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Pre-intercooler Nitrous placement?

Posted by NewTurboTuner, Aug 9, 2006

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  1. NewTurboTuner

    NewTurboTuner Proven Member

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    Has anyone installed their Nitrous Nozzle Pre-intercooler before?
    I sent a couple emails to NX and those tards aren't getting back to me:mad:


    I've had juice on 4 of my cars, and all very successfully. I know how to tune it, and I'm real comfortable with it, but I never heard of anybody doing what I'm about to ask.


    Here's what I'm thinking about.
    1 of 2 things, or maybe even both?

    The 1st idea is to spray a 10-15HP Dry shot, and install the nozzle right before the intercooler in the LICP. This is to cool the turbo air to get cooler intake temps letting me run more boost and timing.....just like a water/alky/meth/whatever ya wanna call it kit would do. The theory I have is that a frosty cold Nitrous shot should cool intake temps better than any of the water/alky/meth mixes will. I'll gain a little HP from the added oxygen, but the main reason behind this is to cool intake temps so I can run more boost & Fuel.

    The other idea is the same.... to install the nitrous nozzle PRE-intercooler, BUT with a WET kit! (Oh you're thinking I'm crazy, and it won't work huh?) ...Well the 2 nozzle will be split up. The 1st Frosty cold Nitrous nozzle will be installed Pre-intercooler, and The Fuel Nozzle will be installed right in front of the TB. THIS idea is to gain power from the Nitrous/fuel mix, but at the same time (by having the n2o nozzle pre-intercooler) I will still gain the added benefit of the chilled intercooler air.



    I really think it will have a awesome cooling effect on the intake temps if I can plum the n2o pre-intercooler. I "think" it will be OK to plum the Nitrous PRE-intercooler because the nitrous will be exposed to the hot turbo air, and it will stay in gas form... heck it might even turn to gas faster because of the hotter turbo air... so there is no chance for it to pool up inside the intercooler. I cant think of any reason this would not be OK, but I've never heard of anyone doing this before... so I thought I'd ask 1st.

    I already have a water/meth kit, but I don't know anything about it. I've been tuning Nitrous since 99.... so I've already got alot of spare parts/kits that I can use. Also if you ask me Nitrous is cooler:cool: , and it colder:cool: both of those are added befits.


    HAS ANYONE DONE THIS BEFORE?
    Let me know what you think


    Thanks!:thumb:
    ~SteveB
     

    855  6

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    automatic · 2G DSM
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  2. DGajre777

    DGajre777 DSM Wiseman

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    This is the idea behind the intercooler kits with nitrous, but they spray over the IC instead of before it.

    And how will this work with the blow off valve? Air will go out, fuel will go in.
     

    Drag Race Build 1K  1

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  3. 95TalonOwner

    95TalonOwner Proven Member

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    The first idea is probably your best bet.
     

    975  0

    1995 Eagle Talon N/T
    000.0 whp · 000.0 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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  4. 96eclipsex

    96eclipsex Proven Member

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    What I would do is find some small pipe drill holes in it mount it to the IC hook the nos line to it.

    that way you can cool your intercooler and you dont have the risk of blowing your motor.
    plus i would say you can fill your nos tank with co2 (real cheap) and get the same effect


    just a thought
     
  5. NewTurboTuner

    NewTurboTuner Proven Member

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    Nice little pic you got there

    I now about the nitrous/CO2 intercooler fosters that go on the outside of the intercooler. That only cools the intercooler (which intern helps cool the inside air). That does work, but its not too efficient.

    A nozzle that goes on the inside of the Intercooler would be much more efficient to cool the air, because the frosty n2o will cool the air directly. (instead of frosting the intercooler, that intern... cools the air)

    Nitrous only comes on at WOT(WideOpenThrottle) So the BOV shouldn't be a problem, because it only works when you get off of the throttle. ....if I'm off of the throttle I'm not at WOT... so the nitrous would turn off right as soon as I get out of WOT... and then the BOV will vent the air/n2o


    I'm 90% my idea will work.... I just am not 100% because I've never heard of it being done before.
    And I'm pretty sure if I can get it going ....it will be more effective in cooling intake temps then a water/meth kit.
     

    855  6

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    automatic · 2G DSM
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  6. DGajre777

    DGajre777 DSM Wiseman

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    It is inefficient, but it is safe.

    Yes, but this would make it a dry setup. The only difference is that you will be plumbing it for the intercooler instead of the engine. If you are trying to prevent heatsoak, this is good. If you have a big FMIC, why bother?!

    Good point. I'm glad that you realize that you will blow air and n2o.

    I say try the second idea and let us know how it works.
    If you try the first idea, you should get a wideband to make sure you don't run lean if you do the "dry" type setup.
     

    Drag Race Build 1K  1

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  7. NewTurboTuner

    NewTurboTuner Proven Member

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    Oh and I'm not worried about blowing my motor. I've had Nitrous on every car I've had since 99 (4 of them)

    Nitrous is not bad or harmful to a motor. A bad tune is harmful to a motor. N2O just generally has a bad rep, because the system looks (and is) so simple. People think they can just hook it up and run it, but that's not the case. You gotta tune this stuff, while always maintaining consistent pressure levels. ((You cannot run a turbo without boost control, and with no tuning ...Its the same deal with n2o)) With nitrous... the bottle pressure is your boost control (That's why its so important to keep the bottle at a certain temperature. Hotter bottle = higher pressure. Colder bottle = lower pressure) If you don't keep you bottle pressure in check... too much nitrous will come out of the nozzle when the pressure is high... and too little n2o will come out when the pressure is too low.... So you'll get lean/rich mixtures. ((that is the biggest problem with most people... they don't know how important it is to maintain consistent temps, and bottle pressure..... then they get all kinds of different lean and rich mixtures.)) ...Once you've got your bottle in check... then you can tune it properly.

    A exterior intercooler foster is not very pressure sensitive, because you are not spraying the n2o/co2 into the engine. SO yeah its much safer, but not nearly as effective.
     

    855  6

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    automatic · 2G DSM
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  8. NewTurboTuner

    NewTurboTuner Proven Member

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    I'll wait a little bit before I start to experiment. Hopefully someone has some experiance with it ....If not then I'll do some test for everyone. I'll try it all differant ways and use temp sensers to test intake temps ...I bet a small frosty 10 shot will do wonders for temps:D
     

    855  6

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    automatic · 2G DSM
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  9. DGajre777

    DGajre777 DSM Wiseman

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    10HP shot? That's all you plan on using? You do know that when you spray nitrous on the intercooler some of it goes INSIDE the intercooler and into the engine right??

    Good luck and keep us posted on the findings of your experiment.
     

    Drag Race Build 1K  1

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  10. 95TalonOwner

    95TalonOwner Proven Member

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    WTF :confused:
    What are you talking about? You know if that statement was true, that everyone's intercoolers would just be huge boost leaks. I suggest you study up on how an intercooler is built and works.
     

    975  0

    1995 Eagle Talon N/T
    000.0 whp · 000.0 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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  11. DGajre777

    DGajre777 DSM Wiseman

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    Can you atleast wait till I reply to your post before you suggest that I go read up? :p

    There is a difference between 25psi air leaking out of the intercooler and nitrous oxide at 1000+ psi coming out of a bottle being sprayed directly on the intercooler. Some of it will go IN the intercooler.

    More info here - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206296

    The only reason to get n2o spray would be if you have a small intercooler that heatsoaks after a run. You can spray it with n2o, chill the intercooler and do another run. If you have a huge FMIC which doesn't heatsoak, the n2o will drop temps by a few degrees, nothing major. The FMIC will still do what it is supposed to do.

    Sorry for hijacking your thread NewTurboTuner.
     

    Drag Race Build 1K  1

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  12. 95TalonOwner

    95TalonOwner Proven Member

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    I read that and show me where people talk about the the nitrous spraid on the intercooler some how leaks through the metal in order to actually enter the intercooler pipes.

    All it does is make the intercooler more efficient by cooling it down to cool the pressurized air more than normal.
     

    975  0

    1995 Eagle Talon N/T
    000.0 whp · 000.0 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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  13. DGajre777

    DGajre777 DSM Wiseman

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    The nitrous going inside the engine through the intercooler is not just in theory.

    Wrong again. Go read. :p

    Here is a test done by CryoFusion -

    "We concluded that nitrous oxide, when sprayed onto the intercooler can net some impressive results. However, a larger portion of the gain seen while employing this method comes from the residual N2O being drawn into the intake and subsequently used within the combustion chamber. N2O's oxidizing capabilities assist in combustion, creating horsepower. This is a double edged sword. The problem with using nitrous oxide in this manner is that it is unmetered. In other words, there can be no way to correct the air/fuel ratio or ignition timing of the car when the nitrous oxide is added. This will almost certainly lead to eventual motor damage."

    http://www.cryofuzion.com/spraybar.htm :thumb:


    NewTurboTuner - Back to what I said. Spraying a 10shot of Nitrous oxide will most probably yield the same effects as using an Intercooler Spray bar for nitrous.

    If you want to spray a 50 shot of wet nitrous before the intercooler, the best way would be to spray nitrous before the intercooler, fuel after the intercooler but before the blow off valve. Doing it this way will not put fuel in the intercooler, but the blow off valve will release fuel and air. Unless you are venting, some of that fuel will go back in the turbo, get compressed and go back to the intercooler.

    And if you are going to spray 50 shot of n20, why not just have a regular wet kit and spray it before the throttle body? So now we are back to square one. :)
     

    Drag Race Build 1K  1

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  14. JayRolla

    JayRolla Proven Member

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    How does the No2 get into the intake system just by spraying on the intercooler. Isnt this completly sealed system?
     

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    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  15. gamingguru

    gamingguru Proven Member

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    Turbo sucks it up.
     
  16. DGajre777

    DGajre777 DSM Wiseman

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    :confused: How?

    The only thing that could possibly absorb it is the intercooler. It probably has something to do with the high pressure and chemical breakdown of n2o when it is sprayed on the intercooler. Any one know?
     

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    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  17. danyz250f

    danyz250f Proven Member

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    The only way n2o would get into the motor from an intercooler spray bar, is if all the gas blowing through the intercooler got to the air filter and got sucked into the intake. N2o will not go through the metal walls of the intercooler. Hence the reason n20 is put and stored in metal tanks and fed through steel lines.

    But even if it did get to the filter, it would probably be disipated enough that it wouldnt do anything. You might gain a little but by no means enough to hurt anything.
     
  18. DGajre777

    DGajre777 DSM Wiseman

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    Look at all the dyno sheets on the link that I posted above.

    If what you say is true, and the intercooler doesn't suck it, neither does the turbo, and if it is too far away from the air filter, how does it get in the engine? :confused:
     

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    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  19. danyz250f

    danyz250f Proven Member

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    Lets say I fart three feet away from you and it is strong mix. If the wind (air blowing through the intercooler into the engine bay carries the n2o) blows in your direction you will smell it (suck it in your nose or the filter) this will cause you (or the engine to see a more flamable mix of air) to say that stinks and then probably hit me.

    J/K this is all in theory.

    I think a 10 shot of NAWZZ before the intercooler will help out a bit. Just log and watch for knock.
     
  20. gamingguru

    gamingguru Proven Member

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    Here are some quotes from the intercoller spraying link that DGarje777 posted eairlier.


    I know I bolded those for emphesis there, but if your re read that carefully you will notice that when they dump a bottle of CO2 12 feet away from the car peak horsepower drops by 4.

    O ya, one last quote off that page


    If we can go by their results then the nitrous is most deffinatly drawn into the intake and is what is causeing most of their gains.
     
  21. RusherRacing

    RusherRacing Proven Member

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    I have seen your first suggestion done (using a dry kit). One kit was on an old DSM for drag racing purposes, that was a run till she blows setup. It was fast but only ran for 1/3 of the season. He was running a 30hp dry shot with the PSI maxed out on a 14b turbo. I think the car could have run all year but he jumped it up to a 100hp shot for a couple runs and the motor fell apart.

    I have also seen it done pre aftercooler on a supercharged Honda. This individual was running a 50hp dry set up. It seemed to work good. Didn't see this car run a whole lot but it ran very fast. This was also on a drag racing setup.
     

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    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 1G DSM
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  22. JayRolla

    JayRolla Proven Member

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    Even if it blew up there it would not be stong enough of a mix to do anything. Ive seen shows where they put a 75shot in a hondas throttle body and only dynoed 30 more whp. This just dont make sence to me. The only thing in the no2 that gives you power is the 2 parts of oxygen. It would have to be directly injected into the intercooler system. Even if you shot it on the air filter I still dont think it would do much.
     

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    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  23. NewTurboTuner

    NewTurboTuner Proven Member

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    danyx250f wrote:
    ""The only way n2o would get into the motor from an intercooler spray bar, is if all the gas blowing through the intercooler got to the air filter and got sucked into the intake. N2o will not go through the metal walls of the intercooler.""

    Bingo!
    The n2o won't be absorb through the metal. It will be sucked up because you are spraying it right onto the front of the intercooler.... and right into the engine bay. The intake sucks up air from the engine bay... so any left over n2o could get sucked out of the engine bay. But I don't think it would be enough to make any big difference.
     

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    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    automatic · 2G DSM
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  24. NewTurboTuner

    NewTurboTuner Proven Member

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    BBbAAaaaaAAAAA Ahahahaha!!!!! ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL O M G!!! LOL LOL
    I'm phuckin cry'N! And I almost feel outta my seat!!!ROFL ROFL ROFL

    HAhahah HHooo oohh oh geeez that was THE funniest thing I've read on here ever!!!:D
     

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    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    automatic · 2G DSM
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  25. NewTurboTuner

    NewTurboTuner Proven Member

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    And just to make it clear....
    The 1st idea was not to make a dry shot of nitrous and gain power from the n2o. (although I know technically it is a dry shot, and I will gain a small bit of power just from the added n20) But the real idea is to inject just enough nitrous... that it will dramatically cool my intake temps.... allowing me to run more boost (the higher boost is what I'm really after) and more fuel ...which of course means more power.

    I also know there are easier ways to cool my intake temps (like use my water/meth injection kit... maybe put ice in the water to super chill it), but I'm hoping I can get the intake temps even colder if I use a small bit of frosty cold n2o. (also the cold n2o will cool the intercooler from the inside out which has to be better than from the outside in) And doing like a 10-15 shot will last me a long time with a 10lb bottle as opposed to having to refill my water/meth bottle all the time.

    I guess I'm just looking for other/new/creative/better ways to improve intake cooling. I've got alot of spare nitrous parts, and I'm just brain storming for new and improved ways to do things:D The idea of adding ice into my water/meth kit is real similar to what I'm trying to do with the nitrous... but who want to add ice to their car every time they go out and drive it... plus it would melt within a hour or so, and then the cold water would be gone. The nitrous will always be icy/frosty when it comes out of the bottle... and for a Daily Driver a 10-15shot is gonna last me a long time if I only use it at WOT. So you see I'm just hunting for improved ways to super cool my intake temps, and still keep it easy to use for a DD

    The 2nd Idea was to get all the benefits of the 1st idea, Plus get the added power of the incoming n2o and fuel just like a normal wet shot would do.

    I appreciate all the feedback.
    Keep it coming!
     

    855  6

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    automatic · 2G DSM
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