Question about running no heater core

[EclipseOwner95]

Basically I'm interested in hearing from any other members who have deleted their heater cores, and their lines. (Not just loop them, actually blocking them off at the thermostat housing).

To the people who have, do you just run a stock thermostat without any issues?

Reason I'm asking is a friend of mine who blocked his lines off and tried to run a stock thermostat lost 3 water pumps in a short ammount of time and deemed that the problem was the excessive pressure in the cooling system when the thermostat is closed. ( I have no proof of this, just what he deemed was the problem)

Under normal conditions the coolant would flow into the heater lines and throughout the heater core, without that relief, theres no where for the coolant to go, causing the seal in the water pump to fail.

His solution to the problem was to take a stock thermostat, and cut out the majority of the thermostat to allow flow at all times, but not quite as much as removing the thermostat completely. (After this he stopped losing water pumps)

I'm actually using this modified thermostat in my car as well out of fear of having the same problem, but during cruising conditions my coolant temp is only around 150* and I'd like to change that.

Sorry for the long winded post, but essentially do you think that he was right in his thinking/causes for the water pump problems? Or are their members on here with deleted heater core/lines that run stock T-stats without any issues?

Thank you.

 

[Sebba]

I've looped many heater core lines before, but never blocked them off for fear of exactly that.

Why didn't he just loop them like everyone else?

 

[EclipseOwner95]

I've looped many heater core lines before, but never blocked them off for fear of exactly that.

Why didn't he just loop them like everyone else?

I didn't loop mine either. It looks like ass to be completely honest. And just 1 more place for it to leak. Here is what my T-stat housing looks like. I'd like to keep it that way.

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And I'm sure " Shop cars " don't have looped heater core lines. I'd just like to assume there is a way around it.

 

[Sebba]

Fair enough.

 

[2slow4utsi]

I'm wondering the same thing about my 2g. I have read that people loop the lines and have no problems but I don't want to be ripping through water pumps.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Most engines have a coolant bypass hose, that allows coolant to circulate through the block and head when the thermostat is closed. Without that flow, the engine will build exessive heat (hot spots) in the cylinder head, which will lead to failures. If all that was damaged was the water pump, I would consider that lucky.

From what I can tell by examining the 4g63 cooling system, there is no bypass. The system relies on the flow through the heater core for that.

Conclusion: Blocking the lines is not a good idea at all.

 

[2slow4utsi]

Most engines have a coolant bypass hose, that allows coolant to circulate through the block and head when the thermostat is closed. Without that flow, the engine will build exessive heat (hot spots) in the cylinder head, which will lead to failures. If all that was damaged was the water pump, I would consider that lucky.

From what I can tell by examining the 4g63 cooling system, there is no bypass. The system relies on the flow through the heater core for that.

Conclusion: Blocking the lines is not a good idea at all.

Well the heater core is yanked and gone. You can't tell me no one runs around without a heater core in their car. There has to be a way to solve the problem.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

I never said you need the heater core, but on a 1g I really think you should loop the hoses rather than block your only coolant bypass.

That being said, I really don't give a damn what you do, I was just trying to save you some grief.

My college major was auto tech, and I've been a professional tech since 1988, so I'm not just talking out of my ass here.

 

[H@xtGSX]

Loop with a pressure regulator in the line? I don't know exactly how you'd plumb it, but maybe a relief valve off of a water heater or something similar might help... Have it vent to another small tank connected to the resevoir tank? I don't know how that would work without possibly losing coolant, but if the relief tank was vented and fed the main coolant tank, the system should pull it back into circulation when the pressure lowers. It works in my head.... I don't know how well it'd work in reality.

Not sure if that really is any different than looping it either...

 

[2slow4utsi]

I never said you need the heater core, but on a 1g I really think you should loop the hoses rather than block your only coolant bypass.

That being said, I really don't give a damn what you do, I was just trying to save you some grief.

My college major was auto tech, and I've been a professional tech since 1988, so I'm not just talking out of my ass here.

I never said you were talking out of your ass!

So on a 2g would you suggest the same thing? I'm not sure why big power cars/track cars haven't commented yet on what they have done. I can't imagine many big power cars running heater cores but then again I could be wrong. Either way, I don't have nor want mine.

 

[EclipseOwner95]

Loop with a pressure regulator in the line? I don't know exactly how you'd plumb it, but maybe a relief valve off of a water heater or something similar might help... Have it vent to another small tank connected to the resevoir tank? I don't know how that would work without possibly losing coolant, but if the relief tank was vented and fed the main coolant tank, the system should pull it back into circulation when the pressure lowers. It works in my head.... I don't know how well it'd work in reality.

That completely defeats the purpose of trying to delete the heater hoses.

The reason I removed mine was to remove clutter and useless junk from the motor bay.

I'm hoping some big power guys happen to stumble across this and add some insight. I just can't see shop cars/heavily modded cars having a looped coolant lines, but I may be wrong.

If I don't get a sure fire answer from here I'll probably just go round 2 with cutting up the stock thermostat, this time with a smaller hole.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

The coolant pipe is totally different on a 2g 7bolt. It may have an internal bypass, in fact I'm pretty sure it does.

The fact is, all cooling systems have a bypass of some sort. The reason is, you have to allow the coolant to flow through the system. Even when it isn't flowining through the radiator to be cooled, it has to be allowed to move/circulate through the block and head.

 

[2slow4utsi]

The coolant pipe is totally different on a 2g 7bolt. It may have an internal bypass, in fact I'm pretty sure it does.

The fact is, all cooling systems have a bypass of some sort. The reason is, you have to allow the coolant to flow through the system, even when it isn't flowining through the radiator to be cooled, it has to be allowed to move/circulate through the block and head.

It's a 6 bolt swap. I'll wait and see what others have done or copy the original posters design. Someone has to have a solution.

 

[EclipseOwner95]

Anyone else?

 

[wvturbo2]

My heater core was leaking, so we completely removed everything the thermostat housing was blocked off for a year or so without any problems. The housing got welded up and has been like that for a year still no problems.

 

[91stocker]

Anyone else?

Check out post #15 of this thread. Really cleaned up the tstat pretty nice.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm...sx-baby-beast-2-3l-hx40-wire-tucked-auto.html

 

[estoyaqui30]

That completely defeats the purpose of trying to delete the heater hoses.

The reason I removed mine was to remove clutter and useless junk from the motor bay.

I'm hoping some big power guys happen to stumble across this and add some insight. I just can't see shop cars/heavily modded cars having a looped coolant lines, but I may be wrong.

If I don't get a sure fire answer from here I'll probably just go round 2 with cutting up the stock thermostat, this time with a smaller hole.

I am fairly sure that a lot of the "big power cars" as in shop cars are track only cars and don't run coolant at all. I have seen a lot of track cars that have the block "blocked" filled to become solid.

 

[EclipseOwner95]

Check out post #15 of this thread. Really cleaned up the tstat pretty nice.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm...sx-baby-beast-2-3l-hx40-wire-tucked-auto.html

I appreciate your post but what exactly does that have to do with what I'm asking?

I am fairly sure that a lot of the "big power cars" as in shop cars are track only cars and don't run coolant at all. I have seen a lot of track cars that have the block "blocked" filled to become solid.

Yeah I've seen big power cars that are " hard blocked " but I'd assume there are some that still run coolant.

 

[talonalex92]

Ive never had a problem with looped lines, or none at all...I really am not comprehending where you would think that there would be one.

 

[EclipseOwner95]

Ive never had a problem with looped lines, or none at all...I really am not comprehending where you would think that there would be one.

It's a pretty simple concept.

Picture a closed coolant system, with no heater core or lines. When the engine is cold, the thermostat is closed obviously. Now there's a water pump trying to circulate water through the cooling system. It gets to the closed thermostat, and there's no where for the coolant to go, so it builds up pressure, and blows out the seals in the water pump.

The section of the water pipe that runs towards the back of the car is also cut off and welded prior to it making the 90* turn from the front of the engine, which may play a roll in it as well though I can't be positive.

The thermostat does have a small relief hole in it, but no where near enough to relieve the amount of pressure the water pump is creating.

Like I mentioned previously, as have others, my friend lost 3 water pumps within a months time conveniently right after he blocked off the heater core lines, I'd like to say that's not a coincidence.

Now there's 2 people in here yourself included that say they have had no issues with them blocked, running a stock thermostat. I'm glad to see that, but I'd like to see more people's experience before drawing a conclusion.

 

[H@xtGSX]

So... Like I said, why not install a pressure regulated bypass. Nevermind the tank or the rest of the crap I mentioned. Why not treat it the same way you would fuel pressure, and recirculate it with a bypass line with a regulator on it from behind the t-stat to main line?

I do actually know exactly what you are trying to fix and why, because I have had the same problem after a failed heater core... I think the looped lines is a bandaid, so regulating pre- and post thermo is the only thing I have thought of. I have a new core now though, so this is a distant problem I am not being nearly as critical of. Take what I say for what it's worth, based on that.

 

[EclipseOwner95]

So... Like I said, why not install a pressure regulated bypass. Nevermind the tank or the rest of the crap I mentioned. Why not treat it the same way you would fuel pressure, and recirculate it with a bypass line with a regulator on it from behind the t-stat to main line?

Because the goal is to remove things from the engine bay, not add them, nor add complexity to the cooling system. Not to mention having to fabricate suggested item(s).

 

[2slow4utsi]

So... Like I said, why not install a pressure regulated bypass. Nevermind the tank or the rest of the crap I mentioned. Why not treat it the same way you would fuel pressure, and recirculate it with a bypass line with a regulator on it from behind the t-stat to main line?

We're just waiting for those who don't run a heater core to respond. We're not really looking for theories/what might work. Your input is appreciated though.

 

[H@xtGSX]

I understand that. The physics back the theory though.

I hope you get an experienced response, otherwise theories is what you're operating on. I'm not talking about adding anything that weighs a lot. I understand WHY you are doing what you are doing, there are just always hidden problems unique to your car you will have to solve independently. I haven't heard of anyone else having the exact same problem, and I have been dragging cars for a while...

 

[talonalex92]

And are the heater hoses on opposite sides of the thermostat?

And providing they are, you can still block them off and drill holes around the perimeter of the stat, and do some math to figure out how much are the 3/8ths hose has, or whatever size and divide it up to evenly plotted holes. It will do the same thing.