Please help with Cyclone

[keltalon]

I also have read this tread and all I have to say is that there are lots of beneficial information here! if you really pay attention as to what is said you will have no problem getting the manifold to work! we got my buddy's working and like said before it really pulls good down low , top end its hard to tell but i dont think he's loosing anything, seems about the same! i just also want to say this , after all these yrs i am very suprised no one has dynoed there car with the 1g manifold and then with the cyclone manifold (working properly that is) i have been able to find any and everything i want on these boards, but not this comparison as you can see from my profile i have done many complicated mods to my car ,by myself (auto to manual swap, dsmlink, 7bolt to 6bolt swap, ect) all with the help of the forum community, some said these mods are difficult , some said not so difficult, in my opinion they were not difficult , but just time consuming my car is down right now due to a spun rod bearing (old oil drain tube cracked while driving on expressway lost oil, oil pressure ,then #4 rod bearing !) but anyway i am building another engine the same as other engined and when i finish i am going to put to an end this once and for all wether the cyclone intake is worth it mystery! look at my profile, check out my mods, because this is the same set up i will have when i dyno the cyclone intake. the dyno below was with the 1g stock unmodified intake manifold! i know that someone has dynoed the cyclone intake before ,one run with the runners open and one with the runners close and there was a big difference in the numbers down low on one run and up top on the other one! i really want to see one run with 1g intake and then the run other with cyclone intake operating properly. this way we can tell by the dyno curve ,is it worth it! give me a few months and i will post results! if its not worth it i will not hesitate to take it off my car, if it is worth it , it will definitely stay on! i just need to do this to satisfy my own curiosity, i really dont care about the time its going to take to do the comparison, because i think everybody wants to know the same thing as i do, i think everybody is of this subject! i know i am! i have a manifold and it will be put on and tested!!!!! its going to be around february before i am complete with my car, few more things i need to get for my engine

 

[gsxeclipse97]

I finally got my car back yesterday and i have the cyclone intake on there. I have done lots of research on this so for those who have something bad to say i don't need to hear it ive read everything that has been said to people who have tried to use it. I followed the instructions that are on here about using a rpm switch and i have that all set up and i have the vacuum lines all in the right spot. but i had to use an msd switch instead of the summit one because they were out. do you ground the fprs or where is it getting its power from because i tried to test it to see if the butterflys opened but there was no luck with that so anyone with experince with it please help.

I'm still in the break in process but at least i would be able to have the acceleration from the cyclone

 

[scottsee]

I was allways under the impression you need the JDM ecu to contole the second set of butterflys. Am I wrong?

 

[gsxeclipse97]

There are a number of ways to do it but im using the way that is closest to the jdm ecu with out having to spend 260 on a eprom ecu with the key diver chip installed.

 

[Defiant]

There are extensive threads regarding the Cyclone. Also read the Tech Articles.

 

[2GEcpliseluvr]

im going to be swapping a 4G63w/Cyclone , I know that the Cyclone is the same motor as a usdm 4g63 with a different inkate manifold, but my question is will a cyclone bolt up to my 2Gb gst tranny, and does it have a different ecu? or is it exactly the same?

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Yes it will bolt up. It bolted up to my buddies GSX...and its just a 4G63 out of a JDM VR4...the cyclone manifold was shitty compared to a 1G IM for what we needed...just my though's. I personally would have pulled a 4G63 from a wreched car for $200, and torn it apart, and machined the head, and bolt surfaces, honed the cyl.'s, alinged, and hones the mains, and cam caps with 1G rods, and w/e piston's you want, and all for a fraction of the price of a JDM 4G63. Just my .02.

EDIT** And sorry for the mix up on what it came out of...and the comment on it being shitty was just in our case...he wanted more top end, then mid/bottom end flow.

 

[wvturbo2]

Don't the cyclone's have a seperate control for the throttle bodies?

 

[mitsured420]

i used a jdm 4g63 in my 1g but i used the usdm intake and throttle body. the cyclone manifold helps spool time a little but its not worth the top end restriction. i think the us throttle body is bigger also 60mm and you can use most of your stock sensors

 

[GVR4592]

Yes it will bolt up. It bolted up to my buddies GSX...and its just a 4G63 out of an EVO3...the cyclone manifold is shitty compared to a 1G IM...just my though's. I personally would have pulled a 4G63 from a wreched car for $200, and torn it apart, and machined the head, and bolt surfaces, honed the cyl.'s, alinged, and hones the mains, and cam caps with 1G rods, and w/e piston's you want, and all for a fraction of the price of a JDM 4G63. Just my .02.

It doesn't come from an Evo 3, it comes from the JDM Galant VR4. The manifold isn't shitty, it's just different. It wasn't intended to make a ton of top end power, it's mainly tuned for making a lot of midrange torque. You don't seem to know a whole lot about this subject, so why did you respond?

 

[GVR4592]

im going to be swapping a 4G63w/Cyclone , I know that the Cyclone is the same motor as a usdm 4g63 with a different inkate manifold, but my question is will a cyclone bolt up to my 2Gb gst tranny, and does it have a different ecu? or is it exactly the same?

It's a 6 bolt, so you would be looking at doing a complete 6 bolt swap.

 

[Hideki]

Just adding my two cents, but your stock ECU doesn't have a way of controlling the Cyclone manifold's butterfly valves. So to answer your question, NO your stock ECU will not work

 

[JayRolla]

Just a quick question but how would the ecu control the butterfly valves in the manifold??

 

[slipstream808]

It can't.

Need a chip from DSMchips or control it with DSMLink's nitrous controls.

 

[JayRolla]

I was asking how does the ecu control the mani with the ecu. Not if the usdm ecu can? I want to know how the JDM GVR4 RS ecu controls the valves.

 

[Street Surgeon]

The ecu has an output that controls the solenoid to actuate the butterfly valves. On our ECU's that are chipped we just reprogram the stock boost control solenoid to actuate the butterflies.

 

[JayRolla]

Sweet thanks.

 

[GVR4592]

You could also purchase an RPM activated switch from Summit for about $40 if you don't have an Eprom ecu.

 

[gsxeclipse97]

The cyclone has teh same topend that the 1g dsm has i have one that is working and there is no difference that i can tell.

 

[mitsured420]

The butterfly valves are actuated by vacuum/boost not the ecu,activates between 2-2.5k rpm.Helps low end/spool time but any kind of butterfly setup in your intake is going to be a restriction.Looks good under the hood but thats it.Go with a us intake

 

[gsxeclipse97]

No the butterfly valves do not open until 4100 rpms. That is the stock point were they open. This way they make a good amount of air flow for low and midrange tq while spolling the turbo faster. The butterflys only open for high end power so you have a full range of power.

 

[GVR4592]

The butterfly valves are actuated by vacuum/boost not the ecu,activates between 2-2.5k rpm.Helps low end/spool time but any kind of butterfly setup in your intake is going to be a restriction.Looks good under the hood but thats it.Go with a us intake

Vacuum is used to open the butterfly's, but the ecu activates a solenoid at 4100 rpms that allows that vacuum to reach the diaphragm that opens the butterfly's.

 

[mitsured420]

If they dont open until 4k wouldnt that be a huge restriction through more than half your power range that dosnt make sence, please clarify.

 

[slipstream808]

No. See runners aren't based off of amount of airflow per say. They are are tuned in accordance with RPM. So the runner length (that is what the cyclone is all about - 2 different runner lengths) will pretty much give you ideal power up unitl a certain point, then you need a shorter length at higher RPM's.

NOW. Is that oversimplified. Gosh-golly-gee-whiz heck yeah! There's more to it than that. But that's the main idea. If you have the ability to control when the butterflies open, you are pretty much set because then you can adjust for any changes in VE and... well... everything you've done to the car will change the optimal opening point for them.

Now, I'm still wondering. Is it a smooth transition, or do you know when they open and give you a bit more topend?

 

[gsxeclipse97]

No you cannot tell when the second runners are open or closed there is no hiccup of air flow. If you install them without the vaccum canister or a one way vaccum resivor then that could be a problem. But mine the transition is ver smooth. I used an rpm switch so i can change the activation points depending on turbo size and what not. If you hook it up wrong you have no power after 5k but other wise it pulls the same as the 1g intake manifold as far as i can tell.