No one is going to believe this

[TurboDSM90]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
>A) your compression is higher than theirs,

Not really, I am using 8.5:1 pistons which give me 175psi of compression. We were all in the same ballpark. I am also pretty sure that they both used HKS cams.

>B) your running more boost than them or spooling faster

We all had around 27-30psi. Spool-up is irrelevent whe you are speaking of top end torque.

>C) The FRH intake mani moves the powerband too much,
>and to rapidly( that one came out of my ass)

Well... my point is that FRH does NOT move the powerband enough...

>D)your turbos built differently/different brand, etc., or

We all had 60/60-1 type Garrett turbos. My turbo is ball-baring and theirs had conventional bearings, but that mainly make the difference for spool-up. Which, again, is not as important when looking at the top end.


>E)your tunning is very very very well suited to your needs, as
>it should be on every dsm.

Well, we were all around 410-420hp, so those were similarally tuned cars. My and Brian's cars both used VPC/SAFC combo, Chad used RamChargers translator.

Anyway, I was just very suprised at how quickly their torque went away once they got above 6500rpm. That does not look good to me...

I know that this is not a conclusive test, but that was a first time where I saw a drastic difference, which I can mainly atribute to the intakes.

Leon
RR

wow, thank you for going in depth and correcting my assumptions. Its also nice of you to going into a little more detail about your setup, for some reason honda guys keep that stuff top secret....i know, DSMrs are a close community and thats always been a plus.

Thank you sir, and everone on this topic for posting, this has been very informative...

 

[turbobrian]

i use 8.5:1 2g pistons. last time i checked my compression was 165 across all 4. i was also surprised how our graphs fell off so fast. it took me some time to choose this intake manifold. it was between the frh and magnus. seeing a lot of dyno sheets between the two i decided to go with the frh because it also kept a good low end for my street driving, and looked like a nice design. seeing these charts before i bought it, i never saw any fall off like mine and chads. the magnus even looks smaller than the frh, and the runners are close to the same length. even with 272's and a turbo that loves to breathe in the top end. the car did produce 400awhp which was exactly what i was looking for. im not trying to set records or be a dyno king so for now i will keep it till i decide on my new engine and turbo setup for next season. i did however go 127.11 last week which also made me happy about my setup.

are there any other's out there making 400 awhp with around the same mods, and frh have a dyno sheet? i would love to compare

 

[allwheelTSI]

Originally posted by turbobrian
i use 8.5:1 2g pistons. last time i checked my compression was 165 across all 4. i was also surprised how our graphs fell off so fast. it took me some time to choose this intake manifold. it was between the frh and magnus. seeing a lot of dyno sheets between the two i decided to go with the frh because it also kept a good low end for my street driving, and looked like a nice design. seeing these charts before i bought it, i never saw any fall off like mine and chads. the magnus even looks smaller than the frh, and the runners are close to the same length. even with 272's and a turbo that loves to breathe in the top end. the car did produce 400awhp which was exactly what i was looking for. im not trying to set records or be a dyno king so for now i will keep it till i decide on my new engine and turbo setup for next season. i did however go 127.11 last week which also made me happy about my setup.

are there any other's out there making 400 awhp with around the same mods, and frh have a dyno sheet? i would love to compare

165? you must be running a pretty thick head gasket?

 

[turbobrian]

nope. i use a stock 4 layer. it has to be my rings i think. when i broke in the motor i was told to baby the car but from what i hear now i should have beat the snot out of it to seat them properly. its funny how all 4 are the same compression. i would think they would all be different if they were not seated properly. but i have not done a compression test on this last head i installed so maybe things have changed.

 

[powerdbydsm]

any one ever heard of this on any other venom intake manifolds??? this is the only one I have ever seen to crack like this. I have had mine for over ay ear now and not one issue. I am running 25 PSI and I have had it up to 30 PSI before.

I just think that if there is one defective manifold don't mean every venom manifold is bad, well unless there is a pattern of them doing this.

 

[entropy138]

Maybe the movie was hinting at somethign.... trying to get a message across to Venom about common problems

And we all thought it was BS

 

[powerdbydsm]

The customer support part is BS though.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by powerdbydsm
any one ever heard of this on any other venom intake manifolds??? this is the only one I have ever seen to crack like this.

I brought this up on NABR and 1 or 2 people had cracking issues although no where near as bad.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by powerdbydsm
The customer support part is BS though.

You're telling me.

 

[GRNDSM]

I will second that Venom’s customer support is terrible! That alone is worth staying away from them!!!

Having said that, other than warped sealing surface to the head, I have not had any problems with my intake. And I have taken it to 35psi…

Leon
RR

 

[Revolution]

Ok to my knowledge MAYBE not all manifolds were poorly welded , so I came up with a couple of reasons this could have happend and might continue to happen in the future.

All these manifolds have to be polished to give it that bling factor , but while doing this they also tend to polish right into the welds thus leaving it prone to crack.

When you are welding a sheetmetal intake like that, you need to use a higher grade steal ( or aluminum) rod for the welds ,(some shops dont).


Poor designs also attribute to this "bad" intake situation . How they are designed plays a huge role in lage , but most impotantly is how they deal with stress ( engine vibration, compression,etc).

To my knowledge venom doesent use that said (displayed) manifold on any of their race cars, they use a contemporary design (like magnus's) with silicone runners.I have witnessed one of their all motor civics which dident have the "venom" manifold they sell to the public, but rather one that looked like (magnus's) "just rounder" as do most of the pro drag cars are using.

In my opinion Dave was just the recipient of one manifold that was a part of a group of poorly made manifolds.Odds are if that happend to Dave im pretty shure somewhere there are 20 others complaining aswell .

This was very bad quality control on the part of venom.

But just out of quriosity ...... does venom have a talon or eclipse as one of their race cars ??? I have never seen one if they did .

And if they dident then why would you bother buying something from someone who doesent use it on our said cars?

My mentallity is if you arent racing ,and proving that your talon/eclipse (PART) is working for you at the track then your just a waste of time, and money,,,,,, that said go magnus all the way.

 

[GRNDSM]

To support your theory, anodized finish (especially hard coat) has just the opposite effect, it makes the welds slightly stronger! So there might be something to this.

Of course, if they were well welded in the first place, they wouldn’t need to rely on surface finish to support the welds.

I think that there is yet another important factor: motor movement! If your motor mounts are worn, you can put a lot of stress on the intake manifold, depending on your upper I/C pipe design. I know at least one other person who cracked the welds on this Venom intake due to this problem. But then, you can really blame the intake for this!

Leon
RR

 

[ITSME4G63]

Get a forrester, they are assembled not welded i believe.

 

[Revolution]

I could understand about your worn motor mounts and that being a reason for unwanted engine vibratin.

But how could your upper intercooler piping be putting stress on the intake manifold? I think you're silicone wrapping would probably come off first before causing a huge crack like that one.

 

[powerdbydsm]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
To support your theory, anodized finish (especially hard coat) has just the opposite effect, it makes the welds slightly stronger! So there might be something to this.

Of course, if they were well welded in the first place, they wouldn’t need to rely on surface finish to support the welds.

I think that there is yet another important factor: motor movement! If your motor mounts are worn, you can put a lot of stress on the intake manifold, depending on your upper I/C pipe design. I know at least one other person who cracked the welds on this Venom intake due to this problem. But then, you can really blame the intake for this!

Leon
RR

The polishing maye be the cuase cause I am running the venom manifold that is not polished and just painted, has never cracked or had any issues with it.

 

[GRNDSM]

Originally posted by Revolution
I could understand about your worn motor mounts and that being a reason for unwanted engine vibratin.

But how could your upper intercooler piping be putting stress on the intake manifold? I think you're silicone wrapping would probably come off first before causing a huge crack like that one.

Have you ever seen what happens to our motors under WOT? If you have stock motor mounts, the engine moved back toward the firewall as much as 1" (especially if motor mounts are worn).

Some of the best upper I/C pipes have very hard joints to minimize the possibility of blowing off. However, if you have hard joints and a moving motor, this can put tremendous amount of stress on your intake manifold.

That is why it is a good idea to use hard(er than sock) motor mounts.

Leon
RR

 

[dsmturboawd]

couldn't you just use these then?

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[GRNDSM]

I have... Everyone of those eventually failed... Where as a piece of truck radiator hose never failed me.

Besides, I do not have this problem. I am simply stating why some others experienced manifold failure.

But yet, that style of coupling will help you, as long as, motor mounts are not totally gone.

Leon
RR

 

[dsmturboawd]

i lub truck radiator hoses.

 

[dsmturboawd]

you in the right thread?

Mod Edit: off the of topic posts were deleted

If you guys want to talk about batteries, start another thread.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by Revolution
I could understand about your worn motor mounts and that being a reason for unwanted engine vibration.

Have you ever been in a car with Prothane motor mounts? I would say that urethane mounts have WAY more vibration. I have to recheck my bolts CONSTANTLY to make sure they didn’t rattle loose. Whereas the worn mounts will have a lot more engine movement but little to no vibration.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by Revolution
But just out of quriosity ...... does venom have a talon or eclipse as one of their race cars ??? I have never seen one if they did .

I think the sponsor a few guys. I think Rau and a few other guys used Venom at one point. They use to sell a squarish manifold that was the old style. But the “new style” is the same rounded one the racers use.

Originally posted by Revolution
My mentallity is if you arent racing ,and proving that your talon/eclipse (PART) is working for you at the track then your just a waste of time, and money,,,,,, that said go magnus all the way.

Marco is the man lets get that right out of the way. But I just like the larger plenum and runners of the Venom manifold.

 

[dsmturboawd]

i thought venom sold off all their race cars.

 

[bastarddsm]

instead of getting your intake welded you could just trade it for this baby

Mod Edit: Removed a link to a stupid ebay auction.

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