No one is going to believe this

[rdrkt]

I got the manifold off at lunch yesterday. When I pulled it off I found that the TB weld was cracked.

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The guy at Precision chassis said another weld was starting to crack so he redid that one along with everything else. I wasn’t there when he said it but taking a look at the manifold the side opposite of the TB had a hairline crack. So this means that EVERY weld on the plenum has cracked But now that is welded by someone that knows what they are doing hopefully all will be well.

 

[set3422]

I think if you brace the manifold like the stock ones, the manifold will be less proned to cracking. Don't know how can you find a good spot to brace the Venom. Good luck.

 

[GRNDSM]

I do not think that lack of bracing has anything to do with his type of failure! Especially if you look at his first failed weld. It failed because it could not tolerate the pressure. If you think about it, there are enormous forces that are trying to rip this intake apart at 30 psi. The thing is, that Venom should have designed it to withstand around 40-50psi and rated it at round 35psi…

They are now claming that it is only rated for 25psi. WFT! That is total BS, I have never heard of 25psi limit until Dave called them and said that he experienced problems at 30psi... I would have NEVER bought it had I known this in advance!

Leon
RR

 

[set3422]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
I do not think that lack of bracing has anything to do with his type of failure! Especially if you look at his first failed weld. It failed because it could not tolerate the pressure. If you think about it, there are enormous forces that are trying to rip this intake apart at 30 psi. The think is that Venom should have designed it to withstand around 40-50psi and rated it at round 35psi…

They are now claming that it is only rated for 25psi. WFT! That is total BS, I have never heard of 25psi limit until Dave called them and said that he experienced problems at 30psi... I would have NEVER bought it had I known this in advance!

Leon
RR

a couple metal plates bolted from the mani to the block/chassis wouldn't hurt....=). Well except for some cosmetic sacrifice on the engine bay.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
They are now claming that it is only rated for 25psi. WFT! That is total BS, I have never heard of 25psi limit until Dave called them and said that he experienced problems at 30psi... I would have NEVER bought it had I known this in advance!

I think its pure BS too. Im just gonna post my pics on EVERY DSM forum and then tell them what I did. If you don’t handle your customers they will handle you. I just wish I could get Terry Tate to visit their office.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by rdrkt

I think its pure BS too. Im just gonna post my pics on EVERY DSM forum and then tell them what I did. If you don’t handle your customers they will handle you.

Right On, F crap parts and BS venders. If you can prevent one person from being screwed, you're work is done.

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[hose101772]

Could have had a backfire.Happed along a site for engineering plastics,had a section on manifolds.Article went into laborious detail about burst pressures of manifolds.Made me think back to those old 911's with "pop" flap in the manifold that went back into the airbox.

Anyway,what ever happened -it still sucks.I'd be pissed.

 

[hostile]

I dont see how tig welds could not hold pressure, practically all intercoolers are welded like that and they hold up fine.

Obviously they have something wrong with their welding.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by hostile
I dont see how tig welds could not hold pressure, practically all intercoolers are welded like that and they hold up fine.

Obviously they have something wrong with their welding.

I have seen intercoolers blow welds too but it all points back to crappy welding.

 

[Defiant]

I'm with the bad weld idea. You should be able to round out that assembly with an M-80 inside, and not affect the welds. Properly welded, the joint wouldn't come apart where the original parts were put together because that seam would be _gone_ -you'd break at the base of the weld bead, where it melts into to the parent metal. It looks like, despite the fairly good-looking bead, there's no damned penetration there. The weld bead is sitting on top of the parent metal like cake icing. Just not quite as strong.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

dude u kno your the man when u crack the welds on your intake mani

 

[KGB Pilot125]

Originally posted by Defiant
I'm with the bad weld idea. You should be able to round out that assembly with an M-80 inside, and not affect the welds. Properly welded, the joint wouldn't come apart where the original parts were put together because that seam would be _gone_ -you'd break at the base of the weld bead, where it melts into to the parent metal. It looks like, despite the fairly good-looking bead, there's no damned penetration there. The weld bead is sitting on top of the parent metal like cake icing. Just not quite as strong.

I wish I could find the article and the pics... so I will go from memory this magazazine was talking to the 2 guys that weld all the exhaust for williams F1 team and they were showing some of the welds and how strong they were and they showed this exhaust form the younger shumacher and the exhaust was ripped open in a few places but it wasnt anywhere where the guy had welded. those welds should be stronger than the metal around it. you need to call up a few places that specialize in welding IC and such and get another opnion. and venom should be willing to take better care of you than this. after all if it wasnt for people trying to go faster they wouldnt be in business.

josh

 

[doug]

Originally posted by rdrkt
When he got back on he said that he confirmed it with his manager they were designed for more than 25lbs so no warranty no nothing. Just a resounding #### you.

Legally, this is total BS. According to product liability laws, manufacturers are required to allow for what is called "foreseeable misuse". Obviously, running the piece a mere 5 PSI past the "recommended" rating could be foreseeable misuse (or not even misuse at all, IMO) and if you were to take them to court, there's little doubt you'd win, I would think (I'm not an attorney, but I deal with this kind of stuff on the job). I don't know if you'd want to do that since the monetary values in question are small, but I thought I'd bring it up. I just got back from a conference where we discussed these kinds of things and it seemed timely.

 

[KGB Pilot125]

so what ever happened with this? any updates?

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by KGB Pilot125
so what ever happened with this? any updates?

Well I took it over to the local chassis shop the day I got it off and they redid everything for me for about 50 bucks. Between doing that and eliminating the IAC off the TB my idle is FANTASTIC now. It idles like a real car. I havent had anymore issues but I haven’t gotten to drive it a lot since then.

 

[GrocMax]

You should see the manifold Marco had do a nitrous backfire on the dyno. Twice. Looked like a photoshopped blend of a Magnus intake and Dizzie Gillespie's cheeks

 

[greyforestgst]

thats pretty shitty man

 

[TurboDSM90]

thank you for posting this...you have stopped me from considering a venom intake manifold as an option.


Question about the intake mani, is it aluminum? I noticed tig weld, and just wanted to double check....thanks in advance.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by turbodsm90
thank you for posting this...you have stopped me from considering a venom intake manifold as an option.


Question about the intake mani, is it aluminum? I noticed tig weld, and just wanted to double check....thanks in advance.

Well that is what us “wisemen” are here for. To help you guys from making the same mistakes we did. And yes its Aluminum.

 

[GRNDSM]

>Question about the intake mani, is it aluminum? I noticed tig weld, and
>just wanted to double check....thanks in advance.

It is aluminum and it is TIG welded. The welds actually look pretty good from the outside, but did not have deep enough weld penetration on Dave’s intake. I am worried about my intake, but so far it seems OK and I have pressure tested it to over 35psi.

Overall, I do not know what to think of this intake… I still think that it is one of the best top end intakes available for DSMs, but their customer “disservice” and Dave’s experience makes me not to spend any money with them or recommend their product.

So if you can find one their used units and can pressure test it to 35-40psi, it might not be a bad option for the right price.

Leon
RR

 

[rdrkt]

Wes’s hasn’t broke yet (knock on wood) He also doesn’t run poly motor mounts. I personally think its BS to have to reweld a 600+ dollar manifold. Even if the welding only costs 50 bucks. I have always said by the time you are calling customer service you are screwed anyway. So I wasn’t expecting too much. Venom did disappoint me even though I had really low expectations to begin with.

In another post somewhere someone said that ANY well designed intake manifold is a HUGE benefit over stock and they are right. Even on a car like Leon’s or mine there MIGHT be 15-25 hp difference between the Fosters, Venom, Magnus, BJ’s etc. I just don’t think its worth having to jump through these hoops. Go with something that you know will work for you like the Magnus.

 

[GRNDSM]

Well this isn’t a definitive test, but tell me what you think. We had a dyno day where three DSMs made over 400hp:

http://www.ktrperformance.com/gallery/Events/Mitsu03/graphs_0903.htm

Compare the top end of my car vs. Chad and Brian. They both had Forester intakes... Now, Chad’s RPM signal was off, but you can still see how much his torque drops on the top end! And it is even MORE evident on Brian’s car.

Otherwise, we had roughly the same turbos and other mods.

BTW this is one of those DynoDynamics machines that Vishnu uses, so all the numbers are low. You need to add around 18% to get closer to DynoJet numbers. And my overall power was down, something happened on the top end where my HP cure flattened. My car does not usually do that. But still event with this unusual drop, my top end is much better!

Leon
RR

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by GrocMax
You should see the manifold Marco had do a nitrous backfire on the dyno. Twice. Looked like a photoshopped blend of a Magnus intake and Dizzie Gillespie's cheeks

Ah, but did it crack a weld?

 

[TurboDSM90]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
Well this isn’t a definitive test, but tell me what you think. We had a dyno day where three DSMs made over 400hp:

http://www.ktrperformance.com/gallery/Events/Mitsu03/graphs_0903.htm

Compare the top end of my car vs. Chad and Brian. They both had Forester intakes... Now, Chad’s RPM signal was off, but you can still see how much his torque drops on the top end! And it is even MORE evident on Brian’s car.

Otherwise, we had roughly the same turbos and other mods.

BTW this is one of those DynoDynamics machines that Vishnu uses, so all the numbers are low. You need to add around 18% to get closer to DynoJet numbers. And my overall power was down, something happened on the top end where my HP cure flattened. My car does not usually do that. But still event with this unusual drop, my top end is much better!

Leon
RR

Leon, your powerband is still purrrrrrrrrrrrrty(pretty). I like those curves almost as much as J Lo's.

Something isnt similar though, either A) your compression is higher than theirs, B) your running more boost than them or spooling faster, C) The FRH intake mani moves the powerband too much, and to rapidly( that one came out of my ass) D)your turbos built differently/different brand, etc., or E)your tunning is very very very well suited to your needs, as it should be on every dsm.

Please choose wisely....

Anywho, congrats on the 10 sec timeslip, im shooting for one in the stock bottom end(6 bolt of course).

 

[GRNDSM]

>A) your compression is higher than theirs,

Not really, I am using 8.5:1 pistons which give me 175psi of compression. We were all in the same ballpark. I am also pretty sure that they both used HKS cams.

>B) your running more boost than them or spooling faster

We all had around 27-30psi. Spool-up is irrelevent whe you are speaking of top end torque.

>C) The FRH intake mani moves the powerband too much,
>and to rapidly( that one came out of my ass)

Well... my point is that FRH does NOT move the powerband enough...

>D)your turbos built differently/different brand, etc., or

We all had 60/60-1 type Garrett turbos. My turbo is ball-baring and theirs had conventional bearings, but that mainly make the difference for spool-up. Which, again, is not as important when looking at the top end.


>E)your tunning is very very very well suited to your needs, as
>it should be on every dsm.

Well, we were all around 410-420hp, so those were similarally tuned cars. My and Brian's cars both used VPC/SAFC combo, Chad used RamChargers translator.

Anyway, I was just very suprised at how quickly their torque went away once they got above 6500rpm. That does not look good to me...

I know that this is not a conclusive test, but that was a first time where I saw a drastic difference, which I can mainly atribute to the intakes.

Leon
RR