oil keeps mixing with my coolant. help.!!

[vsalas793]

hey guys i just changed the headgasket with arp headstuds bc the last headgasket gave up. i torqued it to 90 ft lbs. everything runs fine but there is oil getting into my coolant/water system. everytime im flushing its chocalate milk (not thick) light in my water system. and i check my dip stick and everyday its like 1 quart gone into the water system. i dont think its the head gasket causing this. headgasket is fine. were could the oil be slipping through.?! right now i took out the thermostat and have running like that. it doesnt overheat. it never goes over half the temparature guage. so were is it slipping through

 

[GVR4592]

What type of gasket are you using? Was the cylinder head resurfaced after you blew the last headgasket? It could also be the water cooled oil filter housing/cooler. They sometimes get crushed allowing oil and coolant to mix.

Oil cooler info http://vfaq.com/mods/oilcool.html

 

[GTM]

What type of gasket are you using? Was the cylinder head resurfaced after you blew the last headgasket? It could also be the water cooled oil filter housing/cooler. They sometimes get crushed allowing oil and coolant to mix.

Oil cooler info http://vfaq.com/mods/oilcool.html

The trick here is to isolate which it might be. If he removes the water source by pulling the hoses at the oil cooler and either blocking them off or inserting a short length of copper tubing and hose clamps. If it's the oil cooler then oil will escape from the now exposed oil cooler vacant fittings. If nothing then it's probably the oil pressure feed to the head.
........................

It takes a lot of flushing to rid the cooling system of oil. First flush with water from the hose, if you can buy one of the garder hose adapters for the heater circuit so much the better. I've used a mixture of water, Joy liquid soap and kerosene. The soap homoginizes the kersone, dilutes the oil and flushes out, you have to get the engine hot eacg time and it will take 3-4 flushings. Don't forget the heater core, don't leave the kerosene overnight in the system in solution. The last flush or 2 use soap and water, there are some pockets in the head that will resist mixing so be patient for this may take several days.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[vsalas793]

thanks guys the head gasket is a cometic mls. three layer. but now that u guys told me about the oil cooler. i remember now. i had my oil change in sears for free. as soon as that day. that night when i got home my coolant resovior over fload. with chocolate milk. . it never overheated . so i changed the headgasket myself wit arp's. and oil still gets in my coolant. now i know y. that dummy probaly over tightened it when he put the new filter . i work der too. he is my friend. i never checked the oil filter housing. im pretty sure now that what it is. thanks guys. im takn it for tuning on friday. thanks again for the hints.

 

[GTM]

...
thanks guys. im takn it for tuning on friday. thanks again for the hints.

Remember the temp sender is calibrated and dependent on being in water, not steam, air, or water oil mix. My point is the temp gauge may be reading lower than actual so be careful.

You can unplug the cooling fan and put newspaper in front of the radiator when doing the flushings, leave the tstat out until you are finished.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[GVR4592]

The trick here is to isolate which it might be. If he removes the water source by pulling the hoses at the oil cooler and either blocking them off or inserting a short length of copper tubing and hose clamps. If it's the oil cooler then oil will escape from the now exposed oil cooler vacant fittings. If nothing then it's probably the oil pressure feed to the head.
........................

It takes a lot of flushing to rid the cooling system of oil. First flush with water from the hose, if you can buy one of the garder hose adapters for the heater circuit so much the better. I've used a mixture of water, Joy liquid soap and kerosene. The soap homoginizes the kersone, dilutes the oil and flushes out, you have to get the engine hot eacg time and it will take 3-4 flushings. Don't forget the heater core, don't leave the kerosene overnight in the system in solution. The last flush or 2 use soap and water, there are some pockets in the head that will resist mixing so be patient for this may take several days.

Cheers,
GTM

That's awesome I never would have thought of bypassing the coolant lines.

 

[vsalas793]

The trick here is to isolate which it might be. If he removes the water source by pulling the hoses at the oil cooler and either blocking them off or inserting a short length of copper tubing and hose clamps. If it's the oil cooler then oil will escape from the now exposed oil cooler vacant fittings. If nothing then it's probably the oil pressure feed to the head.
........................

It takes a lot of flushing to rid the cooling system of oil. First flush with water from the hose, if you can buy one of the garder hose adapters for the heater circuit so much the better. I've used a mixture of water, Joy liquid soap and kerosene. The soap homoginizes the kersone, dilutes the oil and flushes out, you have to get the engine hot eacg time and it will take 3-4 flushings. Don't forget the heater core, don't leave the kerosene overnight in the system in solution. The last flush or 2 use soap and water, there are some pockets in the head that will resist mixing so be patient for this may take several days.

Cheers,
GTM

i tried the bypass trick. no oil escaped from the vacant fittings. the oil feed line in the head is block off. the bolt that is tightened down so the oil does escape. i have ss feed line running from turbo to the oil cooler housing. i am not getting any oil from the head. what do i do next.

 

[vsalas793]

could it be that i am using the 2g water/oil cooler??????!!!!! i mean it fits onto the housing. is designed diffrent from a 1g cooler. ???? let me know guys this is a 6 bolt swap into a 96 2g.

 

[GTM]

could it be that i am using the 2g water/oil cooler??????!!!!! i mean it fits onto the housing. is designed diffrent from a 1g cooler. ???? let me know guys this is a 6 bolt swap into a 96 2g.

I can't answer specifically but I don't think there is any water passage from the block to the filter/cooler. All I can suggest is to rig up some method of pressure checking either the cooler and or the turbo housing.

Did we discuss the possibility that the oil is leaking from the front of the block as it feeds from the pump to the filter? You don't want to know about this for the whole front of the engine has to be torn down to the block to replace gaskets. After that then the whole engine has to be checked so it's really important to thoroughly test any topical / external fitting or component to exclude it as a source.

The turbo should have no problem handling 100-120 psi air, the cooler may be another story so limit this to maybe 50 psi.

Do you know for a fact it's still leaking? If you are still getting fresh oil floating on the top then probably yes. However if it's just homoginized in the water this may be from static pockets that the solvent didn't dilute and wash out. It's been a long while since I've seen drawings of the oil cooling circuit so can't remember if you have a thermostat for the cooler or if this can in any way permit the oil to contamination to water.

I am not a DSM expert but drawing from many years and thousands of other cars. Any input from other members who are hands on experienced would be helpful.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[vsalas793]

yes its fresh oil. because if i drive for a day. i check the dip stick and it looses about half a quart of oil. the water pump is brand new. gaskets. the turbo was taken off and inspected when i changed the headgasket. i will try flushing it tommorow all day. to see if all that oil goes away.

 

[vsalas793]

yes its fresh oil. because if i drive for a day. i check the dip stick and it looses about half a quart of oil. the water pump is brand new. gaskets. the turbo was taken off and inspected when i changed the headgasket. i will try flushing it tommorow all day. to see if all that oil goes away. as far as the oil cooler is there a diffrence between 1g or 2g.

 

[vsalas793]

also forgot to add that no blue, white smoke comes out of my exhaust is coming out. none. its nice clean motor.

 

[elementalwindx]

hey guys i just changed the headgasket with arp headstuds bc the last headgasket gave up. i torqued it to 90 ft lbs. everything runs fine but there is oil getting into my coolant/water system. everytime im flushing its chocalate milk (not thick) light in my water system. and i check my dip stick and everyday its like 1 quart gone into the water system. i dont think its the head gasket causing this. headgasket is fine. were could the oil be slipping through.?! right now i took out the thermostat and have running like that. it doesnt overheat. it never goes over half the temparature guage. so were is it slipping through

My talon locked up due to two things, oil starvation, and the stupid water/oil sandwich cooler that comes on 92-99 dsms. They are known to crack over time and leak into the oil system, which is what happened with me. Also if you havnt yet, do a leak down test, or go to a shop and do a block test. A block test basically is this blue fluid that you inject into your cooling system thru the radiator cap and if it changes colors inside the injector then you have a exhaust leak going into the cooling system, that would prove that either a) you have a cracked block (extremely rare) or b) you didnt do your head gasket right. When you torqued them down to 90ft/lb did you use the moly lube or oil? Did you torque them in cycles per described in the service manual? like 15, 30, 60, 90 and in the star pattern? Before you got to 90ft/lb did you heat cycle the motor a few times before you reached 90ft/lb?

P.S. After fully reading this thread 100%, you say no smoke comes out, thats proof that your head gasket is sealing, but still do a block test at the least. My experience tells me that the only thing left to mix the two would be the water/oil cooler that comes on all 92+ dsms. If I remember correctly it doesn't take much effort to remove that cooler from the filter housing, just gotta remove the oil filter, and the metal piece the filter threads on to, and of course the lines to the cooler, and then the cooler itself. Just check the service manual to be sure.

 

[GTM]

yes its fresh oil. because if i drive for a day. i check the dip stick and it looses about half a quart of oil. the water pump is brand new. gaskets. the turbo was taken off and inspected when i changed the headgasket. i will try flushing it tommorow all day. to see if all that oil goes away.

With it leaking that much oil it should be easy to find. Something else just occured to me re turbo and cooler possible leaks. Just fill them with water at the highest point and start the car, if it's leaking that much it should force the water out the top. I wouldn't press my luck with the turbo and racing the engine for the only cooling it will get will be from the oil and the small amount of water in the chamber. It can boil on the side nearest the exhaust so just keep you eye on it while the engine is running.

You can try the same thing with the oil cooler as well, in either or both it may take adding a hose so it will point upwards and the other fitting plugged.

I mentioned the block to head oil feed, did I understand you to say you had plugged this passage and added another source for oil??

I can't see the oil drain back passages having anything to do with this but we are running out of possibilities and I'm really scratching for answers. You can pressurize the oil gallery with air to 100 psi and then watch the radiator filler hole for bubbles. You will loose a lot of air from the bearings but if you have a reasonable source it may be enough to find the leaks. If you can isolate the head from the block so much the better.

Keep us advised, ask any questions.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[elementalwindx]

With it leaking that much oil it should be easy to find. Something else just occured to me re turbo and cooler possible leaks. Just fill them with water at the highest point and start the car, if it's leaking that much it should force the water out the top. I wouldn't press my luck with the turbo and racing the engine for the only cooling it will get will be from the oil and the small amount of water in the chamber. It can boil on the side nearest the exhaust so just keep you eye on it while the engine is running.

You can try the same thing with the oil cooler as well, in either or both it may take adding a hose so it will point upwards and the other fitting plugged.

I mentioned the block to head oil feed, did I understand you to say you had plugged this passage and added another source for oil??

I can't see the oil drain back passages having anything to do with this but we are running out of possibilities and I'm really scratching for answers. You can pressurize the oil gallery with air to 100 psi and then watch the radiator filler hole for bubbles. You will loose a lot of air from the bearings but if you have a reasonable source it may be enough to find the leaks. If you can isolate the head from the block so much the better.

Keep us advised, ask any questions.

Cheers,
GTM

As I'm trying to follow what your saying, where are you telling him to pressurize the oil system at?

 

[GTM]

...
if it changes colors inside the injector then you have a exhaust leak going into the cooling system, that would prove that either a) you have a cracked block (extremely rare) or b) you didnt do your head gasket right.
...

P.S. After fully reading this thread 100%, you say no smoke comes out, thats proof that your head gasket is sealing, but still do a block test at the least.

My experience tells me that the only thing left to mix the two would be the water/oil cooler that comes on all 92+ dsms.

You want to be careful with some of this and have the poster chasing down wrong paths. Because he has no smoke does not mean _a_ headgasket can't be blown. It is common to burn a passage between 2&3 and never leak a drop of water or have it show on a block check. In this case neither seems to be true since he wasn't loosing coolant, only adding oil.

I've named all the possibilities so it's not just limited to the oil cooler.
......................

As for your follow up question it's any place where you can find a proper fitting and and then attach a piece of air hose. Pull the oil switch or the sender as possibilities since these are metric pipe which are tapered threads.

The original oil feed banjo line from the head to turbo can be cut and a hose clamped on the tube. You can flair the end with a small round punch so the hose doesn't pop off.

Doesn't take a lot of imagination to find cross drilled plugs on the block or head. If they have been plugged with aluminum and staked one can be drilled and tapped for SAE pipe for plug or mechanical gauge later on.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[vsalas793]

[

The original oil feed banjo line from the head to turbo can be cut and a hose clamped on the tube. You can flair the end with a small round punch so the hose doesn't pop off.

Doesn't take a lot of imagination to find cross drilled plugs on the block or head. If they have been plugged with aluminum and staked one can be drilled and tapped for SAE pipe for plug or mechanical gauge later on.

Cheers,
GTM[/QUOTE]




I used the banjo bolt that tightenes down the feed line from head to turbo. i took that feed line off and used the banjo bolt and tightened it down on the head. that took care of that. no oil leaks there. i used ss line from turbo to oil filter housing to get fresh oil.

I bought a 1g oil cooler on the from the classifieds section for 40 bucks. im waiting for it to arrive. hopefully it will solve this problem.

im kind of discouraged though because i tried that bypass trick and know oil came out of the oil cooler fittings.

 

[elementalwindx]

I used the banjo bolt that tightenes down the feed line from head to turbo. i took that feed line off and used the banjo bolt and tightened it down on the head. that took care of that. no oil leaks there. i used ss line from turbo to oil filter housing to get fresh oil.

I bought a 1g oil cooler on the from the classifieds section for 40 bucks. im waiting for it to arrive. hopefully it will solve this problem.

im kind of discouraged though because i tried that bypass trick and know oil came out of the oil cooler fittings.

When you say 1g oil cooler do you mean the 90' air/air cooler that requires the 90' oil filter housing or the water/oil cooler that you can use on yours?

 

[GTM]

I used the banjo bolt that tightenes down the feed line from head to turbo. i took that feed line off and used the banjo bolt and tightened it down on the head. that took care of that. no oil leaks there. i used ss line from turbo to oil filter housing to get fresh oil.

I bought a 1g oil cooler on the from the classifieds section for 40 bucks. im waiting for it to arrive. hopefully it will solve this problem.

im kind of discouraged though because i tried that bypass trick and know oil came out of the oil cooler fittings.

I was saying that if you had plugged the original oil feed from the block which has a check valve and metering orfice then you can air pressure check the head only using a section of the original oiler. You will have air loss at cam bearings and hydraulic lash adjusters but if you have a head crack from an oil passage into a cooling passage you would see bubbles in the cooling system. With the original feed plugged you can check the block for leaks with a metric pipe nipple in the oil sender or switch when the cooler oil supply is blocked. You will have air loss at rods, mains, and through the oil pump.
........................

A complete 1G oil cooler will include an adapter at the filter mount, hoses and a heat exchanger which uses ram air across what looks similar to a heater core or small radiator. It may include a small thermostat which does not allow oil to pass through the cooler when the air temps are cold.

..............................

Actually you should be rejoycing for this oil cooler leak by far will be the least expensive of any repairs. If you are able to properly plug the water cooler lines you can drive the car carefully. REMEMBER when I say carefully it is because as the oil pressure leaks through it will reach normal pressures of 15-90psi so even fuel line hose won't support this. You could try pinching the tubing off on your leaking unit or filling it with JB Weld since it's history.

Inspite of all the other outside influences we have seemingly solved this in under 20 posts.

Sorry you are down in the dumps but you also must be relieved that you don't have to pull the engine down.

Keep us advised if you have problems or questions.

Cheers,
GTM