Nitrous for the launch

[Car Cannibal]

Time to call Precision and get a 9.5" converter or a 10" like I run from Sinister Speed. You're missing out on an easy second in ET due to that converter not coming up enough for you.

It looked like he had a car on you from the start but did it stay like that the rest of the way?
If so, the converter totally lost that race for you and the next time you'd smoke him.

 

[TREV TEC]

converter is too tight, or motor is hurt. For that size turbo you need a converter that will go higher than 2000 RPM at 0 PSI. Are you sure the lockup isn't sticking?

Hughes told me that removed the lockup. I got it spragless so they couldnt put the lockup back in. I wasnt sure if I needed to do anything with the valves body or the electrical because it was missing.

He is talking made trash about you on ls1tech. Saying how you talk shit and spent 25K+ and he only spent like 5K.

This car is accually not mine, but a car I work on. The guy who owns it and the Trans Am guy are "buddies" I guess. The Trans Am guy knew it wasnt leaving good and wasnt suppose to use nitrous right away. So much for a freindly race with no shit talk. This is not a real expensive build. Stock intake manifold, Turbonetics cast manifold, BC cams, stock auto trans.

My car is the same build, accept its an AWD Mirage with a Precision PT71. You might recognize it better if it was still flat black. Its running a 1G trans so I dont have the option of a billet converter. So having Livans DSM as a test mule is really helping me before I get a converter for my car.

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We are gonna add a 100shot over the weekend and tune it at 40psi. We are gonna forget to mention that to the tran am guy the next race.

Good information would be to PM Lucas English or Jeff Bush and ask what they are using for a shot and how they tune the launch. Both very helpful and full of information

Lucas was in town last week and I spoke with him for a while. He just didnt have much knowledge on the converter I was running. They only run the Precision converters.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Hughes told me that removed the lockup. I got it spragless so they couldnt put the lockup back in. I wasnt sure if I needed to do anything with the valves body or the electrical because it was missing.

Converter too tight, or problem with the motor. As stated above. If you can't get over 2000 RPM at 0 PSI, you're not going anywhere fast, and adding more and more nitrous is just going to break something.

I'd send the converter back. Doubt they do many 2G converters, but never know. I've seen several incidents where Hughes somehow sent the wrong converter to the wrong people. Couple times with chevy converters and once with a 1G DSM converter. I guess they have some illiterate moron in their shipping department somewhere.

 

[Car Cannibal]

I think Lucas's comment says it all, fast 2gs are only running Precisions and they don't even know or care about restalled 11" converters.

If this car is mostly on the street, running Spragless and without the lockup clutch is really doing a number on the tranny clutches unless he's running 2 coolers. I'd hate to see his Summer tranny temps after even a half hour on the highway.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

I don't even get the point of spragless. It's one less thing to break, yes - but I can count on one hand how many times I've heard of it happening on a DSM. The lockups tend to stick and auto engage on the 2Gs, that's why it needs to be removed. The hughes converters are good, I've used them before in plenty of cars, but like I said above, I've had them box up and send the wrong one on more than one occasion. Wouldn't surprise me if the same happened to this guy.

 

[Car Cannibal]

I think companies lean towards Spragless for two reasons,
1) Remove a part that could fail at high HP and have to come back under warranty
2) Makes the converter really predictable, great for bracket racing at low ET

Not sure what the OPs customers car is intended for, but removing the clutches doesn't necessary have to happen, they're not engaged anyways but a single will eventually burn up if launched on at high temps (Spragless doesn't help) so IMO it's an even better reason to jump ship to Precision.

Precision literally has a stall they call, the Kiggly, my buddy got it and it was intended for NOS DSMs. But they have a stall that will guarantee to work. And get it with a Sprag to keep street temps lower so even if you ditch the 3 lock up clutches, it's still a winner over the Hughes.

BTW, how much is a Hughes spragless, clutchless, restalled 11" converter?

 

[TREV TEC]

We paid nearly $700 for it by the time it was shipped back.


For my car I have a 1G trans so this is my only option.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

We paid nearly $700 for it by the time it was shipped back.


For my car I have a 1G trans so this is my only option.

For a 1G I'd go with Car Cannibal's 10" converter guy.

but if I were you, I'd be sending that converter back to hughes for a double check. I may have missed it, but what's the details on the motor? head, cam, compression, intake, etc?

 

[TREV TEC]

For a 1G I'd go with Car Cannibal's 10" converter guy.

but if I were you, I'd be sending that converter back to hughes for a double check. I may have missed it, but what's the details on the motor? head, cam, compression, intake, etc?

Stock head
BC 280s, probably not helping either
Stock IM
9:1 Pistons

Anybody in here running Car canibals 10"??

So now the bolt holes on the Kiggly Flex plate are stretched out. Thats pretty dumb.

 

[Car Cannibal]

Does the $700 for the restalled 11" include any extra labor for the sprag to be deleted?

Well for the 1G's, the only option IMO is the custom 10" I run from Sinister Speed. Recently a 1G with a GT4202 went from 2400rpm on the restalled 11" to 3100rpm on the 10" and it was probably cheaper than his 11". That 10" converter was the max stall, which mine isn't, but 700rpm is a ton on that monster turbo and is currently the only high stall converter since Precision left us years ago.

But for 2G's, Precision all the way unless you can't afford it, then go with the Sinister 2G 10" they offer.

BTW, anyone else running 7/16 bolts in their converters?

 

[GDNF2ET]

Recently a 1G with a GT4202 went from 2400rpm on the restalled 11" to 3100rpm on the 10"

In all fairness, it be great to have another opinion on this 10" converter...
Is it too much to ask for THIS person's car details and input ?

 

[TREV TEC]

BTW, anyone else running 7/16 bolts in their converters?

The bolts on the converter came loose and hogged out the Kiggly flex plate.

Now Im not sure if they got hogged out which in turn made the bolts come loose, or if the bolts came loose and then the shifting hogged the holes out.

I could use a little bit longer bolt if anything. Anybody know of a car I could get them from?? Maybe even a metric ARP bolt??

 

[CFeclipse]

......

 

[-red97rum-]

The bolts on the converter came loose and hogged out the Kiggly flex plate.

Now Im not sure if they got hogged out which in turn made the bolts come loose, or if the bolts came loose and then the shifting hogged the holes out.

I could use a little bit longer bolt if anything. Anybody know of a car I could get them from?? Maybe even a metric ARP bolt??

I'm running these ARP bolts, you have to buy 2 packs, but you'll end up with 2 extra bolts. They are a tad bit too long so they had to be cut down a little.

ARP 230-7304 - ARP Torque Converter Bolts - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Here's what they really look like, the picture on Summit is wrong:

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[GDNF2ET]

The bolts on the converter came loose and hogged out the Kiggly flex plate.

Now Im not sure if they got hogged out which in turn made the bolts come loose, or if the bolts came loose and then the shifting hogged the holes out.

I could use a little bit longer bolt if anything. Anybody know of a car I could get them from?? Maybe even a metric ARP bolt??

Did you have the extra tabs welded to your converter to utilize all the Kiggly flexplate bolt holes ?

 

[TREV TEC]

I'm running these ARP bolts, you have to buy 2 packs, but you'll end up with 2 extra bolts. They are a tad bit too long so they had to be cut down a little.

ARP 230-7304 - ARP Torque Converter Bolts - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Here's what they really look like, the picture on Summit is wrong:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Did you have to cut the head down too?? Kind of apears that if the bolt head wasnt so flat it might hit something going around.

Did you have the extra tabs welded to your converter to utilize all the Kiggly flexplate bolt holes ?

I assumed those were for 1G or 2G converters, is this something you have done?

 

[1fastlaser]

I just pulled my car apart. On a Pats Converter restall it would flash to 2800 and sitting on it would get 3 3100. I ran the factory bolts, with red lock tite and never had a problem.

It definitely sounds like a converter issue. I seen factory converters stall higher then that. I was using a 40 shot and it would go right to 4-4500 and 10-12psi on a gt4294 JB with a 8 year old 8:5.1 wiseco piston motor.

To give you a idea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9LGtrSJjx0

I ran Pats converter for over a year, and its worked flawless. I have the n20 coming on at 2800, shutting off at 13psi. My 8 year old motor finally found a piston that didnt like me anymore, and lost all conpression in cylinder 3.

 

[GDNF2ET]

Did you have to cut the head down too?? Kind of apears that if the bolt head wasnt so flat it might hit something going around.

I assumed those were for 1G or 2G converters, is this something you have done?

The ARP head clears fine and I run dual flexplates..

The main benifit to running the Kiggly plate is to use the 8 mounting holes..Four more threaded tabs need to be welded to the converter...

 

[-red97rum-]

Did you have to cut the head down too?? Kind of apears that if the bolt head wasnt so flat it might hit something going around.

Nope, just the threaded portion. I also thought the head was going to be too big but i made sure to test fit them before I ran the car. I was paranoid because I read people saying not to cut down the bolts because they get too hot. But with a nut screwed onto it the heat transfers and it never gets really hot.. The little portion that you cut off gets hot but I was able to touch the bolt right aterwards and it was barely warm. I cleaned the threads in the converter and the bolts and added red loctite (blue bottle-high strength) when I torqued 'em down. I also ran the supra ARP flywheel bolts cut down when my car was a 5 speed. Ran 'em for a whole year trapping mid high 120's and they were perfect when i took them off. I'm actually running them with the auto as well but I bought a new set just in case.

 

[TREV TEC]

I just pulled my car apart. On a Pats Converter restall it would flash to 2800 and sitting on it would get 3 3100. I ran the factory bolts, with red lock tite and never had a problem.

It definitely sounds like a converter issue. I seen factory converters stall higher then that. I was using a 40 shot and it would go right to 4-4500 and 10-12psi on a gt4294 JB with a 8 year old 8:5.1 wiseco piston motor.

To give you a idea

YouTube - Weird Inc. vs ScreamingDsm.3gp

I ran Pats converter for over a year, and its worked flawless. I have the n20 coming on at 2800, shutting off at 13psi. My 8 year old motor finally found a piston that didnt like me anymore, and lost all conpression in cylinder 3.

Where can I find more info on "Pat's" Converter?

 

[1fastlaser]

Here you go. Give them a call and ask for Steve. He has my converter there now.

Welcome to Pat's Performance Converters!

 

[kp116]

I'm running these ARP bolts, you have to buy 2 packs, but you'll end up with 2 extra bolts. They are a tad bit too long so they had to be cut down a little.

ARP 230-7304 - ARP Torque Converter Bolts - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Here's what they really look like, the picture on Summit is wrong:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I am doing the same thing but I ordered torque converter bolts for a 700r4. They are about 1" long but come in a pack of 6.

 

[TREV TEC]

I am doing the same thing but I ordered torque converter bolts for a 700r4. They are about 1" long but come in a pack of 6.

The bolts in this pic are 10mm but 1.5 pitch, they need to be 1.25 pitch.

 

[burkgonzo]

The ARP head clears fine and I run dual flexplates..

The main benifit to running the Kiggly plate is to use the 8 mounting holes..Four more threaded tabs need to be welded to the converter...

Any pics of a converter done like that?

 

[-red97rum-]

The bolts in this pic are 10mm but 1.5 pitch, they need to be 1.25 pitch.

The flywheel bolts need to be a 1.25 pitch. These are the exact bolts I used for the flexplate to converter and they thread right in with no problems.