off time?

[TC Mueller]

How can you tell if your timing is off? I started my car yesterday and I had a lot of vibration. So much that it shook my exhuast off of a hanger under my car. Before while it was cold when it would start I would get a high pitch sqeak. Im afraid to rev it up over 3k because it shakes so much. What could be the problem here?

 

[TC Mueller]

Mounts should be alright, I recently replaced them with some poly ones. But there broken in so its not like im getting the vibartion from new mounts. The car idles pretty normally actually, well from what im used too because it idles like its cammed but it did that before the vibration. I think its because im running a 255 w/o an fpr. As far as the belt goes, thats what im concerned about because if it is my timing belt, could that cause the car to go out of time like within a few days? (keep in mind that i havnt driven the car with the sqeaky belt)

 

[Cs4g63]

Its possible that the balance shafts are out of phase with the rest of the timing assembly.

 

[TC Mueller]

How would I go about finding out if that is the problem?

 

[dsm-onster]

How can you tell if your timing is off? I started my car yesterday and I had a lot of vibration. So much that it shook my exhuast off of a hanger under my car. Before while it was cold when it would start I would get a high pitch sqeak. Im afraid to rev it up over 3k because it shakes so much. What could be the problem here?

Do you know how to check your cam timing?

Bring the crank to TDC. The cam gear inner marks should be beside each other and the outer marks should be opposite. All four should be in a straight line w/ the cam gear bolts. Use a ruler or a string to verify they are straight in line w/ the center of the bolts. The cam keys (dowels) will be up.

To check your balance shaft timing you have to pull off the timing cover. If you do this, check your BS belt too. As they dry rot and eat timing belts . Maybe you dodged a bullet and the BS belt broke but didn't take out the timing belt and valves in the process.

 

[Cs4g63]

The balance shaft being out of phase means that it is turned 180 from where it should be. The timing mark will still line up but the counterweight on the balance shaft will be in the wrong position. When this happens it will cause your engine to vibrate more than it would if you didnt have the balance shafts at all. I know because when I first got my FWD it had the same problem.

This is a quote from the VFAQ for the timing belt install.

Remove the balance shaft plug bolt (Figure 12c) on the rear side of the cylinder block and insert a Phillips screwdriver through the hole. (The balance shaft plug is a bolt a couple of inches above the oilpan, about dead center driver-to-passenger side. It's a bolt on a flat machined surface that doesn't seem to belong there, because it isn't bolting anything down)

The balance shaft is in the correct position if the screwdriver can be inserted at least 60 mm (2.4 in.). If the inserted depth is less than this only 20-25 mm (.8-1.0 in.), the oil pump sprocket must be rotated one full turn and timing marks realigned. Recheck the balance shaft position using the screwdriver to ensure that it can be inserted 60 mm (2.4 in.) or more. Keep the screwdriver inserted until timing belt installation is complete (Figure 13).

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NOTE that there is an easier way to do this. Simply rotate the mark on the oil pump sprocket until it is pointing straight up, and let it go. If the sprocket rotates towards (counterclockwise) the timing mark on the engine, the oil pump sprocket is aligned correctly. If it rotates away (clockwise) from the mark, spin the sprocket a full turn and test again, and it should properly rotate towards the mark now. Now line the mark on the sprocket back up with the mark on the engine. This avoids having to remove the rear access bolt entirely.
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Caution: MAKE SURE THE BALANCE SHAFT IS PROPERLY POSITIONED. It is possible for the oil pump sprocket timing marks to be properly aligned, and have the balance shaft out of phase. This could result in a SEVERE engine vibration.

 

[TC Mueller]

I had a tough time understanding what you guys are saying but I think I have the idea now. Im going to take a look at it today and most likely take pictures to give you guys a better idea of whats going on. Thanks guys.

 

[TC Mueller]

I did a test yesterday, and if you by chance read my thread before this, I had a clutch problem where when I push in my clutch my car bogs out and dies. Well yesterday I figured out that when I push in my clutch and rev there is no vibration. I dont understand whats happening.

 

[BUCK]

That's sounds EXACTLY like a hunk of your Clutch is GONE & therefore unbalanced & hence when it;s engaged with Flywheel & spinning it imparts a helluva vibration - Good news is that your Motor is obviously sound enough to toast a Clutch (with your help of course) - Good Luck

 

[TC Mueller]

So should I replace the clutch then? Because that doesnt make any sense, granted I did get the clutch used from a buddy, but it looked like it had a lot of life left, he only ran it for 2000 miles on his old set up and then upgraded to a 2900. And if I couldnt drive I could see this happening, but I can. And I didnt even launch on this clutch.

 

[fuzzydoodle]

Question on the timing question. Car was running fine (idle, started fine, light load running, ect.) except for a boost leak problem (cuts out when getting into boost) got some silicone couplers with reducing sizes to fix that problem, while doing that installed a header. Now it wont start checked time an got this although opposite exhaust is where intake is and vise versa when at 5 deg. from tdc. Wtf? Could it have jumped when cutting out due to the boost leak or what? Only thing I did was park it and install parts @ that time it was starting fine.

 

[steve]

Now it wont start checked time an got this although opposite exhaust is where intake is and vise versa when at 5 deg. from tdc.

If that's what your cams look like and your Crank is at 5* BTDC you have jumped a few teeth (and/or your off one tooth and the harmonic dampner has slipped throwing off your timing mark)
Please pull the plug in cylinder 1 and find TDC, check the harmonic dampner mark against the front cover and take a new picture of the cam sprockets. (nice job getting a picture with miminal parallax )

Without knowing that the crank is at TDC the pictures of the Cams doesn't tell us much.

Steve

 

[fuzzydoodle]

Ok These are from 5 deg. before

 

[fuzzydoodle]

Sorry didnt know how to split them up.
But this is exactly TDC.
The first time i tried to start it turned over then started for a sec stumbled then died I immediatly checked timing and found that. Dont think I did damage to any valves....I hope.
Found TDC with screwdriver through spark hole then rotated back an forth to make sure of exact location.

 

[steve]

But this is exactly TDC.
The first time i tried to start it turned over then started for a sec stumbled then died I immediatly checked timing and found that. Dont think I did damage to any valves....I hope.

So the intake cam is a tooth advanced. That also makes the ignition timing advanced. Can's say if the oil pump is also advanced.

When was the timing belt changed last and who did the work. Do you know what parts were also changed?

What happens if you turn the engine over by hand, does it line up the same?

Steve

 

[fuzzydoodle]

Timing belt changed about 8 months ago as well as, crank sensor, tensioner, camshaft seals, crankshaft seals. That was turning it by hand not gonna crank with key in fear of starting (even though it dies) an if not already ruin valves.

 

[dsm-onster]

I agree. don't run it as the timing may continue to get worse (jumping more teeth). I've never heard of the intake cam ADVANCING when jumping, though. USUALLY the belt jumps over the cam teeth which means that the cam gears retard. So, in your case, I strongly suspect shoddy mechanic work.

I bought my car w/ a botched timing belt job. (owner gave up he couldn't get it to run right). I drove it for 200 miles back to my house and checked timing my intake was advanced like your intake cam gear displayed AND my exhaust cam was retarded 1 whole tooth (the mechanic obviously was retared one whole tooth too ).

Point? Bad mechanic. But, probably, your valves arn't bent. Don't start it until you get the timing correct and at least inspect the rest of the timing assembly (belt tensioner, balance shaft belt, balance shaft timing, etc.)

 

[fuzzydoodle]

Yeah thats what I thought, but when it was timed and all that work was done it was pretty much all stock. I called and the guy said he didnt think anything they did could have caused that, with that being said if I were to roll it back in there an he seen all the mods that are done, I dont think he would go for it. So I guess I just got to tear in an get it done myself. I just got around to towing it to my garage so I can really work on it but thanks for all the input.