Problems....Endless Problems

[Orangeeclipsers]

Hello I am new to this forum and I have been a long time viewer. I own a Pearl orange bad ass 2g dsm and I have had it for 9 years. It has been sitting for a while But I never gave up and finally got it fixed....so I thought. Long story short I have been over 4,000 grand on this car since I first put the new motor in that was about 2009. Since 2009 I have bought new parts, towed to every shop in my area paying top dollar for labor, towing and towing and towing and still I go to start this POS this morning and it will not start. It's a non turbo and I keep seem to realize how a all-motor car can be so complex and shitty.

Excuse the rant.... 2009 was when I got a new motor put in there since then I have:

New timing belt
New valve cover gasket
endless amount of spark plugs I can't even guess how many I bought
wires, oil change, gas cleaner fuel injector cleaner
new tires
towing and towing
paying for labor for shops to work on the car
new PCM after PCM after PCM
And most recently latterly and the past month up to this morning
new spark plugs
camshaft senor
crankshaft sensor
gas cleaner
fuel injector cleaner
Pcm
fuel filter
new fuel injector
fuel pump

I am so fed up I am about to give up on my dsm dreams I want to turbo this car and make 400hp ( with supporting mods of course Trust I know and seen it all from 8 sec dsms to 0-60 in 2.8 sec evo's)
I have made want to turn this shit box into a beast but I just can't get it running again.

I eventually what to do an awd conversion and evo 8 swap but I really need some help figuring out WHY THIS CAR WON'T WORK.

The shops I have taken this car to are
RC hill mitsbishi
Meinke
s&e automotive
and another shop in orange city fl that I can't remember

Honestly I love this car it is so BAD ASS pearl orange chrome rims chrome style tail lights turbo spoiler Brand new AEM cold air intake forgot to mention that. I m piss poor emotionally and just tired is there any hop for this car before I do the unthinkable and trade it or sell it?

 

[StarFawkes]

This guy can't be serious...

So far you've told us that fuel doesn't shoot out of your fuel rail. Does your car even crank?

 

[Orangeeclipsers]

Long story short i have spent alot of money on this car and mechanics have done countless dia'os

As of right now if i left work and tried to start my car it would turn over ....but will....not start.......i can press a button on the fuel to see if there is any fuel to the fuel rail...what going to happen is i'm going to keep suffering until something give either the car or me.

 

[StarFawkes]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/mai...rting-issues-no-doesnt-wont-start-merged.html

 

[Mischif]

So you have a basically brand new fuel pump, but aren't getting fuel to the rail and can't figure it out. This is pretty easy stuff to trouble shot, especially since its a 420 and the fuel pump is suppose to be on whenever the key is on.

Step one, turn your key to on.
Step two, stick your head under the car and listen for the pump in fuel tank.
If you hear nothing then proceed to step three.
Step three, unhook the wires from fuel pump and test the ground and power wire.
If the ground is bad, reground the wire. If there is no power proceed to step four.
Step four, test your fuel pump relay
If your fuel pump relay tests good proceed to step five.
Step five, jump your fuel pump relay harness between the power and power output.
If that works proceed to step six, if it doesn't work then perform a fuel pump rewire using a new 12volt switched signal source.
Step six, test the signal and ground for the fuel pump relay harness.

Outcome, problem solved.

 

[Orangeeclipsers]

I haven't read the last two post but before i do ....again thank for your time and consideration and competence.

 

[boost97gst]

Nice simple way to sum it up mischif. I told him to listen for his pump about 20 posts up but OP seems not to read everything. Just sit in the car, quietly, maybe even pop the back seat up so you can DEF hear it. Turn ign to "ON" postition and you will know immediately if your pump is working.

Then follow mischifs simple guide.

*It should prime for about 2 seconds, maybe a bit less/more.

 

[spyderdrifter]

If the pump is new, and it primes, if checked, good chance the fuel filter can be clogged.

 

[Orangeeclipsers]

here is a question, why am i losing my fuel pressure you think i should replace a part that is appearing to be OK but is failing at times like the fuel pump relay( it could work and then not work ?????)

does anyone know of any other reason why i'm losing fuel pressure when i have a new fuel pump and all this stuff to insure proper fuel pressure but i keep losing it.

Nice simple way to sum it up mischif. I told him to listen for his pump about 20 posts up but OP seems not to read everything. Just sit in the car, quietly, maybe even pop the back seat up so you can DEF hear it. Turn ign to "ON" postition and you will know immediately if your pump is working.

Then follow mischifs simple guide.

*It should prime for about 2 seconds, maybe a bit less/more.




I'm at work in holly hill and i live in lake helen i work from 8 am to 5 pm it's 4:15 boost97gst

 

[spyderdrifter]

Unlike the 4g63 engine, your 420a fuel rail has an adapter on it to hook up a fuel pressure test gauge. That would be a great place to start for figuring out what's wrong with the fuel system. I'll have to look in the manuals, but it's fairly easy to do if you have the gauge and an extra set of hands.

Why you are loosing fuel pressure, can better be determined once you do this test.

 

[Orangeeclipsers]

Well the pump works I can clearly hear it hmmmm, but there is no fuel shooting out of the valve on the fuel rail which tells me that there is none or not enough fuel reaching the rail for it to start. Good news is the shop that I took the car to has agreed to tow the car free of charge and redo what they did in order to get the car fixed.

If the car works and it stays that way I am going to put the car thru another full tune up from the Haynes manual and building the tuning process.

I have wanted this for a long time and I might just have it right this time

I'll post some pics of my car in like a few

 

[boost97gst]

Good, now you know its most likely the filter. Make sure the pump sock isnt clogged. Prob filter though. You can easily fix this on your own if someone wants to charge you. Itll cost roughly 15 bucks and a little time. Crowfoot wrenches made getting the filter off much easier on my gst, not sure if the 420a is the same but its probably similar.

 

[turbobird14]

So you have a basically brand new fuel pump, but aren't getting fuel to the rail and can't figure it out. This is pretty easy stuff to trouble shot, especially since its a 420 and the fuel pump is suppose to be on whenever the key is on.

Step one, turn your key to on.
Step two, stick your head under the car and listen for the pump in fuel tank.
If you hear nothing then proceed to step three.
Step three, unhook the wires from fuel pump and test the ground and power wire.
If the ground is bad, reground the wire. If there is no power proceed to step four.
Step four, test your fuel pump relay
If your fuel pump relay tests good proceed to step five.
Step five, jump your fuel pump relay harness between the power and power output.
If that works proceed to step six, if it doesn't work then perform a fuel pump rewire using a new 12volt switched signal source.
Step six, test the signal and ground for the fuel pump relay harness.

Outcome, problem solved.

This is gonna look like Spanish to him, unless he speaks Spanish and then it will look like ancient Hebrew.

Step one:
Turn the key to ON - this is the click right before your car would crank over. While Vehicle is on - turn off radio, heater/AC (the knob that works the fan), windshield wipers, and anything else that makes noise. Shut all the doors as well.

Step two:
Turn Vehicle Off

Step three:
Repeat Step one and turn vehicle to the ON position again.

Step Four:
During step three, listen for a high pitched whine noise for about 3-5 seconds after you turn the key to ON coming from around the rear seat area. If the noise goes away after a few seconds.....this is a good thing. This is the fuel pump cycling the fuel into the push button thingy in the engine bay (this is a fuel pressure port on your fuel rail which allows you to hook a gauge up to read the fuel pressure)

IF YOU HEAR THE NOISE:
push the button and see if fuel ejaculates all over your body and engine.
- If YES: You have fuel being pumped to the proper area

- If NO: You have some sort of restriction from the fuel pump to your fuel checker button thingy.

IF YOU DO NOT HEAR THE NOISE
- your fuel pump is not getting power.

Lets start there and ease you into this. We all needed our hands held and guidance along the way at one point. The best thing to do is just put on some shitty clothes and get dirty.

And to reference your "Should i fix this or turn it into a project?" I would fix this as you have stated that this vehicle is your means of transportation and this is what my "project" car still looks like after 7 years in the garage with a fresh paint job:

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Wow my cpu takes a long time for this post to refresh.... now I feel like the idiot. Glad we have made some headway!!

 

[spyderdrifter]

^^ Your directional tires are backwards ^^^
The tread should face the other way. Nice color though.

 

[turbobird14]

^^ Your directional tires are backwards ^^^
The tread should face the other way. Nice color though.

Haha! Yeah i know, my painter just slapped them on real quick to move the car around when i took the picture. Those rims/tires are long gone! But thanks!!! Look for a project log really soon.

 

[Roberti 2G]

Sell it. 420a is a gas saver not a hp freak. Buy a gst or gsx and save yourself a lot of money.

 

[Orangeeclipsers]

try to understand Robert i love this car and my income is not that high at the moment because i am just starting as a draftsman. So i will be building the 420a and putting an eBay turbo kit on there once i figure out this fuel pressure problem.

 

[BurrowZ]

try to understand Robert i love this car and my income is not that high at the moment because i am just starting as a draftsman. So i will be building the 420a and putting an eBay turbo kit on there once i figure out this fuel pressure problem.

If your income is not that high, don't continue with this car with your eventual plans. Is the sentimental value really worth the incredible headache and money of paying a shop to install a cheap bolt-on kit that will more than likely blow your car up?

I'm sorry I'm coming off this way, but for the things you say and claiming to know everything inside and out you sure do say a lot of things that somebody who really did "know it all" wouldn't. (i.e. eBay turbo kit?)

Also think about this. What happens when you dump tens of thousands of dollars into your car to make it unique, you go out cruising one night, a drunk bastard runs a red light and completely destroys your pride and joy with twelve beers and a deer guard?

I'm trying to bring you down to earth, not crush your dreams.

 

[boost97gst]

Sell it. 420a is a gas saver not a hp freak. Buy a gst or gsx and save yourself a lot of money.

Thats not helpful. OP has what he has and likes it. People could tell us to buy gsx's, catch my drift?





OP: I agree iwth above. You are sounding misguided and darting all over the place. Try and stay focused on the immediate problem at hand and for gods sake, dont put any ebay turbo kit on your car if you care about it as much as you say. Turboing the 420a properly takes time, knowledge(plenty of that), and money.
Just get her up n running, dont beat the piss out of it, and read read read. You need to do a lot of research my friend

 

[Orangeeclipsers]

I have a detailed mod list to fit my finances in stages

mod list for turbo kit ( I don't have my list with because i am at work)

je pistons
eagle rods
arp head studs
safc11
jdm turbo kit(new gaskets for turbo kit
exhaust
machine work on block
pay a shop to put it on
guages

if you think this is a bad route what do you suggest, i don't want to end up with anything under 400whp

 

[Bergness08]

I don't see a clutch anywhere in that list? Can the 420a trans support 400whp?

 

[Orangeeclipsers]

A stock 420a has enough to support 200hp

but i want o use competition clutch series.

(I AM AT WORK AND DONT HAVE MY MOD LIST WITH ME SO I DONT HAVE EVERY PART I WANT NOR IS IT IN ORDER.....ITS AT MY HOUSE)

I will put my mod list on here just for you guys to see when i get home thanks for your responses.

 

[greydelta38]

I have a detailed mod list to fit my finances in stages

mod list for turbo kit ( I don't have my list with because i am at work)

je pistons
eagle rods
arp head studs
safc11
jdm turbo kit(new gaskets for turbo kit
exhaust
machine work on block
pay a shop to put it on
guages

if you think this is a bad route what do you suggest, i don't want to end up with anything under 400whp

There's your problems. First, it's gonna be hella expensive to pay a shop for that. You said yourself that you know these cars in and out, why don't you do it yourself? Save TONS of money, and it's not like the car is your daily because it doesn't run anyway. No loss.

Second, 400whp on a 420a is... dangerous. I hope you have a deeper wallet than you say you do. I honestly think that you should save the shell and interior, sell the motor that's giving you so much trouble, and buy a built 4g63 to play with.

Whether you take my advice or not, good luck with it.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Whats a JDM turbo kit? Snag that off ebay? You sont see the 8second dsms that you have been watching with a godspeed turbo .

420A is the most powerful 4 cyl in the world is it not? Lol

I guess you like paying top dollar for labor eh?

You habe all these dreams ov evo8 swap and turbo yet you can't even work on the car yourself??? You probably will be able to buy a new evox with what you have been literally throwing in the garbage..

 

[greydelta38]

Whats a JDM turbo kit? Snag that off ebay?

420A is the most powerful 4 cyl in the world is it not? Lol

I guess you like paying top dollar for labor eh?

You habe all these dreams ov evo8 swap and turbo yet you can't even work on the car yourself??? You probably will be able to buy a new evox with what you have been literally throwing in the garbage..

That's exactly what I was wondering... well, it's not MY money.

 

[boost97gst]

I have been trying to justify this guys actions but i cant see it. he WAS talking about evo swaps and now were at 420 T conversion? I understand having money invested and not throwing it away, thats why there are guys willing to do fwd-awd swaps. But this is sounding ridiculous. First off, start a new thread in the 420a section. Next, get car running first, then plan the build. You need to learn MSnS, i think thats what most of the guys are using over there.

OP: How much do you really have invested? If its 5,000 or less i say ditch it and buy a 1g or 2g awd.