non-blue top factory 450cc injector?

[99gst_racer]

I'm assuming these are 450's because it says "MDL 450" on the side...? Anybody know the difference between these are the blue-top 450s? These are factory, right?

 

[91stocker]

Aren't those the factory 2g 450's that have the duel spray pattern? Where as the 1g 450's have a single stream.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Blue's are 1g's and , black is 2g's..1g's are also single spray, and 2gs are dual spray..

^ Beat me to it...

 

[snowborder714]

Glad to see you learned, Bud!

2g's had black top 450's with a dual spray pattern (one spray for each valve). That's what those are.

 

[99gst_racer]

Thanks for the info, gents. I think this is the first time I've ever paid any attention to the factory 2G black-tops. Still learning something new every day.


One more question. Are these 100% interchangeable with the blue tops?

 

[Bud92gsx]

Glad to see you learned, Bud!

2g's had black top 450's with a dual spray pattern (one spray for each valve). That's what those are.

I can't have people kick me in the ass and say this is the correct info, without eventually learning it for myself can I?

Thanks for the info, gents. I think this is the first time I've ever paid any attention to the factory 2G black-tops. Still learning something new every day.

One more question. Are these 100% interchangeable with the blue tops?

A mod still learning..See I knew we all still had things to learn..That's what I like to see..

They are interchangable yes..There the same injector minus the spray valve's..I would run all black or all blue tops just so the sprays match up..Just to have all that are the same ...

 

[snowborder714]

Yes they are Paul.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/403780-mixing-injectors.html#post152598015

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Paul, keep in mind that from 1g-2g the fuel pressure was changed. Both are rated at 450, but at different fuel pressures.

 

[snowborder714]

But both blue and black top injectors are rated at 450cc at 43.5psi, at least according to the link that's in the link I posted above.

 

[99gst_racer]

Thanks again guys.

 

[Bud92gsx]

I could have sworn Brian that 1g's had two different fuel pressures..Auto with 390's 43 ish, and manual 450's 38ish..If I had a fuel pressure gauge I would actually check both, and have the right info for you right now....

But I am certain they did not change the fuel pressures on the 2g's because the 2g's came with all the same stuff..Unlike the diference between the 1g auto and manual..Where cams and injectors are different between the two..Which I also thought they changed the fuel pressures on the two, because of the different parts..

 

[snowborder714]

You are correct on the fuel pressure differences. But from the link I provided you before to the one wiki page (find it in the link I posted above), it shows both blue and black tops flow the same for some reason. A fuel pressure change just means the 1g's with the blue tops weren't flowing 450cc at 43.5psi, but actually less than that.

But I also know that plenty of people have run blue tops in their 2g without any issues, so I know it works just fine.

 

[Bud92gsx]

So what you are actually saying is the 450's on the 1g's are only flowing 450 at 43psi..And not at the stock 38ish?
So really mitsubishi should have put the 43psi fpr on both cars?

And only the 390's were actually only flowing what they should because they were at the right pressure?

That's actually really funny that they didn't figure that out..

 

[snowborder714]

Well, there's no right/wrong fuel pressure - just whatever the FSM states. But flowing 450cc injectors at 43.5psi as well as 38 psi will yield two different "sizes". So if the blues do indeed flow 450cc at 43.5psi, then on a 1g they're flowing less than 450cc (I can't come up with the calculation off the top of my head, sorry). Same deal with people running a 16g on stock injectors who turn up the base fuel pressure to get more flow.

Hopefully I'm thinking through this properly - someone correct me if I'm wrong though.

I don't know why they did it. I can't remember if I've read anything about the reasoning or not.

 

[Bud92gsx]

That's exactly that I was thinking..If it's only flowing 450 at 43psi..That would mean its flowing much less at 38psi..

So i just looked at the wally calculators, and could not find the injector calculator..So I googgled it and got the RC injector calculator..

There saying it flows the same at both pressures, but Why doesn't that sound right?

RC Fuel Injection


Ohh BTW, so I don't have to pm the both of you..Thank you for the rep..

 

[99gst_racer]

Sounds correct to me, Brian.

This is also why PTE injectors are all flow rated a bit higher than their competitors - because they use flow ratings for a slightly higher base fuel pressure than the rest. For example a PTE 680cc VS an FIC 650cc.

 

[snowborder714]

Ah, I didn't scroll down far enough to find the calculator on that page that I needed.

The settings I used:
Old pressure - 43.5psi
New pressure - 38psi
Old flow rate - 450cc

So new flow rate is 420.59cc

 

[Bud92gsx]

Ahhhhh I did it wrong..That's why It came out the same..

 

[steve]

The FSM says the nominal 1G manual fuel pressure is 36.3 psi so I get about 411cc when I do the math.

 

[Bud92gsx]

..Now that makes it even more funny..

 

[snowborder714]

Yup, I was too lazy to look up the actual spec - thanks for the specifics, Steve.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Im not sure of the top my head but I beleave the 2g "blacktops" have slightly less deadtime then the 1g "bluetops" IIRC

 

[steve]

Im not sure of the top my head but I beleave the 2g "blacktops" have slightly less deadtime then the 1g "bluetops" IIRC

If that's true it can't be much less. I don't remember seeing a significant change in the 2G deadtime table or a noticeable difference in fuel trims running them.

The big change is in the pintle caps, the two holes work to direct the spray from the single pintle into two cones directed at each of the valves.