Problems after 2G brake install

[smills1840]

Hey everyone,

Just bought a set of rotors and pads off eBay from this link http://www.ebay.com/itm/400733458061?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I installed everything, and as soon as I rolled it out of my garage I could tell something wasn't right. The brakes almost felt like they were locked up. I immediately put it back up on jack stands and saw the front driver side rotor has a pretty bad scratch all the way around.

I discovered that one of the metal tabs on the pad spring(?) was touching the rotor. I bent it back, but then realized that the caliper was sitting too close to the rotor all together. It wasn't like this on the passenger side. I shimmed the caliper so that everything is centered.

I put everything back together and bled everything in this order: Passenger Rear, Driver Rear, Passenger Front, Driver Front and went up the street slowly. My pedal has always been soft and gone to the floor way too easy, so I figured bleeding would help that. It didn't though. The pedal felt the same as it always has, and the car seemed to stop worse than before.

I decided to bleed the brakes again, this time using a vacuum bleeder pump. I used the same order, and also flushed the brake fluid. However, when I went to test the brakes this time, the pedal pulses badly and when coasting the steering wheel shakes back and forth. I didn't touch the caliper bolts or anything like that. I'm really not sure where to go from here.

Any info would be helpful. Thanks guys!

 

[TehRiceBandit]

Something similar like this happened to me, it may be the same issue.

First, take the shim off the caliper something is wrong there; if it's installed correctly it should be a bolt-on affair requiring no extra hardware.

I suspect your rotor is not sitting flush against the wheel hub causing your caliper to hit it. What happened to me was there was rust on the studs preventing the rotor from sitting flush against the wheel hub. I solved this by:

1) Putting the rotor on
2) Threading stock lug nuts on the wheels studs sitting against the rotor
3) Torquing the lugs in a star pattern forcing the rotor to seat properly on the studs. Do this with handle tools, don't over torque. You may also want to spray PB blaster before hand on the corroded threads.
4) Confirm the rotor is flush by spinning the wheel. The rotor shouldn't move side to side.

Hope this solves your issue!

 

[Dsmkauai]

If there's rust build up use a die grinder and scotch brite pad to clean up. Sounds like you need a new master cyl possible. And I've used brakemotive for years with no issues at all. Those are my boys in Chitown! Some how your not sitting flush or for some reasons got the wrong parts. Make sure your new rotors and pads match your old ones perfect.

 

[smills1840]

I'll give that a shot. I just hope my rotor isn't ruined already. Thanks![DOUBLEPOST=1408855509][/DOUBLEPOST]So I just checked my fuse box and there's a slot for the abs fuse but no fuse there. Upon further inspection I noticed there aren't even contacts for a fuse. I know I have abs though. Is this normal?

 

[TehRiceBandit]

I'll give that a shot. I just hope my rotor isn't ruined already. Thanks![DOUBLEPOST=1408855509][/DOUBLEPOST]So I just checked my fuse box and there's a slot for the abs fuse but no fuse there. Upon further inspection I noticed there aren't even contacts for a fuse. I know I have abs though. Is this normal?

Mine is the same.

 

[luv2rallye]

I put everything back together and bled everything in this order: Passenger Rear, Driver Rear, Passenger Front, Driver Front

Also you're doing the wrong sequence. Because diagonally opposite wheels are on the same M.C. chamber you need to do sequence RR, LF, LR, RF and in that order only.

 

[smills1840]

Understood, thanks! Do you think that would have an effect on the pedal?

 

[luv2rallye]

For soft spongy brakes it will help yes. However your problem sounds like something else. Just wanted to set you straight on the sequence to eliminate that as another problem.

 

[smills1840]

Thanks. I think I narrowed the pulsing to a warped rotor. It must have been warped from the factory. I replaced it with my old rotor and the pulsing/vibration is gone.

My main concern now is my spongy pedal. It doesn't take much force for it to hit the floor. I'll try bleeding in the correct sequence and see if that helps. Thanks!

 

[Dsmkauai]

The rotors are warrantied send it back. Contact brake motive and they will make it right! Sounds like you have a bad master cyl bro. Or a leak somewhere

 

[luv2rallye]

+1. Ya if re-bleeding doesn't help suspect master cylinder (most likely) or slave cylinder.

 

[smills1840]

The rotors are warrantied send it back. Contact brake motive and they will make it right! Sounds like you have a bad master cyl bro. Or a leak somewhere

I'm gonna give them a call tomorrow. I emailed them this weekend with no reply yet.

I don't seem to lose fluid over time, but a leak is definitely possible. I'll bleed it a couple more times and if that doesn't help I'll start looking into a master cylinder.

 

[smills1840]

I purchased a 3g master cylinder. I just finished bleeding it 3 times in this order: RR LF LR RF.

I can still push the pedal to the floor fairly easily. Perhaps this is just how DSM brakes feel, but it seems like I'm much too far into the pedal to achieve what I would consider hard braking. There's no chance of me engaging the abs on dry pavement, and it seems to be a little to hard to engage even on wet pavement.

Any suggestions or ideas?

 

[mercaholik]

First off no that's not how dsm brakes feel, that would suck . They are actually pretty decent, esp with the right pads. But as far as your soft pedal does your brake fluid run low, and have you checked out the rear brakes? Thin rotors and worn pads will ruin your pedal travel. Still sounds like something else, I was involved in helping this one guy with a soft pedal that he could not figure out. He replaced almost the entire system, short of the hard lines. Turns out that solved it, we were stumped when he said it didn't leak! We were like hundreds of psi worth of brake fluid didn't leak out of w.e tiny pin hole was in the line? But 14.7 psi (ish) can get into it when it's parked and not under pressure? Idk but it's something to think about if you check all other parts.

 

[smills1840]

The car still stops under normal conditions, but a near collision at an intersection (lady didn't yield making a left turn) is what started all this. I was headed straight for her van with the pedal completely on the floor and it just wasn't stopping like it should.

I have installed the following:

New pads (brakemotive)
New rotors (brakemotive)
3g mastercylinder
Stainless steel line from rear port on MC to brake line junction block thing

I've bled 3 times and I can still make the pedal hit the floor uncomfortably easily. Granted, I haven't road tested the new master cylinder and bleed job yet, but sitting in the car with the engine running the pedal still hits the floor.

 

[yhype]

Was it a used 3g master cylinder or new? If you still have abs which it sounds like you do, did you bleed that as well?

 

[bryanwheat]

Spongy brakes is either air in the lines or a problem with the master cylinder. How are you bleeding the brakes? Have you let the master go dry at all?

 

[smills1840]

The 3g master was used. It look brand-spankin-new though. I know this doesn't mean that it's a good part, but I defi Italy felt good about it.

I installed it using a 36" braided line with (2) - 03an to 10x1mm adapters. I didn't bench bleed the master, if that's even a thing.

I then bled the brakes in the order I said above using a Harbor freight hand pump bleeder. I definitely saw a large amount of air from master/new brake line when I bled the first wheel.

I do have abs, though I'm not sure how to bleed it.[DOUBLEPOST=1411943938][/DOUBLEPOST]I bled it with the car running just to rule that out. I went ahead and drove the car for a while just to test it out. It seemed to improve some but I'm still not confident in my braking.

Does anyone else think that braided lines will help? Or is that mostly hype?

 

[bryanwheat]

If your brakes are spongy than ss lines will not help you at all. You still have air in the lines somewhere. Try the standard method of having someone pump the brakes, hold the pedal down, open bleeder, close bleeder, release pedal than repeat multiple times until there is no more air. Do not ever let the master go dry or you will have to start all over again.

 

[smills1840]

I tried that method if bleeding as well. No luck.

 

[bryanwheat]

I tried that method if bleeding as well. No luck.

How much fluid did you go thru in this process? How many times did you pump and open each caliper?

 

[smills1840]

Almost 3 quarts of fluid and I had my assistant pump at least 5 times and hold, 3 times per caliper.

 

[bryanwheat]

It's starting to sounds like you have air trapped in the module. Sometimes on some cars you will have to cycle the abs module in order to get the air out.

 

[ceedawg]

It's starting to sounds like you have air trapped in the module. Sometimes on some cars you will have to cycle the abs module in order to get the air out.

How do you do that I would really like to know since I installed my 3g MC dry? I also put on the evo brembo rear callipers have baer fronts.

 

[smills1840]

It's starting to sounds like you have air trapped in the module. Sometimes on some cars you will have to cycle the abs module in order to get the air out.

So I assume I need to find some terrain that will let me engage the abs? Will that be enough to release the air?