Opinion on Small 16G

[MircOne16G]

I am going to be on a tight budget building up a 1G as a daily driver. I want it to be fast, but not to the point where I break things (too much power). I have owned a 1G with a S16G before, and loved it.

I want to do as much as I can with stock fuel (for a while). I am also planing on ALL BASIC Bolt ons - All Exhaust upgrades, FMIC kit (small core)

Is this the turbo for me, or should I spend a few more for the Evo3/big 16G? I do want more power than the 14b, so I do want to upgrade the turbo.

 

[TWEAKD4]

The small 16g is still a good turbo. People have ran low 12's to upper 11's with it. Now that you can get a evo 16g for about the same price it would be the better choice. Now if you are looking for a cheap used turbo I have seen used 16gs go for $250 before which is a deal for what it is capable of. Just make sure you have all supporting mods before you upgrade turbos. The turbo SHOULD be one of the last mods to upgrade but no one does.

 

[MircOne16G]

Thanks for the input. The only reason I will purchase the S16G soon is because the 14b will be dying soon, if not dead already. But I am planning on getting all supporting mods for it of course.

Where can I find used S16g's for that price?

 

[daren_p]

You have to watch buying used turbo's, someones like new only 1K miles on it could end up not being so. Then the 250 deal won't look so good when it needs a rebuild and will end up costing more then a new one. There are places selling the evoIII for like $460 now, I believe the same price as the small so might as well go with the evo.

 

[MircOne16G]

Whoa, Evo3 for 460?! What shop is selling it for this price? Please fill me in, if thats the case, than I would buy the E3 no ques asked. Thanks again for the advice.

 

[GVR4592]

Guaranteed it's the EVO 3 GT from China, for that price. Most places I see sell the REAL EVO 3 for around 530-550, and the small 16g is usually the same price. I would go with the EVO 3 16g.

 

[dsm-onster]

Well, I loved my small 16g. I think it is an underrated overachiever. Like an underdog hero. I bought an 18g that i am satisfied with and now a 60-1. But i still won't sell my small 16g because i just MIGHT get another dsm and the first thing i'd look for is a small 16g. Hellatious spoolup. It is reported that it flows 50 cfm less than the evo3. That's around 40 horsepower. But with stock cams you'll have to pushe the boost envelope with either turbo to notice the difference, IMHO.

For supporting mods: you can save a little on injectors by just upgrading your fuel pump to a walbro 255 and an AFPR raise your fuel pressure to 50. This would give you flow similar to 525cc injectors according to DSM_Tuning_Sheet_v2.1. Grab a MAFt (look for a used one first) and a used 3" gm maf to tune the extra fuel. Very budget, but a sure shot to keep up with the small 16g and almost all of what a evo3 16g can throw at you with stock cams and intake mani. Also, for budget, if you can weld, exhaust work is a super cheap but highly rewarding upgrade for turbos, of course. And, it helps with the daily driver part as it greatly speeds spoolup.

 

[MircOne16G]

Thanks for the feedback dsm-onster. I was thinking the same thing. I wont have so many mods to have much of a difference between the two turbos, and my spool up time would be a lil quicker. I will be doing all exhaust mods (Exh manny, o2housing, dpback) and maybe a fmic in the near future. Thanks again for the feedback.

Mirc

 

[biglady112]

Well I think its a great turbo. I have another friend with an evo III 16g. They are stock motor 95 and 96 eclipse's. The 95 has the small and the 96 has the evo III. They have about the same mods. The only two things the small 16g has is a front mount intercooler and 264 cams. At 19psi he walks all over the 17psi evo III 16g. It is never even a close race. I tuned both cars, and both use dsmlink.

The small 16g is the little turbo that could. It made 288ahwp 315tq on pump gas @20psi. On 105 unleaded it made 320whp 361tq @24-25psi. This turbo is great on the street. The only thing he has ever lost to was me with my 60-1. I say go for it. Since you had one once before and liked it I say go for it. I think the evo III has awesome potential as well. With a few more things the 96 will over take the 95.

Steven

 

[daren_p]

Guaranteed it's the EVO 3 GT from China, for that price. Most places I see sell the REAL EVO 3 for around 530-550, and the small 16g is usually the same price. I would go with the EVO 3 16g.

turbochargers.com had the real evoIII listed at $459 & I believe they wanted the same for the big & small. For the GT version they want $499. Personally I would stay with the tried & true MHI evoIII.

Edit: Just checked it out, the MHI units are still on for $459, go evoIII

http://turbochargers.com/Turbos/TurboUpgrades/evo3.htm

 

[daren_p]

Well, I loved my small 16g. I think it is an underrated overachiever. Like an underdog hero. I bought an 18g that i am satisfied with and now a 60-1. But i still won't sell my small 16g because i just MIGHT get another dsm and the first thing i'd look for is a small 16g. Hellatious spoolup. It is reported that it flows 50 cfm less than the evo3. That's around 40 horsepower. But with stock cams you'll have to pushe the boost envelope with either turbo to notice the difference, IMHO.

For supporting mods: you can save a little on injectors by just upgrading your fuel pump to a walbro 255 and an AFPR raise your fuel pressure to 50. This would give you flow similar to 525cc injectors according to DSM_Tuning_Sheet_v2.1. Grab a MAFt (look for a used one first) and a used 3" gm maf to tune the extra fuel. Very budget, but a sure shot to keep up with the small 16g and almost all of what a evo3 16g can throw at you with stock cams and intake mani. Also, for budget, if you can weld, exhaust work is a super cheap but highly rewarding upgrade for turbos, of course. And, it helps with the daily driver part as it greatly speeds spoolup.

Is it just me or does anyone else think this is a bad idea as far as fuel goes? Running a 255 pump on the stock fpr will overrun it causing the car to run rich and adjusting the base fuel pressure from 43 to 50 will make it run crazy rich. Sure it will give you enough fuel at wot but under normal throttle conditions & idle your going to dump so much fuel the car will run like crap, go through gas like a pig & could possible do engine damage from washing the cylinder walls.

 

[MircOne16G]

My plans are to just rewire then purchase a walbro 190. 255 would be way to big for me and what Im planning.

Is it possible to reach 12's on pump gas with just bolt ons and stock fuel?

 

[SolidBoostTSi]

With enough bolt-ons it's possible to hit 12's on pump but with out the proper supporting mods, it's just a pipe dream. Check out the Tech-Guide, It will be your wing man every step of the way!

Solid

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Supporting mods and a good driver should take any 16g into the 12's. I'm pretty close myself with a shitty tune and a few friends of mine: one went 12.4 @ 106 and the other 12.4 at 109. Small 16g pumpgas power.

 

[TWEAKD4]

With enough bolt-ons it's possible to hit 12's on pump but with out the proper supporting mods, it's just a pipe dream. Check out the Tech-Guide, It will be your wing man every step of the way!

Solid

A local friend ran 12.9x on pump with water injection on a 14b. I think it is very possible with a small 16g.

 

[dsm-onster]

WTF

Is it just me or does anyone else think this is a bad idea as far as fuel goes? Running a 255 pump on the stock fpr will overrun it causing the car to run rich

I said he should get an AFPR in the post you quoted...

and adjusting the base fuel pressure from 43 to 50 will make it run crazy rich. Sure it will give you enough fuel at wot but under normal throttle conditions & idle your going to dump so much fuel the car will run like crap, go through gas like a pig & could possible do engine damage from washing the cylinder walls.

I said he should get a MAFt in the post you quoted. A MAFt controls the airflow signal so as to compensate at idle and part throttle as well as full throttle .

 

[dsm-onster]

A local friend ran 12.9x on pump with water injection on a 14b. I think it is very possible with a small 16g.

Yea. I think WI is the greatest invention to forced induction since the turbo. I did 22 psi with my SMALL 16g on my stock sidemount, fuel pump, and injectors. There was no knock at all so i kept cranking up the boost until it got rediculous. I stopped at 22 psi.

 

[MircOne16G]

Water Injection?

 

[andymoraitis]

Sure. You can run single or dual nozzle setups depending on your needs and activation is based on boost level. WI cools the intake charge and prolongs the onset of knock so that you can run more boost and higher timing with lower octane. It started years ago and became popular with the Buick crowd (Grand Nationals and GNX's) and has become a standard method for making pump gas act like race gas. It also has the benefit of continuously steam cleaning the motor when the solenoids activate. For more information, you can have a look at:

http://www.coolingmist.com or do searches for "Water Injection" on the web as well as Tuners.

Hope that helps,

Andy

P.S. While you can use distilled water, most people use windshield washer fluid which is almost a 50/50 mix of water and methanol with a bit of blue dye.

 

[daren_p]

WTF



I said he should get an AFPR in the post you quoted...



I said he should get a MAFt in the post you quoted. A MAFt controls the airflow signal so as to compensate at idle and part throttle as well as full throttle .

Hmmm, ya I know what a MAFT is. I don't know what I was thinking, somehow I missed both those parts I just saw run 255 & up your FP 7 psi. I'll try to work on my reading skills

 

[dsm-onster]

Hmmm, ya I know what a MAFT is. I don't know what I was thinking, somehow I missed both those parts I just saw run 255 & up your FP 7 psi. I'll try to work on my reading skills

Aww. Don't mind me. I was feeling frustrated yesterday because I warped my flywheel and rounded the shoulders on the flywheel bolts. But i got everything together today w/ my new ACT Streetlite . It's great and I feel like giving to Goodwill .

...Besides, I've been caught not reading posts many times too? Sorry i was so p!$$y .

Later

P.S. You're car looks beautiful...