no cat?

[flinguist]

i guess im a asshole then

Me too!

 

[Invizible Lite]

we made it to four pages !! yes!

 

[MattnGsx]

My head hurts...

Must be all that CO and HC :laugh: (sorry I had to do it, just my since of humor)

I think everyone has some what of a point so far yours makes the most since... THough still I have no cat!

-Matt

 

[WhiteCloud]

Hey, I'm not expecting to change the minds of all the guys on this site. Some people are going to run without a cat even though they realize what my point is. I already mentioned, for track-run purposes I understand not having a cat for performance reasons. But let me stress once more:

It is daily driving without a cat that is the most harmful

You all will do what you want anyway. I just hope you believe me when I tell you that no matter how small one person's impact is, the sum total of every performance enthusiast's impact can make a difference. So if you don't take your car to the track but once a year, throw your cat back on. If you never go to the track, throw your cat back on. If you feel like being a considerate and unselfish, law-abiding citizen, throw your cat back on!

This is for our children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren, and I hope to have a lot of them!

 

[StarDiamond]

Not to be a dick or anything but last weekend i went to a huge car show w/ my parents we have a few old cars and i think there where about 11 thousand cars. ALL pre 1950 if you seem so worry about are cars 4 cyl RICE engines as they would call them maybe you should take up your issue with the old fokes that are running huge v8's guzzling gas every second. I know are car is 440 and it has about 3-1/2 exhaust straight back and gets prob on a good day 8 miles to the gallon. I think your issue with are 4 cyl cars and low emissions now then back then i think you are barking up a wrong tree at a pointless issue.

 

[NosLaser]

All of this will go away as soon as the profit driven and greedy oil companies give up the patents to Hydrogen powered cars. Hydrogen power is gonna be a Godsend. They make more power, have virtually no emissions, but the problem is the oil companies have bought up all the patents and are holding on to them to delay the process because they stand to lose huge money as soon as Hydrogen powered cars become a mass produced product.

If you look hard enough, you can find a problem with anything. Make your choices, and try to keep other people's best interest in mind as well. If you choose to run without a cat, don't be an asshole and say ignorant things like 'f*ck the environment!' Recognize the choice you have made, and live with it. I personally run without cats, but I don't go around telling people how proud I am to do so. Some of you really need to think before you speak, on both sides of this equation.

Regards,

 

[Invizible Lite]

good point NosLaser...modern economics...do whats best for yourself and everyone else around you...and live with it

 

[flinguist]

Hey, I'm not expecting to change the minds of all the guys on this site. Some people are going to run without a cat even though they realize what my point is. I already mentioned, for track-run purposes I understand not having a cat for performance reasons. But let me stress once more:

It is daily driving without a cat that is the most harmful

You all will do what you want anyway. I just hope you believe me when I tell you that no matter how small one person's impact is, the sum total of every performance enthusiast's impact can make a difference. So if you don't take your car to the track but once a year, throw your cat back on. If you never go to the track, throw your cat back on. If you feel like being a considerate and unselfish, law-abiding citizen, throw your cat back on!

This is for our children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren, and I hope to have a lot of them!

It doesn't matter because once China gets cranking (and it's starting to) we'll all be cooked by the greenhouse effect.

 

[4g64GST]

well I for one am greatfull for the people not running a cat.

because if it was not for them making that huge hole in the ozone

the space shuttle would never be able to get out.

 

[GSX0TIC]

Must be all that CO and HC :laugh: (sorry I had to do it, just my since of humor)

Hydrogen power is gonna be a Godsend

Amen brother. Shit's already been proven. Also the life expectancy of a hydrogen fuel cell is 50 years.

 

[cuttheduck]

well I for one am greatfull for the people not running a cat.

because if it was not for them making that huge hole in the ozone

the space shuttle would never be able to get out.

Sad part is that i know a girl that actually said something just like that. Needless to say her
"report on the ozone" for school wasn't so hot.

I'll also agree that DAILY DRIVING a 13-14 second car w/out a cat that doesn't see the track much seems a little immature IMHO. And hell, I 'm so far from an envirnomentalists its not even funny,,, you ever dump mercury down the sink before?? thats what i thought (In my defense i was really young)

 

[WhiteCloud]

It doesn't matter because once China gets cranking (and it's starting to) we'll all be cooked by the greenhouse effect.

Could someone please explain what this means ?

Lol, anyway, cuttheduck and NosLaser have the right idea, and I appreciate the way they respected both my opinion and the facts. Once again, we can't make anyone change if the law isn't enforced, but we can at least educate ourselves and do what we feel is right.

The number of old cars without cats is dropping every year as those cars break down and get off the road. Many classic and performance old cars are only Sunday drivers and show cars, so they are driven very little. That is also not the issue at hand.

Btw, I don't know much about the hydrogen cell power, but it does sound very exciting! But isn't one of the products H2O vapor? And wouldn't mass amounts of H2O vapor pumping out of everyone's exhaust cause some serious weather problems, a la The Day After Tomorrow? (YES, I AM JOKING ABOUT THE HOLLYWOOD COMPARISON!!!) Thoughts?

 

[Invizible Lite]

I got this from http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/001501.html


"The biggest problem with hydrogen as a means to reduce pollution is that it has to be produced from another energy source. But the most cost competitive energy sources are all forms of fossil fuels. The production of the hydrogen is not 100% efficient and producing it from fossil fuels produces pollution. The transportation and storage of the hydrogen also use substantial amounts of energy.

Hydrogen is also more difficult to store and transport and takes up much more space than liquid hydrocarbon fuels. It is not the only conceivable approach to pursue for reducing net pollution from vehicles for the purpose of reducing green house gasses. Another approach to reduce the net production of green house gasses would be to develop a light-driven chemical process that would fix carbon out of atmospheric carbon dioxide to make hydrocarbon fuels. Or if cheap photovoltaic solar cells could be developed then another approach would be to use electricity from solar cells to drive the chemical process to fix carbon from carbon dioxide. Effectively gasoline would be generated from solar power. Then the gasoline could be burned in cars. This artificial carbon cycle would eliminate the net addition of carbon dioxide gas to the atmosphere."


...novel idea

 

[dsm4life]

im not running a cat. In fact she is sleeping in the basement until that once a year check up comes around.

 

[MADSPEED]

I have a 3" Pacesetter DP (really nice looking) connected to a 3" custom catback with a straight through muffler and it sounds great. Deep nice sound. Sounds tuffer than the bosal setup I had on my old mx6 v6

 

[trapspeed]

I'm running no cat either. 3" DP.

But what exactly does the cat clean out?

 

[kpt4321]

If you're cruising down the highway, without a cat, you're burning less fuel than if you had a cat.

...and how do you figure this?

Do you understand pumping efficiency? Don't bother answering, because the correct answer is obviously no.

The removal of exhaust restrictions (such as a catalytic convertor) increases your pumping efficiency, and therefore lowers the amount of air and fuel that need to be combusted in order to achieve a net wheel horsepower.

EnigmaMan is right.

This is because whenever the Stoichiometric(sp?)Ratio aka 14.7 part air and 1 part C8H15(gasoline) is not at that ratio, you get an incomplete burn which then gives you CO and HC.

Not necessarily, it depends what your A/F ratio is. Running leaner than 14.7:1 isn't going to hurt.

Anyways....I'd prefer to run a HF Cat because it will reduce the restriction over the stock cat, but still will do what any cat does...attempt to burn what unburnt gases are left. Which should allow you to pass emissions.

I love the people who say that it's bad to run without a cat, and then run a high flow cat. I'll make fun of them some more in my next post.

OH BTW...running without a cat is illegal. But shit do what you want...In the end it's your choice.

If you care about legality, you'd better put your car back to stock, and install only some 400 dollar CARB legal intake, and a 1000 dollar CARB legal exhaust. No SAFC, no DSMLink, no bigger turbo, no bigger injectors, no intercooler upgrade... you know, all of that is illegal too.

Talking about how a cat is a legal obligation while you own a modified car is like preaching about spousal abuse while you whip your wife.

My head hurts...

Stupidity hurts.

 

[kpt4321]

I'm bummin' that I missed this post until now, but oh well. I still get to have my fun.

I find it absolutely hilarious when people who drive any kind of vehicle powered by the combustion of fossil fuels complain about how you should run a cat. Let's think about this on a scale of pollution, shall we? The scale goes from 0 to 10, with 0 being no pollution, and 10 being a very high pollution source, like a race car. For now, we will only talk about pollution that is the byproduct of combustion, but I'll get back to other types.

If you drive a car, you are instantly thrown into the realm of objects that pollute. Let's say a stock DSM is a level 5 pollutant. Now, what happens when you remove your cat? Oh crap, you suddenly go to a level 8 pollutant, which obviously means you are worse for the environment (these numbers are OBVIOUSLY not to scale).

But, let's think about things for a second. What you are saying is that it is ok to be a level 5 pollutant, but it is not ok to be a level 7, or a level 8 pollutant? Why is that? Why is a little bit ok, but a little more is not?

The amount of pollution given off by a car is directly proportional to the amount of combustion that takes place within it's engine; basically, the amount of power it produces and that amount of time it is driven. Therefore, a car that produces twice the power may produce approximately twice the pollution.

So, as such, a stock Honda Civic CX may pollute less without a cat, than a modded DSM with a cat. However, since you're some kind of over generalizing environmental douche that claims that "X is bad, Y is good," you didn't consider that.

Then, what about something like a Dodge Viper? Or, a Ferrari Enzo? Or a Buggatti Veryon? Those all make a ton more power, and also have exhausts that are tuned for higher performance (read: lower backpressure), so I can virtually guarantee that they will pollute more than a stock or modded DSM with a cat. However, they're still ok, right, because they happen to have a certain exhaust component with a name that begins with a C?

Then, let's think about things that pollute less. The government has a rating system, where new vehicles can be certified due to the degree to which they pollute, or more importantly the degree to which they do not pollute. If you care about reducing your pollution level of your DSM enough to leave a cat on it, why are you even driving a DSM? Why aren't you driving a Honda Insight, or a Toyoa Prius, which offer several times (and even magnitudes) less pollution than a comparable low emissions vehicle from the late 90's, and several magnitudes less pollution than a 1g DSM?

So, we have a Toyota Pruis, which is a level 1 pollutant, a DSM with a cat which is a level 6 pollutant, and a DSM without a cat which is alevel 9 pollutant. You're going to come in here and tell me that you are a better person than me because you pollute a little less, even though much safer alternatives are out there?

That's like saying you're a much better person that someone who beats their kids daily, because you only beat them a couple times a week. Who gives a crap, you both suck, and there is no appreciable difference between the two of you.

Not to mention that lowering passenger car production of waste gasses by several magnitudes will lower the total global pollution production by what... 0.5%?



Now, let's talk about he econd stupid thing that you said, which is just as funny. You commended people who used stock cats and high flow cats, and then, once again, chided those who ran a test pipe.

Please tell me why it is ok to install a high flow cat, which will increase your emissions but not as much as a test pipe does, but it is not ok to run a test pipe?

Is it ok to increase the amount of trash you throw out your window to 4 pieces per mile, but it's not ok to increase it to 6 or 8 pieces per mile?

If you're going to complain about the environment, an the pollution caused by cars, you damned well had better be driving something other than a modded DSM with a cat. I want to see you in an Insight or a crazyier hybrid car for long trips, and you'd better be on foot or on a bike (preferably a bike as it probably creates less pollution that a person travleing on foot) for any short trips to the local store. Your kids aren't getting picked up at school anymore, they're walking home.

It's so funny to be critisized by people doing the exact same thing as me, just because they think they are better because they do it marginally better.

In terms of pollution, a passenger vehicle's existance with or without a cat is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things. If running a cat makes you feel better because you're polluting slightly less than the rest of us, I fully support that decision. However, you sure as hell had better not even think about acting like you're better than us catless people again.

 

[DSMJim]

at KPT4321... If anybody else is looking for a kick in the nuts PM me, I know a guy... :laugh:

 

[bigfoot]

Anytime I try to run with my cat it just looks at me like I'm crazy and goes back to sleep. Why did I hope to find a serious discussion here? I guess my cats right, I must be crazy. :laugh:

 

[jake98gst]

Hydrogen power is gonna be a Godsend

Amen brother. Shit's already been proven. Also the life expectancy of a hydrogen fuel cell is 50 years.

No kidding. I can't wait until the tuner world shifts to Hydrogen power. Or until the day when I'm driving a 500hp h-powered turbo rotary (Rotaries are said to be especially good for hydrogen fuel because the engine is designed to where the intake region is completely seperated from the combustion region.)

Jake

 

[ninjai_ruken]

No kidding. I can't wait until the tuner world shifts to Hydrogen power. Or until the day when I'm driving a 500hp h-powered turbo rotary (Rotaries are said to be especially good for hydrogen fuel because the engine is designed to where the intake region is completely seperated from the combustion region.)

Jake

Im not trying to be a dick or anything but do you have any idea how the hydrogen cars even work? because its not the way your thinking.

 

[Turbo Monk3y]

while everyone else is running Tree hugger cars ill be flying past them with a real mans motor be it a v8 or my 4g63, and i can guarantee you one thing non of my vehicles will be running a cat. To those of you who think that cars actually pollute alot they are less than 10 percent of the destruction of the o-zone. A huge percent of it is Natural from Wildfires, and volcanos.

 

[jake98gst]

Im not trying to be a dick or anything but do you have any idea how the hydrogen cars even work? because its not the way your thinking.

Well then enlighten me. And I didn't make this shit up on my own; it was part of a research project I did on rotaries.

Jake

 

[ninjai_ruken]

The fuel cell holds the hydrogen, which can be in its solid, liquid, or gaseous state (depending on the fuel cell). “Instead of an electrochemical battery, the motor gets power from a fuel-cell unit” Electricity is produced by the electrons being stripped from hydrogen fuel, which is through a section of the fuel cell. The current that these electrons produce, runs the electric motor, which turns the wheels. “The hydrogen protons then combine with oxygen and electrons to form water.