, they'll move on to the next thing.
8. Cliff's Notes will not be available for this post.

9. I have dozens more points to express, but I think this is enough to chew on in one sitting.

I'll leave you with this thought. Many of you bi*** about "the scene" how "the scene" is portrayed, and so on. Well you can bi*** all you want to, but until you are actively doing something to make "the scene" better or help create a positive attitude toward it, your bitching is as helpful as those you bi*** about. Not so many years ago Bikers were the target of community disgust, police harrassment and generally the same things you all complain about. It wasn't that all bikers were bad, just that a few earned the rest a bad reputation. The legit bikers took the initiatiive to change that image...they started organizing rallies for toys for tots and doing positive things for thier communities and guess what happened...

Good overall point of view. I guess my calling for people to go to the track is one of the first steps I'm taking in trying to "actively do something to make the scene better". I'm also planning a DSMtuners Driver Sponsorship program that will help out drivers who participate in real sanctioned racing events (like SCCA and NHRA). I'm ready to start trying to make an impact on all the negativity that has been brought into our hobby - who else is ready?

One suggestion I have is for all those "groups" out there who do not regularly go to the track or participate in sanctioned racing events is to change your group name if it has the term "racing" or "team" in it. You may think this is stupid, but believe me, properly describing what your car club is all about by choosing an accurate name will work wonders for what we're trying to do here. It will bring a little badly needed legitimacy back to our hobby. Because believe me, even though your "team" may be different from the majority who ruin our hobby, your club name tells people that you're part of that same crowd. Help everyone differentiate from the bad seeds, don't follow the same inaccurate naming scheme the "racers" use (the ones who don't race).

 

[ldstang50]

Thanks Martin for the up talk of Team Trinity. Much appreciated.
Luda, most of the members of our club dont' like to turn the wheel, they like drag racing. Nothing wrong with that. I like going straight also but I prefer road racing then auto-x. The thing with road racing is there is a lot more money and risk involved. I road raced with Driving Clubs and SCCA a few years back with a Mustang GT, got a few plaques here and there. But the amount it cost to do a club race (roughly $200) compared to a night of drag racing ($35) is quite substantial. Plus I also think there is more risk involved in road racing, being out there with other cars and the chance or wrecking. Most street cars in our league won't see above 120mph at the strip, but if you were to to go VIR or Summit Point, you would regularly see speeds of 140mph then having to slam on your brakes for a tight 2nd gear turn. Also for a lot of us, our 'race car' is our only car, atleast for me it is. If I rip and axle or tear up my clutch, I spend $500 for a clutch or $200 for an axle and a few hours later my car is fixed. But if I were to wreck at a road course I'd be out my car because its in the shop plus my insurance would go up for having an accident.
Auto-x is really fun. Thats what I would recomment to people, thats were you see real drivers, plus there isn't the Import v Domestic thing going on there either. Everyone helps everyone out.
As far as getting licensed, I have the SCCA license package for auto-x in my desk drawer right now. Its a $70 membership fee, plus $25 to buy the general Competeition Rule book then you have see a doctor to have an exam done, expensive if you dont' have medical insurance. Then you have to get a Novice Permit, this allows you to enter SCCA Driver's School and later , SCCA regional Club Races. You send that in with two pics, a copy of your license, medical form and $55 more dollars. Now you have to enter the driver's school, most of the time they are only held in the spring and run about $100. You must provide your own race car, driving gear and SCCA approved helmet. If you dont' have a car you can rent one for $500 to $2000. Once you complete that and go to school you are required to to two regional races. Now you are finally eligible for a license. $55 now to get your regional SCCA license. Then after four regional races you can get your National Competition License for another $10.
There are ways to short cut the process but they are expensive also. The cost of getting my SCCA license to drag racing right now is just not feasible. Thats why most of us are not SCCA licensed. Trust me I would LOVE to be SCCA licensed that is one of my goals in life. But it just can't happen right now.
So for right now, I'll stick with my drag racing and occasional club auto-x days and still be on Team Trinity.
Sorry if I came off like an obnoxious, know-it-all-ass, that was not my intent I cant' tell my ass from my elbow sometimes

 

[igopoopy]

i blame stuff like this to http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144346

 

[boostedinaz]

Thanks Martin for the up talk of Team Trinity. Much appreciated.
Luda, most of the members of our club dont' like to turn the wheel, they like drag racing. Nothing wrong with that. I like going ..........
...........So for right now, I'll stick with my drag racing and occasional club auto-x days and still be on Team Trinity.
Sorry if I came off like an obnoxious, know-it-all-ass, that was not my intent I cant' tell my ass from my elbow sometimes

I would actually like it if going to a dragarace was a little more complicated than it is, that way it would get all the posers pushed to the side in a hurry. Now all you have to do it show up and pass tech, nothing more. Most of the night is spent watching kids do all kinds of dumb shit. I have thought about asking track owners/officials if me and some of my friends can put on a basic class to show just a few simple things so that they arent out there with no knowledge.

 

[Tevenor]

As far as getting licensed, I have the SCCA license package for auto-x in my desk drawer right now. Its a $70 membership fee, plus $25 to buy the general Competeition Rule book then you have see a doctor to have an exam done, expensive if you dont' have medical insurance. Then you have to get a Novice Permit, this allows you to enter SCCA Driver's School and later , SCCA regional Club Races. You send that in with two pics, a copy of your license, medical form and $55 more dollars. Now you have to enter the driver's school, most of the time they are only held in the spring and run about $100. You must provide your own race car, driving gear and SCCA approved helmet. If you dont' have a car you can rent one for $500 to $2000. Once you complete that and go to school you are required to to two regional races. Now you are finally eligible for a license. $55 now to get your regional SCCA license. Then after four regional races you can get your National Competition License for another $10.

Uhm. There is no license package for autocross, with the exception of Pro-Solo. Ask me how I know.

You are comparing SCCA Club Racing (and by proxy NASA Pro racing) to drag strip nights. That's like comparing IHRA Competition with your local regional autocross events in the local mall parking lot. If you care going to compare costs between Road Racing and Drag, compare them on the same level. IHRA/NHRA to NASA Pro/SCCA Club racing. The cost differential all of a sudden change dramatically.



Think on this point. This discussion is AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE why we should consider the names we give clubs/teams/groups very carefully to avoid the blurring of the lines. In reality, all this talk of racing breaks down into 3 categories, but thanks to "Team Racey Race Racing Team" methodology of naming, nobody recognizes the distinction.

What I consider levels of racing:
1) Enthusiast Racing

This is the Friday night Test and Tunes, the occasional lapping day at the track with no passing (road race schools), and the occasional regional autocross. If you are taking your street car to any of these events, you are an enthusiast. This encompasses 75% of the import crowd.

2) Amateur Racing

These are for those poor souls that have found a niche or gained an addiction for racing. They are the people that compete in the local series, for instand local Drag Series or Participate in a Road Race series at a specific track. A great example is autocross. People at this state have bought an SCCA membership and compete in the season long championship series. They build cars to compete in these series, but usually the car is still streetable and can be use for double duty, although the focus is now on their chosen autosport no matter if it is drag racing, road racing, SoloII or rally, etc. Your focus is less "street" and more "what can I do within the limit of the ruleset". This is the point most people by themselves find the financial burden to be to much to stay and become competitive. So they either hover, drop back to level 1 or say screw it, and bump themselves to level 3.

3) Pro/Full Time Racing

These are the people have made the next step. The participate in nationally recognized series and their cars are purposely built for their style of racing. Although the car might be able to be driven on the street, the purpose is singularly towards competition. These are the times when sponsorships play a very important role as the cost increments dramatically as you get to this point. Examples of racing series would be the NHRA/IHRA drag racing a la John Shepard, Buschur and Brent Rau. This would include NASA Pro and SCCA Club racing. This would include the ProSolo and National Tour series for autocross and the Pro Rally for rallying. Within these series are different levels of commitment and cost factors but all take that step of a dedicated "race car".


That's how I break it down and how I see the import world of racing. I purposefully left off show cars but they follow the same trend. You have guys that build a damn nice street car and go to club meets (level 1), you have people that build really nice cars with shows in mind (level 2), and then you have people that go all out and shows are what it is ALL about. Same setup as racing, different focus.

 

[EclpzLvr97]

Think on this point. This discussion is AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE why we should consider the names we give clubs/teams/groups very carefully to avoid the blurring of the lines. In reality, all this talk of racing breaks down into 3 categories, but thanks to "Team Racey Race Racing Team" methodology of naming, nobody recognizes the distinction.

And think on this point.... I see the point Luda has been saying earlier.... but let's face it, there is gonna be "blurred" lines in this scene. And if one is gonna sit there and disect names of groups/teams or whatever you consider them, maybe one should re-calulate the worth of this argument and remind themselves.....OH YEAH, THERE'S MORE TO LIFE THAN CARS.

In addition, ldstang was not comparing SCCA to runnin at the dragstrip from what I read....his point was that not everyone can afford to do this SCCA shit.

Just so my tone is not misunderstood, here you go.......

 

[ldstang50]

Uhm. There is no license package for autocross, with the exception of Pro-Solo. Ask me how I know.

You are comparing SCCA Club Racing (and by proxy NASA Pro racing) to drag strip nights. That's like comparing IHRA Competition with your local regional autocross events in the local mall parking lot. If you care going to compare costs between Road Racing and Drag, compare them on the same level. IHRA/NHRA to NASA Pro/SCCA Club racing. The cost differential all of a sudden change dramatically.
What I consider levels of racing:
1) Enthusiast Racing

This is the Friday night Test and Tunes, the occasional lapping day at the track with no passing (road race schools), and the occasional regional autocross. If you are taking your street car to any of these events, you are an enthusiast. This encompasses 75% of the import crowd.

2) Amateur Racing

These are for those poor souls that have found a niche or gained an addiction for racing. They are the people that compete in the local series, for instand local Drag Series or Participate in a Road Race series at a specific track. A great example is autocross. People at this state have bought an SCCA membership and compete in the season long championship series. They build cars to compete in these series, but usually the car is still streetable and can be use for double duty, although the focus is now on their chosen autosport no matter if it is drag racing, road racing, SoloII or rally, etc. Your focus is less "street" and more "what can I do within the limit of the ruleset". This is the point most people by themselves find the financial burden to be to much to stay and become competitive. So they either hover, drop back to level 1 or say screw it, and bump themselves to level 3.

How do you know? Sorry just had to ask, I'm assuming because you autocross, which I do or because you are SCCA licensed. I tried signing up for an SCCA run auto-x and was told I need to be SCCA licensed or have a Novice Permit, thats just what I was told so I went ahead and got my package.
As far as your 3 step process I completely agree. Lets stick with the majority 75% who you say are in your first bracket. These are the one's that do your Friday night shoot outs and club racing or track days as you say correct? My lapping days at LimeRock in CT with Shelby Club, PDA (Performacne Drivers Association) and some others I cant' think of right now, all charged $200 or more to enter. A Friday night shoot out is about $35. So cost effectiveness the drag racing is cheaper. It is also easier since its pretty simple to hold your foot down on the gas.
Most of your auto-x, atleast the one's I have done are about the same cost as a Friday night Shootout. I personally find auto-x to be a lot more fun

 

[Tevenor]

How do you know? Sorry just had to ask, I'm assuming because you autocross, which I do or because you are SCCA licensed. I tried signing up for an SCCA run auto-x and was told I need to be SCCA licensed or have a Novice Permit, thats just what I was told so I went ahead and got my package.

Because I am an Instructor in 2 different regions and plan on running a few of the ProSolo's myself next year. To run a SOLOII event, other than the National Tour / Pro Solo and the Divisional Championships (see Level 3), you do NOT need to be an SCCA member, although SCCA membership will give you discounts. If your local region is enforcing that all participants be SCCA Members, then they are shooting themselves in the foot. There is no "Novice Permit" unless you are underage.

What region of the SCCA did you try to particpate in? Virginia area I am assuming? What is the name of hte local region?

As far as your 3 step process I completely agree. Lets stick with the majority 75% who you say are in your first bracket. These are the one's that do your Friday night shoot outs and club racing or track days as you say correct? My lapping days at LimeRock in CT with Shelby Club, PDA (Performacne Drivers Association) and some others I cant' think of right now, all charged $200 or more to enter. A Friday night shoot out is about $35. So cost effectiveness the drag racing is cheaper. It is also easier since its pretty simple to hold your foot down on the gas.
Most of your auto-x, atleast the one's I have done are about the same cost as a Friday night Shootout. I personally find auto-x to be a lot more fun

Still not a fair comparison. Say you get 10 runs at 15 seconds a piece. That's 150 seconds of run time, or 2 1/2 minutes. That's maybe 1 1/2 times around limerock. Did you go more than 1 1/2 times around lime rock? Same goes for autocross. say you get 5 runs in during 1 event with the average time of 60 seconds. That's 5 minutes of seat time.

You want more time in your car to race, you gotta pay more. It really comes down to that.

 

[Tevenor]

In addition, ldstang was not comparing SCCA to runnin at the dragstrip from what I read....his point was that not everyone can afford to do this SCCA shit.

Just so my tone is not misunderstood, here you go.......

And I am saying he is comparing FULL OUT PRO SCCA RACING TO FRIDAY NIGHT TEST-N-TUNE EVENTS....... <---- so you don't misunderstand my tone.

You can't compare the cost of dinner and a movie to get laid by a catholic schoolgirl to paying $1000 an hour at the Bunny Ranch. 2 entirely different situations.

The comparisons to a $200 educational lapping day (where no other costs are invovled) and a $35 Test-N-Tune is far more fair.

 

[ldstang50]

The comparisons to a $200 educational lapping day (where no other costs are invovled) and a $35 Test-N-Tune is far more fair.

Thats what I was trying to imply in my comparison.
I dont' know how to do the mulitple quote thing so you'll have to excuse me.
Thats just what they told me and thats why I got the package. I didnt' know any better.
The Novice Permit I am talking about, it actually states in here, "Get a Novice Permit. This permic, often called a logbook, allows you to enter an SCCA Driver's School and later, SCCA Regional Club Races." I understand the regional club races are usually at open tracks.
I'll probably make another post to ask questions and make statements, give me a minute i'm computer illiterate

 

[ldstang50]

There is no "Novice Permit" unless you are underage.
What region of the SCCA did you try to particpate in? Virginia area I am assuming? What is the name of hte local region?

Washington DC Region. Chuck Allard is the gu in charge or the contact
I am 23 so obviously not underage.

 

[Tevenor]

The Novice Permit I am talking about, it actually states in here, "Get a Novice Permit. This permic, often called a logbook, allows you to enter an SCCA Driver's School and later, SCCA Regional Club Races." I understand the regional club races are usually at open tracks.
I'll probably make another post to ask questions and make statements, give me a minute i'm computer illiterate

That is specific to Club Racing. It has absolutely zip to do with Autocrosses (SOLOII) events. The log book, drivers school and such are the roads you need to take to go from my version of Level 1, to Level 2, and then into Level 3.

My guess is you talked to a Road Race guy and didn't explain that you wanted to autocross.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

Thanks Martin for the up talk of Team Trinity. Much appreciated.

hey its my pleasure man, i know a good amount of TT and they are good people

damn i havent seen you guys in a long ass time though.

 

[Red97Eclipseboy]

Why do any of you care what people do? Who are you to judge them and say what they're doing is "killing" your hobby? This Import sceen gives it's self WAY too much credit. You guys are acting like posers and stupid clubs just came about because of a movie. Ask your parents if they were into cars when they were our age and see if people like that were around. They're never going to go away... ever. So whay waste your breath? Judging is a God-like act, not a DSM act. Get over it. Just telling the truth. Go ahead make fun of me. I may cry.
The Devils Advocate.

 

[leet]

Why do any of you care what people do? Who are you to judge them and say what they're doing is "killing" your hobby? This Import sceen gives it's self WAY too much credit. You guys are acting like posers and stupid clubs just came about because of a movie. Ask your parents if they were into cars when they were our age and see if people like that were around. They're never going to go away... ever. So whay waste your breath? Judging is a God-like act, not a DSM act. Get over it. Just telling the truth. Go ahead make fun of me. I may cry.
The Devils Advocate.

I think if you lived in CA, you would better understand why we are angered about it.

 

[ldstang50]

That is specific to Club Racing. It has absolutely zip to do with Autocrosses (SOLOII) events. The log book, drivers school and such are the roads you need to take to go from my version of Level 1, to Level 2, and then into Level 3.

My guess is you talked to a Road Race guy and didn't explain that you wanted to autocross.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. So if I understand correctly, I can show up or sign up to do and SCCA auto-x without being licensed. Now being licensed is different from being a member, correct? Do I need to be a member to auto-x with SCCA?

 

[Red97Eclipseboy]

I think if you lived in CA, you would better understand why we are angered about it.

What? Cali is the only state with stupid car clubs? Ok! They're all over the place. Maybe I should move to "So Cal" so I can get a ticket for a cat-back exhaust. By the way: I live in the Chicago suburbs. We have just as many nice rides, ### rides, and cool clubs and bad clubs as you do. You're not the only ones. We have many Skylines out here, too, Supra's, you name it. Actually, the world record holder for the most horse power on a stock bottem-end Supra lives here, too. He was on the cover of Turbo Magazine last Dec. But you're the only one's who have to deal with it.

 

[KPWSerpiente]

Damn kids, I won't lie and even pretend I read half of this.

LudaChris, I apologize that you don't understand how this works. If you don't understand that my JMU Intramural Soccer team is just as much of a Team as Real Madrid (minus the big paychecks, international games, and european groupies) then you don't know anything about people.*

I didn't think the proprieter of this website would need to start such a dumb discussion but I guess I would be wrong on that account.

-T









*I'm sorry but this explanation of my analogy is probably going to be needed for a few of you.

Whether you show up at an SCCA road course event, a local 1/4 mile midnight madness on a friday night, a small club sponsored autox in a school parking lot, or pole position at Indianapolis 500 if you show up with a group of people who's goal, through mutual support, is to do their best, you are a member of a team.

The level of competition does not dictate the validity of a team.

And I swear to god if anyone posts anything after this post I will personally deliver a bitchslapping next time I am in their hometown.

 

[ldstang50]

let me be the first to post this after travis
i'll post more later