Racing Teams and Crews... who joins this goofy shit?

[ldstang50]

Well now that I have posted right after you Travis, you gonna come and try to bitchslap me? I'd go ahead and take your balls, but you're 14yr old g/f took those from you 6yrs ago.
If you actually took the time to read the thread instead of being ignorant you can see where he was coming from and the understanding he had. I learned of different 'types' of teams and organizations in this thread. I also learned about SCCA (thanks boostinaz).
Luda recognizes us as a crew in his own definition. His interpretation of a team is not what we do, in his OPINION he thinks we qualify as a crew. If you want to see how I came up with that thought, READ THE FREAKING THREAD!

 

[LandoAWD]

Well now that I have posted right after you Travis, you gonna come and try to bitchslap me? I'd go ahead and take your balls, but you're 14yr old g/f took those from you 6yrs ago.

I'll bi*** slap the lot of you if this turns into a pissing contest as opposed to a discussion.

KPW- YOUR definition of "team" is valid to YOU. It might not be so to OTHERS. If I truly thought the sky was blue, and you told me it was green, what am I going to continue thinking? Imposing your beliefs on others because you believe them is a shitty practice in ALL aspects of life.

 

[Quasimondo]

Guys, SCCA isn't the end-all, be-all to ametur competition outside of drag racing. In recent years smaller sports clubs have popped up in reigonal areas as an alternative to the high costs of SCCA racing. I know in my area, there is the Westchester County Car Club which hosts autocross events in in the NY/NJ/CT area.

Another alternative is the Nat'l Auto Sport Association (NASA), which host competition events similar to SCCA has, plus for those who like to drive fast, but not neck in neck, they host a variety of Hipgh Performance Driving Events (HPDE) at big name racetracks (for me, that would be Pocono Raceway and Lime-Rock Park), and the cost is much lower than that of the SCCA. $35 to become a member, $50 to apply for either aprovisional license or a full license, and the HPDE entry fee is usually around $100. I know that may seem high when you compare it eo $35 at your favorite dragway, but when you consider that this is for anywhere from 3-5 45-minute sessions compared to 4 or 5 passes down the track, it doesn't hurt as much. They also have added time trials to the HPDE's so you can still be competitive against the clock.

For those who are in a car club/team/whatever this is the perfect place to get your competition on with entry fees costing as much as a urethane spoiler, UICP, or whatever low cost modification you've done to your car.

www.nasaproracing.com for more info.

 

[gsx rated98]

I'll bi*** slap the lot of you if this turns into a pissing contest as opposed to a discussion.

KPW- YOUR definition of "team" is valid to YOU. It might not be so to OTHERS. If I truly thought the sky was blue, and you told me it was green, what am I going to continue thinking? Imposing your beliefs on others because you believe them is a shitty practice in ALL aspects of life.

Lando Liam just didnt' appreciate the arrogance of Travis's post. And sense Liam and Travis live only an hour away Liam was putting Travis out.
Liam apologizes

 

[c5chris]

Im in a Corvette Club and we do the mod day, cruise and mountain runs associated with hi-performance cars.

I used to be in a DSM club, not anymore since everybody dumped their cars for newer and more reliable machinery.

 

[boostedinaz]

I learned of different 'types' of teams and organizations in this thread. I also learned about SCCA (thanks boostinaz).

As much as I would like to take credit for knowing so much on the SCCA that was all Tevenor. Im just a goofy guy with a neat title.

 

[KPWSerpiente]

KPW- YOUR definition of "team" is valid to YOU. It might not be so to OTHERS. If I truly thought the sky was blue, and you told me it was green, what am I going to continue thinking? Imposing your beliefs on others because you believe them is a shitty practice in ALL aspects of life.

No Lando. My definition of team is congruent with that of any dictionary. This is not a subjective definition or a judgement call and therefore no one's opinion needs ot be swayed. You either understand what the word team means, or you don't. If you know what the word means you wouldn't ever worry about how 'real' the racing a team is involved with is.

-T

 

[KiD_DSM115]

Before people get all defensive, just cool off and listen. This is just my opinion on how F&F screwed up our hobby.

Okay, I'll admit, when I was 13, I used to think car clubs were cool. A bunch of guys with similar cars getting together and hanging out - wow, like a brotherhood of some sort. Lucky for me I grew out of that phase before I got my license. What's with all these Racing Teams out there who don't even do any REAL racing? I don't see any of them participating in any legitimate racing events - no SCCA, no NHRA, no nothing. What's the point?

I always thought it was more about getting together and learning about how to make the car you own faster - joining clubs like Club DSM. It's one thing to get together with other DSM owners and learn about modding your car in a constructive environment. But what's with this poser crap? I guess I'm just getting older and can't understand the kids these days... spending what little money they do have on decals and visual accessories and joining Racing Teams instead of joining SCCA.

There may be a few exceptions, but I'm guessing that the really fast guys don't go around "reppin" Racing Teams or Crews. Can someone explain to me how we (as car enthusiasts) have let this get so big without telling kids how incredibly goofy they sound? It's become more about image than substance. How can we get more kids into Racing instead of Racing Teams?... get them to take high performance driving schools and find the REAL ways to get into racing and getting sponsored... I guess I'll begin work this month on doing my part by implementing a racing section on the site.

I do not intend to sound like a smartass. I am giving my opinion.

Why do kids think it's cool to smoke?.I am not saying that's bad...Same logic, growing up here in China-town, I have seen civics,integras,preludes, etc. I see crews. you can call it a phase
I just know that SOME people here...make crews to compete with other "street crews" over here. Some i said. We don't go into NHRA or any of that stuff. It is a "Street Thing"....
I mean no offense in this... Even though I'm not in a crew and I have a DSM, I wouldn't mind joining a crew nearby. People make money in crews, some don't. There are different reasons you can say for a crew. People grow up with each other as friends from childhood and they make crews becuase their good freinds and it might not make sense to YOU. who knows...


"I always thought it was more about getting together and learning about how to make the car you own faster "....................


Well that is what you thought and that is fine. Reality is there is Show and Go. Some people get together to talk about what might look good on their car. The term "Ricer" to me is played out, just becuase a car is all looks and no performance. They chose that route. I am sure if they wanted a "DSM" they would have gotten it instead of a MORE valued SI, GSR,ITR, etc. Crews not only have to be about performance, there are show crews out there.

I know this is now sliding a lilttle bit off topic with "ricers", but you know what I mean.

My opinion only, I mean not to offend anyone.

 

[Slipstream]

I guess my calling for people to go to the track is one of the first steps I'm taking in trying to "actively do something to make the scene better".

No actually creating a well moderated forum that focuses on education in all aspects of modifications was your first step.

I'm also planning a DSMtuners Driver Sponsorship program that will help out drivers who participate in real sanctioned racing events (like SCCA and NHRA).

Outstanding idea, as well as the new racing page.

I'm ready to start trying to make an impact on all the negativity that has been brought into our hobby - who else is ready?

A sad state of affairs that those who haven't created the negativity are the ones who have to step up to fix it. C'est La Vie. You're certainly doing your part and more, I hope you can inspire others to follow your example.

One suggestion I have is for all those "groups" out there who do not regularly go to the track or participate in sanctioned racing events is to change your group name if it has the term "racing" or "team" in it. You may think this is stupid, but believe me, properly describing what your car club is all about by choosing an accurate name will work wonders for what we're trying to do here. It will bring a little badly needed legitimacy back to our hobby. Because believe me, even though your "team" may be different from the majority who ruin our hobby, your club name tells people that you're part of that same crowd. Help everyone differentiate from the bad seeds, don't follow the same inaccurate naming scheme the "racers" use (the ones who don't race).

I couldn't agree more. Naming schemes are unfortuneately beyond our control, however differentiating legitimate competition groups (racing or show) is important. Since we can't control them (or rather our encouragement to pick more appropriate names would be laughed at) I think our best option would be to actively disassociate your common tuner, or legitimate group from those who have helped generate our wonderful reputation of street racing, mayhem, and the public's distaste for us.

I think an important step in reclaiming our hobby is to legitimize the base level of where we start. That would be modifying and tuning common vehicles...which being in california (as we both are) you know is outside the realm of the strictly legal. The image of the scene can't improve much (even if all the racing was legitimate and group names reflected what the group was about.) without the base of what we do being legal. This means educating our law makers (not an easy task, though it may be enjoyable to invite the entire california legislature to a meeting :laugh: ) From there I think we could move on to pushing those who enjoy modifying into legitimate ways of expressing their tuning prowess and driving skills. Creating associations for legitmate tuners and amatuer racers to help establish a clear demarcation line between the good seeds and the bad seeds. So that even when the bad seeds do make the news every other night, it doesn't reflect poorly on the hobby as a whole.

 

[LandoAWD]

No Lando. My definition of team is congruent with that of any dictionary.
-T

If you want to pull the "literal card", show me where automobiles are specifically mentioned. It is subjective, as is most of the English language.

team Audio pronunciation of "team" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tm)
n.

1. Sports & Games. A group on the same side, as in a game.
2. A group organized to work together: a team of engineers.
3.
1. Two or more draft animals used to pull a vehicle or farm implement.
2. A vehicle along with the animal or animals harnessed to it.
4. A group of animals exhibited or performing together, as horses at an equestrian show.
5. A brood or flock.
6. Obsolete. Offspring; lineage.

 

[ldstang50]

team n two or more draft animals harnessed to the same vehicle, that is def 1 in websters ninth new collegiate dictionary. def #4 a number of persons associated togther in work or activity.
*edit* damn it lando you beat me to it

 

[Ludachris]

but let's face it, there is gonna be "blurred" lines in this scene. And if one is gonna sit there and disect names of groups/teams or whatever you consider them, maybe one should re-calulate the worth of this argument and remind themselves.....OH YEAH, THERE'S MORE TO LIFE THAN CARS.

Nikki, this is a car forum and most of us are really into cars. I know there is more to life than cars, but this is forum where the top focus is cars, and thus, is the appropriate forum for such a debate. If you put little weight on this subject, that's fine. But please stop trying to undermine the people who would like to partake in this debate. We're not disecting anything, we're talking about misrepresentation here. You call a car club one thing, and it has nothing to do with what the name represents - that's all. There's no complicated scientific theory to it. We're trying to get people to stop blurring the lines and drawing negative attention to our hobby. Simple as that. We've already established the Team Trinity might be the exception to this debate, so please do not feel the need to defend your club any further.

Now if you're defending the people who call themselves "team xx racing" and do no racing, then please, continue your argument.

 

[Ludachris]

What? Cali is the only state with stupid car clubs? Ok! They're all over the place. Maybe I should move to "So Cal" so I can get a ticket for a cat-back exhaust. By the way: I live in the Chicago suburbs. We have just as many nice rides, ### rides, and cool clubs and bad clubs as you do. You're not the only ones. We have many Skylines out here, too, Supra's, you name it. Actually, the world record holder for the most horse power on a stock bottem-end Supra lives here, too. He was on the cover of Turbo Magazine last Dec. But you're the only one's who have to deal with it.

Let's not take things the wrong way or anything. We know the problems exist all over. The thing is, we're enduring a ton of backlash from local Cali law enforcement because of it. The stereotypes are getting pretty bad around here and it's becoming very annoying to own an import, especially with all of the smog laws - and I'm sure not many will argue that Cali has some of the most strict smog laws. I hear Florida is getting just as bad as Cali as of late. The point is, it's impacting our hobby negatively.

 

[Ludachris]

Damn kids, I won't lie and even pretend I read half of this.

LudaChris, I apologize that you don't understand how this works. If you don't understand that my JMU Intramural Soccer team is just as much of a Team as Real Madrid (minus the big paychecks, international games, and european groupies) then you don't know anything about people.*

I didn't think the proprieter of this website would need to start such a dumb discussion but I guess I would be wrong on that account.

-T

*I'm sorry but this explanation of my analogy is probably going to be needed for a few of you.

Whether you show up at an SCCA road course event, a local 1/4 mile midnight madness on a friday night, a small club sponsored autox in a school parking lot, or pole position at Indianapolis 500 if you show up with a group of people who's goal, through mutual support, is to do their best, you are a member of a team.

The level of competition does not dictate the validity of a team.

And I swear to god if anyone posts anything after this post I will personally deliver a bitchslapping next time I am in their hometown.

Well, you must have missed the half of the thread where I posted. Otherwise you would have noticed that I said nothing bad about those "teams" that actually go to a track and race. In fact, my whole point was how ridiculous it is to see "teams" that don't go to the track and race. I said multiple times that Team Trinity might be one of the few teams that actually go to the track and don't just use the term "team" in their name for image reasons. I really don't know how you missed that glaring point of this whole discussion. Starting a team solely to do street racing is downright irresponsible, so I won't even address that.

 

[Ludachris]

Guys, SCCA isn't the end-all, be-all to ametur competition outside of drag racing. In recent years smaller sports clubs have popped up in reigonal areas as an alternative to the high costs of SCCA racing. I know in my area, there is the Westchester County Car Club which hosts autocross events in in the NY/NJ/CT area.

Another alternative is the Nat'l Auto Sport Association (NASA), which host competition events similar to SCCA has, plus for those who like to drive fast, but not neck in neck, they host a variety of Hipgh Performance Driving Events (HPDE) at big name racetracks (for me, that would be Pocono Raceway and Lime-Rock Park), and the cost is much lower than that of the SCCA. $35 to become a member, $50 to apply for either aprovisional license or a full license, and the HPDE entry fee is usually around $100. I know that may seem high when you compare it eo $35 at your favorite dragway, but when you consider that this is for anywhere from 3-5 45-minute sessions compared to 4 or 5 passes down the track, it doesn't hurt as much. They also have added time trials to the HPDE's so you can still be competitive against the clock.

For those who are in a car club/team/whatever this is the perfect place to get your competition on with entry fees costing as much as a urethane spoiler, UICP, or whatever low cost modification you've done to your car.

www.nasaproracing.com for more info.

I don't think this discussion is about which association is best for sanctioned events. The point is that many of these so-called "racing teams" usually don't participate in any sanctioned events. Come on people, let's not get off topic here. Some people seem to be arguing about the wrong points.

 

[thekellbeast]

I know what you mean. My friend drives a riced out saturn, and is part of "Low Lyfe racers." I don't think he, or anyone in his racing team have ever raced. They all drive beat up pickups or POS shitbox cars. It's a total joke.

 

[Ludachris]

I think many people are starting to get off the subject here.

All I was trying to say here was, it seems a little ridiculous that people start up/join "Racing Teams" when:

A. They don't do any real racing.
B. It's all for an image.
C. The only type of racing they do is on the street.

Sure, the old cop-out has always been "to each his own". Well, when "his own" starts drawing more unwanted negative attention to "our" hobby, it becomes our problem. If you don't care much about racing, fine. Don't plaster racing stickers all over your car. If the only racing you do is on the street, fine. But don't go out and start up/join a racing team to glamorize street racing.

If you're going to plaster "Team xx Racing" all over your car, just do us all a favor and go to the track and race. Help people see that our scene isn't full of a bunch of posers who portray a "race" image, but don't actually race. If you prefer to be a poser, then hey, all we can do is hope you get bored, sell your car and buy a mini truck, and take the poser image with you. At least we might be able to get the non-posers headed in the right direction.

 

[crazyjoe]

I think many people are starting to get off the subject here.

All I was trying to say here was, it seems a little ridiculous that people start up/join "Racing Teams" when:

A. They don't do any real racing.
B. It's all for an image.
C. The only type of racing they do is on the street.

Sure, the old cop-out has always been "to each his own". Well, when "his own" starts drawing more unwanted negative attention to "our" hobby, it becomes our problem. If you don't care much about racing, fine. Don't plaster racing stickers all over your car. If the only racing you do is on the street, fine. But don't go out and start up/join a racing team to glamorize street racing.

If you're going to plaster "Team xx Racing" all over your car, just do us all a favor and go to the track and race. Help people see that our scene isn't full of a bunch of posers who portray a "race" image, but don't actually race. If you prefer to be a poser, then hey, all we can do is hope you get bored, sell your car and buy a mini truck, and take the poser image with you. At least we might be able to get the non-posers headed in the right direction.

I think you might be missing the bigger point here. The cops aren't cracking down on imports because people put big stickers on their car and then don't race. If y'all put big stickers on your car, went to races every now and then, and drove your car on the street, the import scene would still be getting the smack put down on them. Why? Because just the fact that you took your car to the track does not remove the fact that you are a gigantic moron (not you personally, the people who are already morons).

You got a big loud exhaust on there, or it's lowered really low, or it has a huge wing, or one of a million other reasons that draw attention to the cars that are commonly involved in street racing accidents and/or organized street racing. Do you honestly beleive that if all the people who weren't on a race team changed their club name to "Low Lyfe Auto Club" that the ones with real racing teams would stop being harassed? Of course not.

The things we can do as hobbyists to show that our hobby is not about getting people killed or polluting the environment or causing a disturbance at the local shopping mall is not to just try to get people to go to races and educate them on modifying cars....you need a full-scale PR campaign, whether it be hired professionally or at the grass-roots level.

I am not saying your rant has no validity to it, but it seems to have evolved into "If we could only get these racing teams to go to the track or stop calling themselves racing teams, the world woudl be so much better." I disagree, even though I hate posers and people misusing words as much as the next guy (hell, probably more).

 

[ldstang50]

I think many people are starting to get off the subject here.

All I was trying to say here was, it seems a little ridiculous that people start up/join "Racing Teams" when:

A. They don't do any real racing.
B. It's all for an image.
C. The only type of racing they do is on the street.

I think I got this point correct, not that I had it wrong before.
The above listed are the one's that bring a negative look to our community.
These are the one's most of us dont' like or appreciate.

 

[crankbender]

I am not going to add a lot here...most of you know where I stand on this. I will say however that for rules reasons (expecially in drag racing) many very serious people with very fast cars don't drag in national events. They do run at the track, do race seriously, and do know what they are doing. However, very rarely will you find these people with stickers all over their cars.

Just keep in mind that just because somebody doesn't compete in national events doesn't mean they don't compete, know what they are doing, and attempt to do it safely.

I will say that endangering people's lives like some do is :thumbdown . that's not here or there though.

 

[Defiant]

I know there is more to life than cars,

I've never heard such claptrap.

 

[boostedinaz]

I know there is more to life than cars

What??????

Next your gonna tell me that Santa isnt real.

 

[Ludachris]

I think you might be missing the bigger point here. The cops aren't cracking down on imports because people put big stickers on their car and then don't race. If y'all put big stickers on your car, went to races every now and then, and drove your car on the street, the import scene would still be getting the smack put down on them. Why? Because just the fact that you took your car to the track does not remove the fact that you are a gigantic moron (not you personally, the people who are already morons).

You got a big loud exhaust on there, or it's lowered really low, or it has a huge wing, or one of a million other reasons that draw attention to the cars that are commonly involved in street racing accidents and/or organized street racing. Do you honestly beleive that if all the people who weren't on a race team changed their club name to "Low Lyfe Auto Club" that the ones with real racing teams would stop being harassed? Of course not.

The things we can do as hobbyists to show that our hobby is not about getting people killed or polluting the environment or causing a disturbance at the local shopping mall is not to just try to get people to go to races and educate them on modifying cars....you need a full-scale PR campaign, whether it be hired professionally or at the grass-roots level.

I am not saying your rant has no validity to it, but it seems to have evolved into "If we could only get these racing teams to go to the track or stop calling themselves racing teams, the world woudl be so much better." I disagree, even though I hate posers and people misusing words as much as the next guy (hell, probably more).

I can agree with you to a certain extent. But if we start getting these kids more involved in real racing, the PR campaign has a better chance. I guess it comes down to this - some of us care about not bringing negative attention to our hobby, some don't. I think the racing teams draw too much negative attention. Everyone knows that most of them do all of their racing on the street, and thus, they've stereotyped the whole group. My rant hasn't really evolved, I've simply given my opinions on some solutions. The first is, go to the track to do your racing. The second is, stop portraying your club as a racing team if you don't race at the track. However, it would be better if you didn't call yourself a racing team period (or plaster your car with decals to "rep" you club), as there'd be a better chance that you wouldn't get grouped in with the idiots out there.

Honestly, I don't see anyone else out there offering up their own possible solutions to the problem. I'll be putting together a driver sponsorship program to help offer an incentive for the kids to get more into sanctioned racing. I've also built a racing page to help educate more people about getting into racing.

Maybe it's not worth wasting time and energy on?

 

[BOOstGhost]

not everyone has a track near by, i have 2 though

 

[98eclipseRS]

I can agree with you to a certain extent. But if we start getting these kids more involved in real racing, the PR campaign has a better chance. I guess it comes down to this - some of us care about not bringing negative attention to our hobby, some don't. I think the racing teams draw too much negative attention. Everyone knows that most of them do all of their racing on the street, and thus, they've stereotyped the whole group. My rant hasn't really evolved, I've simply given my opinions on some solutions. The first is, go to the track to do your racing. The second is, stop portraying your club as a racing team if you don't race at the track. However, it would be better if you didn't call yourself a racing team period (or plaster your car with decals to "rep" you club), as there'd be a better chance that you wouldn't get grouped in with the idiots out there.

Honestly, I don't see anyone else out there offering up their own possible solutions to the problem. I'll be putting together a driver sponsorship program to help offer an incentive for the kids to get more into sanctioned racing. I've also built a racing page to help educate more people about getting into racing.

Maybe it's not worth wasting time and energy on?

Chris, your last sentance sumed it all up. It really isn't worth wasting time and energy on. Sure you can change some of the enthusiasts but you will never change the majority. People got into the hobby because they thought it was or is "cool." You don't see going to the track as cool so noone is going to do it unless they really have a passion for motorsports. Second it seems recently that it isn't even about making the car perform better its about making the car APPEAR as if it performs better. Here is an example, I was on the way to a friends shop on thursday night to get my built tranny installed when I pull up to a stop light next to a civic hatch. At first when I saw it from behind I was like wow maybe this car is modified. Well, it was...but it wasn't modified to actual speed just to look like it goes fast. It had steelies up front(I am guessing to portray that he is rolling on slicks maybe I dunno ) rims in back, lowered, huge tach(even though it was automatic and had a tach already), and guess what a huge racing banner across the top. Hell, I couldn't even read what the words on it were because their crew tried to get all artsy and shit.

This, unfortuantely, is the new face of the modified import scene. Regardless of how many true import enthusiats get out there, there is still 100 more lining up to modify their car with pep boys parts to make it look fast. All you really have to do is go to the track to see the difference between domestic and import owners. Not only is there maybe 5 import owners for the 150 domestic owners there. You barely ever see a domestic with a racing banner or crew name attached to it, and if there is one there even the import owners talk trash about it. Its all just a faux image of speed, the cars you really have to look out for as being fast are the ones that are lowered, maybe have some rims, and aren't to loud.

The recent crackdown on import and the whole modified car scene in general will start to take it effects. I hardly ever see any real car enthusiats on the street anymore, and none of them race. The harder the law bites down the more the true enthusiats will get away. I just invested in probably the best mod I could ever buy, a second car so that mine can sit in the garage all day and I only have to drive it on the weekends sometimes when I feel like it. Eventually the minority(true enthusaits) will become the majority when one of two things happens. The two routes for the car community look like this 1.) the ricers will finally get sick and tired of being bothered by the cops and the scene will die down so that the real enthusaits will be the majority of those left. OR 2.) the ricers will get educated and become real enthusaits and there won't be such an insane issue with cops and the recent crackdown on car enthusiasts.

If it makes anyone feel better I have a couple of cop friends(older guys) who I was talking to this about the other day. He said that the cops really aren't as dumb as people make them out to be, they can tell the difference between a clean car(import or domestic) and the difference between these so called "street racers." However the only problem he pointed out was that in all actuality the majority of the idiots on the road are young kids in imports because they are cheap and affordable therefor some of the guys develope prejudices(sp?) and take it out on all imports wrong or not that's the truth so we will just have to deal with it.

Chris, I think its great that you are taking this initiative but don't expect big returns from it. Just look at this site, the members to members with timeslips ratio is rediculous. But, try if you must it might just change some people's minds, I know that becasue of the info you gave me about auto x I will be getting more into that next year as well as hitting the strip religously to test out the new set up.