Quick question about accessory belts.

[jrider]

I've done a search, but can't seem to come to a definitive conclusion.

I’ve had squeal from my belts for some time now. It would just happen every once in a while, mostly when it was cold- after I just started the engine. But it seems to be lasting much longer now.

I’m pretty sure I just need to replace my accessory belts; they haven’t been replaced in a long time. But I’m actually not really sure how many there are. From the looks of it, there are two belts on the driver’s side of the engine. Looks like alternator, and power steering. I’m gonna go ahead and replace both of those. But could someone please just clear this up for me:

1.How many accessory belts are there (ps, alternator, ac)?
2.Where are each of these located?
3.How can I tell if the belts are too loose? Are they supposed to have any give at all? They seem tight to me, but they do have a little play I guess.

By the way, I have a 97 Talon TSi.

 

[Pure92TSi]

You are correct there are two belts. Both on the driver's side right outside of the lower timing cover. The general rule of thumb I've always heard and used is the belt should only be able to move about a half an inch each way when you wiggle it. You might just need to tighten the alternator/water pump belt. They are pretty simple to replace. Just have to losen the alternater and the power steering pump. Takes all of 30 mins. Go ahead and replace them just for good measure. Pretty cheap to do and a good idea. Good luck.

 

[tibby_boy]

1. you have two accessory belts. one for ac and ps, the other for water pump and alternator.
2. well both connect with the crank, so the side with the cams. driver side to clear up.
3. just by moving them to see if they have enough tension, but the way you describe them they seem to have good tension.
hope that answers a few things you need.

 

[jrider]

Thanks for the quick replies guys! I think I'm gonna just go ahead and replace both of them. Hopefully it won't be too hard. The last belt I replaced was my girlfriend's alternator belt on her 89 Ford Tempo on the side of the road . Where would be the best/cheapest place to find these belts?

 

[tibby_boy]

napa or autozone, probably. if you want oem go to a mitsu dealership because the stores carry same belts just different brands. really oem timing belt is the only oem one you should use but you don't need that. so good luck.

 

[andytalon]

To check the tension look on pic. Refer to repair manual for specs(Keep the ruler at a 90' angle to the straight edge.)

 

[Defiant]

I’ve had squeal from my belts for some time now. It would just happen every once in a while, mostly when it was cold- after I just started the engine. But it seems to be lasting much longer now.

It's not your belts. Your harmonic balancer is blown.

 

[CCR17Darcy]

I had something simular to this happening with my car. I had the sqealing belts, and a more frightening "rubbing" sound coming from that area. I was taking her to my mechanic when the water pump siezed, kicking off the alternator belt, and stopped the PS from working. The middle pully was incredibly loose (could wiggle freely with a bare hand), which is why my alternator belt fell off. Luckily I was on a slow road, so the loss of PS didn't really do to much. Got the car towed to the shop and as it turns out, the rubbing sound was coming from my timing belt tensioner, which was doing some funky stuff.

Long story short, doing a total timing belt change (all pullies, tensioners, and all 3 belts) and should have the car back in another day or two. Can't wait to have my baby back... that's for sure.

When was the last time you had your belts changed??

-Andy

 

[OddNotion]

Defiant is probably correct. I've been battling this problem for some time with my 4g64. The Crankshaft Harmonic Damper Pulley that both belts connect to is probably bad. The inner hub of the pulley and outer hub that the belts ride on is separated by a rubber ring. Eventually, as in my case, the two will start to slip and make all kinds of interesting things happen.

Try checking with a flashlight, when you first start your car while it's cold, for lateral pulley movement. Look down between the water pump and power steering and keep the edge of the crank pulley in line with the others. Mine was moving back and forth almost a quarter of an inch! When I finally removed it, the two pieces literally fell apart in my hands.

You will have to buy a new pulley for $90. While at it, get the ARP bolts for it too. I snapped one of my oem's reintalling them with the wrong torque wrench (but why not upgrade while the engine is lowered?) I suppose you could go with a solid underdrive pulley, but so many people seem to discourage getting rid of the damper.


Keep one thing in mind: I still seem to have a belt problem. I went for a few months with no squealing or breakage, but it seems that my power steering or water pump has something wrong with it. My power steering belt became loose either from wear or from the pump itself sliding back in its mounts. I will be replacing both pumps as soon as possible. I'll post what i learn.

Good Luck

 

[jrider]

I really don't think it's the Harmonic Balancer (could be though). I had that replaced a couple years ago when I was hearing some weird noises in that area. I think I might be leaking some oil (I looked last night) down near the belts. This might be causing the already loose belts to slip. I've also noticed that now when I start the car, I get the squeel for a good 5-10 seconds before it goes away. Then, when I start to drive the car, for about the first 3 minutes when I accelerate the squeeling will start up again; then quiet after I stop accelerating.

 

[tsi4tmo]

I just replaced my Harmonic Balance on my 91 TSi and the silence is great.I have replaced mine three times on two differant DSM's I was told by a very knowledgeble DSM'r that they only really last about a year.
I can actually hear the turbo spooling agian. I don't know about the 2g's but I had to order mine special from the dealership. It was originally $129.XX thankfully I know the parts manager and got it for $84 . Good luck with the fix.

 

[daveyfx]

I really don't think it's the Harmonic Balancer (could be though). I had that replaced a couple years ago when I was hearing some weird noises in that area. I think I might be leaking some oil (I looked last night) down near the belts. This might be causing the already loose belts to slip. I've also noticed that now when I start the car, I get the squeel for a good 5-10 seconds before it goes away. Then, when I start to drive the car, for about the first 3 minutes when I accelerate the squeeling will start up again; then quiet after I stop accelerating.

If you're leaking any type of fluid on to the belts, then obviously they will slip and cause the short-term squealing on startup. I would get the leak cleaned up first and foremost.

It could just be a tension problem with the belts. In colder weather, the belts tend to acquire some slack. You should check their tension by pressing down on the section of the belt that is about the halfway mark between the pullies. If there is more than a half an inch of 'give,' then you should tighten the slack.

Once you rule out the belt slip issue then it's probably safe to say your balancer crapped out on you.

Good luck.

 

[oldman]

Got the car towed to the shop and as it turns out, the rubbing sound was coming from my timing belt tensioner, which was doing some funky stuff.

I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense, how exactly does a timing belt auto tensioner make A rubbing sound? Did they remove all the drive belts, pullies and the lower timing belt cover to find this out? I suspect it was the crank pulley like Defiant said, the shop told you what they told you because it was a $700 vs. a $150 job.

 

[CCR17Darcy]

I suspect it was the crank pulley like Defiant said, the shop told you what they told you because it was a $700 vs. a $150 job.

If that's the case then I feel like a horses arse. But (according to them) they removed the outer belts, and still heard the noise. I don't really know to much about the tensioner, but apperently there's a part of the tensioner that was moving around alot, which was making the noise. Needless to say, I have pleanty to learn about the 4g63. The water pump and harmonic balancer pully were both shot anyways, so the repair job was already going to be expensive.

Either way, I really hope these guys wouldn't try to rip me off, as they are a sponser of this site.

Eventually, I hope to make this car a project car, and have a garage I can do all the work myself, but for now, I don't have a garage, tools, or know-how to do any of this stuff yet. So I'm at the mercy of mechanics.

If anyone knows a good DSM shop in the Westchester, NY area, please let me know, as I am always in need of a reliable, trust worthy shop.

 

[OddNotion]

I had exactly the same symptoms you are describing jrider. They only went away when the pulley was replaced. My car would squeal when started (usually when it was cold) and would sqeual like crazy as you accelerate. If you put in the clutch for a second and revved the engine for a sec, the squealing would stop when you released the clutch. Occasionally it would squeal while just driving along. I ignored it and sped up which is when the belt said "screw this" and disintegrated. The power steering belt was fine. Using the AC usually instigated squealing.

You really have to get in there and observe the pulley while idling. It's also imperative to try and wiggle the Damper Pulley with the engine off. You'll need to remove the splash guard of course, but if you can wiggle it it's time for a new one, regardless of age. They just don't last. Too bad Fluidampr doesn't make one for us......

 

[jastermerrel]

CCR17Darcy, it could have very well been the tensioner PULLEY that was squelling. So don't feel like such an arse

As for the original poster, just follow the advice about fixing any leaks that might be getting onto the belts and just tighten them up. It isn't really hard to do at all. Pick up a repair manual if you need to. Its good to have one anyway. My harmonic dampener pulley went out. Didn't make a noise though, it just seperated and slung the belts off. I replaced it with a solid aftermarket pulley. You'll get all kinds of conflicting responses on wether or not you should go with an aftermarket pulley. I've had no problems at all after 2 years, but again that is just my experience. As the belts age, they will stretch more and more so periodic tightening will be needed. Check the belts for wear and cracks and replace them if necessary.

 

[jepherz]

The tensioner pulley is known as the "timing belt tensioner." The other piece you're thinking of is the "timing belt auto-tensioner."

 

[project15]

i got a timing belt change along with the accessory belts changed in the summer. the belts started squeeking when it got cold outside. I tightened the belts and the squeeking went away. could be your problem too.