Planning On Buying A built 93 DSM

[serjey15]

Hey guys, so im COMPLETELY new to dsms. I have owned hondas, but never owned anything else.
So I found this nice 1993 talon tsi awd. It has power sun roof, black leather seats, 125k original, rebuilt engine, 16g turbo, all this good stuff.
runs good, it just needs paint, the guy agreed on 3000 cash. but hes keepin some parts.
The thing is, im 16 years old and work weekends at wendys making minimum wage, how reliable is this car and how expensive it is to maintain.
I have 3 older brothers and they have had 3 dsms, all they said was change the timing belt in time. But I mean I just here these dsms break alot.
can I get some feed back? thanks.
Oh and heres the ad to the car, lemme know if its worth 3000.
F/S 1993 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD DSM OBO

 

[theslab]

get a toyota or stick to honda's .The dsm is for you haha

 

[knochgoon24]

Are the older brothers willing to help work on it?

 

[serjey15]

really how come?
Can I just get some help? I mean that thing is running 22psi and making 320awhp, its fast. And I love fast

oh yeah they always will help me. The workin on it is fine. They rebuilt the head on there first DSM when timing belt snapped, and changed the turbo because it was blown. I mean they know how, its just I dont have the fund to fix stuff every 2 weeks, you know what I mean?

 

[SpawnedX]

My DSMs have been as reliable as my Camry.

 

[GMCometh]

Take the $3,000 and add $1,000+ for basic maintenance and inspection expenses. Then add state tax, title, and tag fees. It adds up quick...just keep that in mind.

 

[serjey15]

Do you drive your DSM like a 16 year old? hahahahahahah.
I mean yeah the guy said it was fully rebuilt with all oem parts.
But doesnt 22psi seem WAY TOOOO much boost for stock internals? will that be reliable?

Well registration my mom will cover.
But I mean maintainance I plan to do myself (water pump, oil pump, timing belt, oil, anti freeze, ect)
But I mean by brother told me his second dsm, 91 awd, he said literely something broke every 2-3 weeks.

 

[Sik95TSI]

Yeah..... 22 PSI on stock internals? uhhhh I dont know about that, Put it this way the more power you have the easier it is for it to break down/stuff to break unless you have the money to invest in Aftermarket parts like Internals ect. Even then if you have aftermarket parts and better forged internals stuff still breaks when your running high boost/HP numbers! If your thinking about tunning it down then i would say yeah maybe consider buying it but if you want to go fast and just beat on it i would really think about it. Hope that helps!

 

[SpawnedX]

My DSMs see spirited driving, but I don't ignore little things and I don't think I can NASCAR is around.

 

[serjey15]

it has a manual boost controller, I told the guy I would boost it to 15-17psi. but he said since its "tuned" on 22psi, it will be bad for 15 psi because it will run too rich, true? false?

or can I just boost it down and be good?

 

[atruepretense]

Well here's the thing.

1. Do you know that the engine is actually built? Does he have receipts?
2. DSMs are pretty expensive cars to maintain, they do require almost religious care to ensure nothing ####s up.
3. 3,000$ can be fair or overkill depending on what's really in the car, and what he plans on keeping. You should let us know all these details.

I meaning being honest, you say you're going to pay for maintaining it. Do you know how much that costs? Just doing a timing belt job the right way will cost you easily $200+. Besides, if he the engine is really rebuilt, then he should have done all that.

Look all i'm saying is this:

I bought my 95 TSi AWD for $1,900 plus tags. It had 98k on it.

- First day I had it, changed plugs, wires, filter, and oil to synthetic. All that cost me almost $200.
- Then I had to replace my master cylinder $60
- Valve cover cracked and started leaking oil, got a new one. $50
- Brakes all around cost me about $100 for better pads.
- My transfer case seized due to a bad oil seal $150
- BOV started leaking at 12psi (I wanted to replace it anyways) but cost me almost $200 for a Type-S with pipe.
- I blew 3 turbos which cost me like $100 and up every time.
- Religious oil changes, @ close to 40-70$ each time.
- My timing belt change was upwards of $200.
- My engine ####ed up and spun a rod bearing just recently. Can't imagine how much it's gonna cost me just yet. Either a rebuild, or new engine price really.

This is not mentioning all the man hours I put in.

 

[GMCometh]

Well registration my mom will cover.
But I mean maintainance I plan to do myself (water pump, oil pump, timing belt, oil, anti freeze, ect)
But I mean by brother told me his second dsm, 91 awd, he said literely something broke every 2-3 weeks.

That's the other thing you have to think about. Do you drive to school and work? What happens if your dsm takes a dump? If you spend some time reading threads on here, a lot of people have problems with their cars. However, most of them are not 16, and most of them have some type of daily driver/back up car.

If it were me...I'd buy a little reliable honda and wait a few years until you are financially stable to purchase a dsm. Just my two cents though.

 

[atruepretense]

Yeah..... 22 PSI on stock internals? uhhhh I dont know about that, Put it this way the more power you have the easier it is for it to break down/stuff to break unless you have the money to invest in Aftermarket parts like Internals ect. Even then if you have aftermarket parts and better forged internals stuff still breaks when your running high boost/HP numbers! If your thinking about tunning it down then i would say yeah maybe consider buying it but if you want to go fast and just beat on it i would really think about it. Hope that helps!

22 Psi on stock internals is perfectly fine, depending on setup. 6 bolt blocks can easily handle up to about 500hp on a stock block, but at that point you're reducing life. Can a 6 Bolt handle 350-400hp? Sure can, and pretty reliably too, as long as the car is maintained correctly. But, everything else I agree with, very money hungry cars, these DSMs.

 

[serjey15]

Look at the ad i posted, hes keepin the body kit, wheels, steering wheel, stereo and hks BOV, hes giving me the modded OEM one and a knock of greddy bov. im just curious what exacly breaks on these cars?? I mean a water pump going out is nothing, but I mean do the blocks blow? do the trannys go out fast? stuff like that
and will I need to re tune if I boost it down to 15 psi?

 

[atruepretense]

Look at the ad i posted, hes keepin the body kit, wheels, steering wheel, stereo and hks BOV, hes giving me the modded OEM one and a knock of greddy bov. im just curious what exacly breaks on these cars?? I mean a water pump going out is nothing, but I mean do the blocks blow? do the trannys go out fast? stuff like that
and will I need to re tune if I boost it down to 15 psi?

Gotcha. Honestly man, anything can break on them depending on how it was maintained previously. I never trust anyone when buying a car. Because there can be so many things you just can't see messed up until it's later on. The 4G63T engine is a very strong engine, and can handle ALOT, but it has it's limits, and if it's not meticulously taken care of during it's life, it can start to have problems. These cars are very well known for GOING fast cheap, but once they break, fixing them can get quite expensive. I edited my above post, go back and look at it.

Oh and dude, a water pump going out can be VERY bad. The blocks can blow just like any other car. As for going down in boost, if your car is tuned for adding more fuel at a higher boost level, then yeah, otherwise you'll be dumping too much fuel.

 

[serjey15]

atruepretense, responding to your first post, the guy had the timing belt, water pump, and oil pump done, as well as new oem pistons, rings, rods, and rod bearings. So im not saying it will need work. But I mean in a couple years the belt will need to be changed, and water pump will need to be changed.
Go look at the ad, its my first post, he has everything on there. This guy seems like an honest guy, hes getting deployed, he honestly even told me, this car is not a 16 year olds best friend, its more of a second car/weekend car. But I mean you posted the oil changed and all that stuff .
On my prelude I was going through a quart of oil every week, I spent over 200 bucks on timing belt, balance belt, spark plugs, valve cover gasket and valve seals, then 2 weeks later my tensioner goes out, had to fix that, then a couple weeks later started goes out, thats 125 bucks, so I mean I didnt even have a job when I had my prelude, this was all my mom I saved up in the summer and my mom helped me out with the oil changed and gas money.
So since I have a job, I think I can move up in the world .
But yea, so you think id be better off running at 22psi what its set at, rather then running 15psi whats its not tuned for?
Check the AD its in my first post, let me know what you think

Also, everytime something broke, I pretty much had to fix it my self, I helped my buddy change timing belt on his GSR and thats all, but I changed my own timing belt with very little help, I do have some mechanic skills, considering many kids dont even know what an oil change is.

This was all during school, my weekends were spent fixing my 2 stroke honda prelude (eats THAT much oil)

 

[96awd]

well technically it's not "built." It's rebuilt with stock internals. I was 16 when I got my talon and I didn't drive the balls out of it either. I did on the weekends but just easy driving when need be. These cars are only as reliable as you make them. Simple maintenance and taking care of it will get you a long way.

If you aren't used to DSM's and Honda's are more you, stick to them. You can make a Honda "fast." Boost and build it. Don't get out of your comfort zone just for "fast."

 

[dsmrollerz90]

Do you drive your DSM like a 16 year old? hahahahahahah.
I mean yeah the guy said it was fully rebuilt with all oem parts.
But doesnt 22psi seem WAY TOOOO much boost for stock internals? will that be reliable?

Well registration my mom will cover.
But I mean maintainance I plan to do myself (water pump, oil pump, timing belt, oil, anti freeze, ect)
But I mean by brother told me his second dsm, 91 awd, he said literely something broke every 2-3 weeks.

I've got a stock motor, I run my DD DSM at 25psi. Never lower, the only pain in the ass weekly repairs I ever do are, tire pressure, vacuum carpets, and clean the engine.

It all depends on how you treat your car, my car has personality issues, if she dont like you, she wont let you drive, if she does like you, you wont have a problem. As long as you maintain your car how it is supposed to be with good parts, you will be fine.

I hear people on here saying, "Today I thougt about a WOT pull and this is acting weird now" SHIT! I go WOT everyday!! There is never a day that i dont hit 100mph. My car has 128,xxx original miles on the original motor. I'm not worried. She likes to play rough.

 

[cookmeup272]

Personally I think you should drive a stock dsm....maybe a toyota corolla for a couple years.

 

[Tyeler18]

As long as you plan on doing the maitanence right away you'll be perfectly fine. All the dsm's my friend's and I have bought have had all routine maitanence (timing, waterpump, fluids, etc) all done prior to them being put back on the road, even if the previous owner said it was done recently. We then know that everything's done correctly or at least up to our own standard so we have no one else to blame but ourselves when something breaks.

My advice, take a compression tester and a boost leak tester. Compression test the motor, boost leak test it, and as long as everything checks out good (rust, broken items, etc) then buy the car and enjoy driving it, but plan on doing the maitanence on it before too long.

As far as boost goes, if it's tuned to 22 psi you can turn it below 22 as much as you want and it will NOT affect the driveability of the motor. I'll try to explain it in as best detail as I can without getting too far into the tuning aspect of it. Think about it this way, say you are partial throttle all the way to redline, you WONT make full boost but you'll make say 15 psi up to redline. Does this affect the car only bringing it up to 15 psi and not the full 22 since you're only partial throttle? No, because the car is tuned UP to 22 psi the ecu has it's cell counts to add a certain amount of fuel between 0 and 22 psi at EVERY rpm cell. Hell, you can take and remove the waste gate flapper and run all motor. Will the car run like shit to redline all motor? No, because it's also tuned to run under 100% load to redline.

Hopefully that at least helps clear up the boost controller problem with some explanation. Just turn the boost all the way down or eliminate the boost controller completely until you feel comfortable that the car is capable of having the boost turned back up and you'll be good to go.

 

[atruepretense]

atruepretense, responding to your first post, the guy had the timing belt, water pump, and oil pump done, as well as new oem pistons, rings, rods, and rod bearings. So im not saying it will need work. But I mean in a couple years the belt will need to be changed, and water pump will need to be changed.
Go look at the ad, its my first post, he has everything on there. This guy seems like an honest guy, hes getting deployed, he honestly even told me, this car is not a 16 year olds best friend, its more of a second car/weekend car. But I mean you posted the oil changed and all that stuff .
On my prelude I was going through a quart of oil every week, I spent over 200 bucks on timing belt, balance belt, spark plugs, valve cover gasket and valve seals, then 2 weeks later my tensioner goes out, had to fix that, then a couple weeks later started goes out, thats 125 bucks, so I mean I didnt even have a job when I had my prelude, this was all my mom I saved up in the summer and my mom helped me out with the oil changed and gas money.
So since I have a job, I think I can move up in the world .
But yea, so you think id be better off running at 22psi what its set at, rather then running 15psi whats its not tuned for?
Check the AD its in my first post, let me know what you think

Also, everytime something broke, I pretty much had to fix it my self, I helped my buddy change timing belt on his GSR and thats all, but I changed my own timing belt with very little help, I do have some mechanic skills, considering many kids dont even know what an oil change is.

This was all during school, my weekends were spent fixing my 2 stroke honda prelude (eats THAT much oil)

I read everything, and I understand the car won't be needing work now. But, you asked how expensive they are to maintain and how often do they break, well I gave you an idea of what i've gone through . I read the ad, it's pretty solid, and he sounds honest. Honestly, I would just drive the car as is. 22psi is not much, and as long as the tuning is right for it, enjoy the boost.

 

[donniekak]

As for going down in boost, if your car is tuned for adding more fuel at a higher boost level, then yeah, otherwise you'll be dumping too much fuel.

Definitely not the case. The air meter tells the ecu how much air is going into the engine. The ecu opens the injectors for a specific amount of time to mix the measured air, and fuel to the target ratio in the look up table.

To the op, don't buy the car.

 

[serjey15]

damn thanks guys.
Another reason why I left hondas. On the forums they always post bull shit and never help with anything. You guys answered some questions and I know more about DSMS now than I did about hondas the first 2 months hahahaha.
But yeah the guy is honest. he told me he doesnt feel comfortable selling me it, and hes in the army and stuff, so he seems cool, he said he will take it to shop and have it inspected for me.
But then again, if something happens, it has more than 3000 in parts . I can part it out.

So I think I will check it out, I have a compression tester, and I will check even though he says perfect compression ( is perfect between 135psi-155psi?)
how do I do a turbo boost test?

 

[atruepretense]

Definitely not the case. The air meter tells the ecu how much air is going into the engine. The ecu opens the injectors for a specific amount of time to mix the measured air, and fuel to the target ratio in the look up table.

To the op, don't buy the car.

Well, yes. I understand that. But if he is tuning with an S-AFC, having 20% fuel increase at lower RPM will make him dump a bit more fuel.

 

[96awd]

170 across the board is perfect compression.